Nah, the nickname was just a joke that OOD seemed to be playing with in the thread and b2 picked up on, Sera....... oh forget it.  Can I call you Al?

Seriously, my comments stemmed from your references to Monroe/Moen speak as if they were accepted topgraphy - the aperture and emmitter.  The disc, etc. are well described in the Voyages and Journeys books.  However, no one described them exactly the same before.  It means that M/M were pioneers (which attracts us to their writings).  And yet their were billions before writing of their own afterlife experiences without noticing these specific focus levels or things described by them.  Why was that?

Could it be that our afterlife experience is, to some extent individually based, and not as defined a known as some suppose?  There is ample reason to believe this to be true.  "There are many mansions in my Father's house," (to paraphrase).

I know it seems on that on a Bruce Moen run discussion forum, I'm bringing this up, but I think in some ways he would support this view - since he encourages folks not to follow his description, but to do the exploration.

As to my assuming you were a "blind follower" so to speak of M and M - I never made the assumption at  all, but was merely reacting to the content of your posts.  Reaching Samadhi is rare in a lifetime, so my hat is off to you, for having accomplished it twice.

Matthew

Doc:

First of all, I agree that we should find out for ourself rather than relying on somebody else's parameters, no matter who sets them.

I haven't experienced the aperture, but others besides Moen and Monroe have, or at least ways something similar. A guy named Tayesin at astralpulse.com spoke of having such an experience, and he hadn't read about Monroe's and Moen's experience.

P.M.H. Atwater spoke of an experince that perhaps speaks of the same thing, only in a different way. Below are her words (I inserted dots when I broke up her dialogue).

"Before my view there spun two objects I'll call cyclones for lack of a better word. One was big at the top, narrowing to a spout. The other was inverted directly below, being big on the bottom and coming up to a spout. They formed an hourglass shape, yet the two spouts did not meet in the middle. Instead, there radiated out from that spot a kind of light I hesitate to call light. I don't know what to call it. The English language doesn't have such a word. Its rays shot out in all directions. I was suspended near the middle as I gazed in awe at the immensity of what towered before me. Both cyclones were spinning at tremendous speeds. The cyclone on the top was spinning clockwise. The one on the bottom was spinning counter-clockwise. Inside the upper cone, I glanced a tiny grain of sand I recognized to be me - or the Phyllis I had once been. Superimposed over Phyllis and the life she was living was all her past and future lives. Everything was happening AT THE SAME TIME IN THE SAME SPACE!

I also recognized others around Phyllis and the same thing was happening to them. I saw multitudes of other people everywhere inside the cone and the same thing was happening to all of them. I felt like I was viewing all of life and I came to realize time and space do not exist at all. I saw no movements that raised or lowered, went backwards or forwards, no left or right. What I saw was only expansion and contraction. No one was greater or less than anyone else, but some people were expanded out and growing more, others were so contracted they seemed to shrink and wither.

As I searched for more clues to life, I noticed Phyllis was also in the cyclone on the bottom and in the exact same position as on the top, and everyone else was there too. The bottom cyclone was a mirror image of the upper one. They were reflections of each other. As above, so below. Fascinating as this was, my attention soon turned to the middle. That's where I wanted to go, into it and through it. I felt as if it were the doorway to God. At last I would discover the source of God Itself.

I was on my way there. It was then that I heard my son's sounds. Slowly I found myself being pulled back. I never heard any words, only the sound of his voice. There was something different about it. There was love in his voice. A different kind of love. It was not the love of a son for his mother. It was something new - at least for me. It was the sound of one human being loving another human being because he wanted to, not because he was expected to. It didn't even matter if the other person loved back. The only thing that mattered was Kelly giving love freely because Kelly wanted to. His love was open, without any expectations, restrictions or standards. It was unconditional love. Real love! I really didn't believe that special kind of love existed on the Earth-realm. I had heard of it before but had associated it with Divine or Saintly revelations. It was happening now and my son was giving it. Such a precious gift was worthy of being received.

