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Nature vs. Nurture - The Soul vs. Tabula Rasa? (Read 4557 times)
DocM
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Nature vs. Nurture - The Soul vs. Tabula Rasa?
Dec 2nd, 2009 at 10:09am
 
Some sociologists and scientists believe that we are the sum of our experiences.  Freud, and other psychologists looked toward childhood experiences as pivotal events that formed later neuroses and behaviours. 

Yet we know that we incarnate with a soul (at least many on this forum believe in that).  This presupposes that we are primarily mind (points of perception apart from the physical world).  Some afterlife theories have us reincarnating and wiping our memories just prior to incarnating.  This would leave us with certain potential tendencies for behaviours, without the knowledge of past lives. 

So the question arises, what contribution to our devlepment has the greatest impact:  nature (our inherent "soul state" so to speak that we come into the world with) or nurture (our life experiences, and circumstances we are exposed to)?

If we are blank slates (tabula rasa), then experience mostly shapes us.  If we have souls which drive our destiny, then no matter what situation we face, our soul will follow its natural loves and tendencies and continue to develop.  Swedenborg proposed that every soul has a unique driving love that it is bound to follow, but that while incarnate, the conscious mind could channel that love in a positive way, and make more progress than in the afterlife by learning in a "faster" pace.

My own take on things is that the soul comes into the world with its own loves and tendencies.  I've seen this in my children; my son (now 7) had very distinct habits, when he was a newborn that could not have been formed from any parent-child interactions.   Any parent can see with some inspection that this is so.  Babies, even newborns have dispositions and personalities.  For me, it has been born out in such a way, as I think of it as silly to think of us all as "blank slates."

A problem I have with those who favor nurture over nature is the idea that a person, to understand themselves must go through years of psychoanalysis, look at interactions with parents, family and friends in order to truly understand themself.  I know people who are elderly, who still claim that were it not for their parent favoring their brother or sister over them, they would have been happier and had better lives.  Some of these people have told me that they have to come to terms with their resentment of childhood trauma in order to be happy.

Maybe,  for them, there is some truth to that, but for me, I think it is an obsession that is counter-productive.  We live in the now.  To dwell on the nurture of the past (or lack thereof) is, to some extent to deny the present, and hold oneself back. 

M
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I Am Dude
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Re: Nature vs. Nurture - The Soul vs. Tabula Rasa?
Reply #1 - Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:23am
 
I agree.

I feel that they are both connected; that nurture is key in assisting an individual in bringing out their nature.  A child who is brought up well will be able to develop their true loves and passions(their nature) in a meaningful and selfless way and grow as a spiritual being far easier than a child who does not get adequate nurturing.
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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
 
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DocM
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Re: As a Follow up
Reply #2 - Dec 2nd, 2009 at 2:23pm
 
As  a follow up question, to all of you non-reincarnationists (those who don't believe in reincarnation), where do you think the soul was before it incarnated, or could your consciousness have come into being de novo, from scratch?
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Re: Nature vs. Nurture - The Soul vs. Tabula Rasa?
Reply #3 - Dec 2nd, 2009 at 2:55pm
 
I think all history is taking place at the same time and only appears to be history. I also think some come from other dimensions, if i can be allowed such a word, and are experiencing earth for the first time, but I think it's entirely possible that our greater I reincarnates over many episodes here, but really this is all a big play with a massive audience that likes to jump in once in awhile.
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Re: Nature vs. Nurture - The Soul vs. Tabula Rasa?
Reply #4 - Dec 2nd, 2009 at 4:06pm
 
I will be mostly lurking for a few months, but thought I'd post an experience that is relevant to DocM's thread.

Back in my grad student days, I was having a drink in a bar near Harvard Square and engaged a gal in conversation who ran the Day Care Center for the Harvard School of Education.  I had just read Robert Monroe's "Journeys Out of the Body" and was interested to hear whether the little children under her charge had any unusual paranormal experiences.
I was awestruck by what she shared.

One bright little boy (3 years old!) commented on nap time.  He said, "You know, during naptime all these kids fly around outsisde their bodies.  I know that I'm doing this, but they don't."  This gal asked the toddler, "Why don't they know they're  flying around the room?"  He replied, "Well, it's like a little mousy doesn't know that he's a mouse!"  I was astounded that a 3-year old could deduce that primitive animals are not self-conscious in the way we are.  The woman was curious to know if this toddler's revelations were in any way shaped by his parents' influence.  But when he discreetly asked them, they were outraged: "No!  And you'd better not be putting these silly New Age beliefs into my son's head!'  She rightly concluded, "OK, the boy isn't deriving these insights from his parents." 

Then the toddler said something more relevant to Matthew's thread; he told the woman: "You have a birthday tomorrow, don't you?"  She replied, "Yes, but how did you know?"  He replied, "Well, when I was in heaven before I was born, I was told the birthdays of the people who would be in my early life.  He then listed some of the birthdays of his relatives. 

This suggests not only the preexistence of the soul, but some sort of coordinated planning that involves the well-timed births of important people in this youngster's life.  I don't believe in astrology, but I do concede that this toddler's experience might be used in astrological apologetics.  And if there is no prebirth planning, how else can we explain Mozart's ability to compose a sophisticated piano concerto at age 5?

The Bible teaches the doctrine of the soul's preexistence, but not reincarnation.  The wording of Jeremiah's prophetic call is relevant here: "The word of the Lord came to me, saying, "Before I formed you in the womb, I KNEW YOU, before you were born, I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations (Jeremiah 1:5).""  The wording here seems to be claiming more than predistination; it seems to imply a preexistent soul involved in pre-brith planning.

The nature vs. nurture debate is unresolved, but is crucial to any discussion of pre-birth destiny or karma.  So it is appropriate that Matthew initiate a post on this subject here.

Don
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Re: Nature vs. Nurture - The Soul vs. Tabula Rasa?
Reply #5 - Dec 2nd, 2009 at 6:19pm
 
Cool story Don.

One night I had a memory of what it was like just before I incarnated into this life.  I didn't access information of who I was beforehand, but I had a mind that was basically adult, and I was very concerned about incarnating into this World. I told the spirit I was with that I'll miss him, and he (whoever he was) said, "I know."
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Re: Nature vs. Nurture - The Soul vs. Tabula Rasa?
Reply #6 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 1:40am
 
Based on my own experience of having borne two children, I am definitely on the nature side of the scale.  Each of them had clearly formed and very different personalities, despite having the same parents and home environment.  And nothing we did could have changed those personalities.

One of my favorite stories in this regard concerns a family I babysat for as a teenager.  Their first of three sons was a perfect child, quiet, always well-behaved, etc.  I often heard them being critical of other parents and their childrearing habits which led to the bad behavior of their children.  This family's second son was more normal, but still well behaved enough for the parents to retain their sense of being superior parents.  Then there was the third little child, again a boy.  He was an absolute hellion, I think from the time he left the womb.  As a little kid, he managed to escape all methods of restraint, whether doors, gates, etc. and head off to parts unknown.  I don't think these parents ever were critical of the parenting skills of others again.
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Re: Nature vs. Nurture - The Soul vs. Tabula Rasa?
Reply #7 - Dec 3rd, 2009 at 5:25am
 
I allowed my son to be brought up by a charismatic Christian but he has already experienced some meditation and no medication. He can out play me on the guitar. He is phenomenal. He says I"m the only person he can talk to about spiritual things and while thats sad at least he has an outlet for his creativity. He took my TOE to new heights. I love him so. HE IS A GOOD CHILD OF 14.
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All the world's a stage...whose stage?--that is the question!...or is it the answer...Who is on first.
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