I choose to return and live again. There were no angels, or anyone else egging me along. I made the conscious choice and when I did, the cyclones disappeared and my living room returned. I slipped back into my body, entering again through the top of the head. This time, my body did not respond. It felt cooler and strange. I panicked. Instantly I became a tiny cheerleader and game coach, scurrying up and down my frame shouting words like: hey team I'm back, wake up everyone, I'm back now, I'm sorry I did this to you. I won't do it again, I'm really back to stay this time, come on everyone, I'm back. The air sacs in the lungs were the hardest to activate. It took real effort to get the bellows to expand. With the first sweep of breath, my consciousness returned to my head area and my eyes opened.
....
...
The first lecture paid for the trip and told me why I was there. It was given by Dr. William Tiller, a physicist with Stanford University in California. His topic was THE ETERNAL NOW, and he illustrated his talk by having his graphs and drawings projected onto a huge stage screen. He described at length what he felt the greater reality to be, that what we really are is an energy mass and how that energy worked. The climax of his talk came when he spoke of The Eternal Now, what he felt it looked like and how it functioned.

It was his belief that ALL THINGS HAPPENED AT THE SAME TIME IN THE SAME SPACE. The drawing flashed on the screen was of two cyclones inverted over each other, and where the two spouts should have met, there radiated an immense light shooting out in all directions.

There's a lot more to life than I had ever realized and I erupted from my chair. He saw it too. He knew about the cyclones! I wasn't crazy after all! I wasn't mad! I didn't hallucinate! It was all real! I really saw it! What happened to me was valid! I was sane! The learning continues."

http://www.near-death.com/atwater_nde.html

Hi DocM:  Finally we are beginning to get on the same page. Do you remember what thread the Seraflush came up in. 

<<Seriously, my comments stemmed from your references to Monroe/Moen speak as if they were accepted topgraphy - the aperture and emmitter.  The disc, etc. are well described in the Voyages and Journeys books.  However, no one described them exactly the same before.  It means that M/M were pioneers (which attracts us to their writings).  And yet their were billions before writing of their own afterlife experiences without noticing these specific focus levels or things described by them.  Why was that?>>

Firstly, M/M are the first to my knowledge to take an everyday approach to the material… but, remember Moen is an extension of Monroe… Monroe meticulously avoided the Chakra stuff (he refused to allow his trainers to use any occult or accepted terminology in the world of mysticism, because he was forging a modern look and was determined to take the mysterious and ominous out of the equation… plus he was cultivating the mainstream scientific community and they don’t walk they run from the occult.)

The focus levels were established as a training tool for the seminars… it allowed Monroe to deal with a broad crosssection of people who had from no acquaintance with this new look at the non-physical to those who had a deep occult and mystical vocabulary and understanding… but, the seminars are geared to the lowest common denominator of student… that’s why TMI is careful not to take any given class too far too fast… that is why one MUST take Gateway as a first class… no matter who you think you are they will not allow anyone to take classes out of a specific order and it all begins with Gateway… of course, there was good material before TMI… but, I can tell you this with certainty… Hemi-sync is the difference… hemi-sync allows 99.9 % of the people who come to TMI to experience some level of the non-physical… in the world of spiritual unfoldment only very advance Soul’s ever really get anywhere because the teachers have no skills with ordinary people… they don’t have hemi-sync..

S

Discernment is in the mind of the one doing the discerning. To say someone is not discerning is your own problem not theirs.

Beau

I agree with nonphysicalguy.  It is sometimes apparent when one lacks discernment.  This can be detrimental to one's growth.

Most definitely.  I am a huge fan of the Seth material, although I am aware that there are some flaws within it, not unlike any other source.  This does not mean that the Seth material should be avoided, or feared.  It means that discernment is needed.  Some tend to throw the baby out with the bath water, others find that they can benefit from it without having to worship the entire body of knowledge as if it were God's word.  The problem that is being brought up is when a source is idolized and seen without faults.. when one trusts fully in the source without questioning it's validity or testing it's truth through personal experience.

I don't mean to dash any one with a sword I promise, but I do get tired of hashing out this issue. I think most of us agree that we are not our brothers source, merely offering some guidance when asked for and only then. Otherwise we are pulling them off of their path which may even lead us to richer finds.

I have recently read it and I believe it still emanates from ones own fears. That's why it can be over come.
Like all fears. It was a scary passage though.