When I meditate I place a candle in the meddle of my table.then I place my hands on both sides of the candle.my hands are palm to palm,one on the left side of the candle,and the other on the right side of it.As I began to meditate my hands start to move toward the base of the candle.1 inch at a time.when both hands reach the candle,they wrape around the base.now remember I dont move my hands,they move on there own.After a while my hands start to move back to where they started.They then rise up to shoulder leval,and move toward each other,untill they join togetter palm to palm,and stay like that untill the meditation is over.Any opinions on what is making my hands move in this way.What is this telling me?George

Actually, it looks a lot more like Patrick Swayze.

Yes I am sure,by I would not rule out my spirit moving my hands,even my whole body will move if I just think that it will.I think my spirit is telling me not to worry about death because I have this other body inside me that lives on after death.George

I think it is also interesting that Bruce Moen has repeatedly stated that he rarely has had classic OOB experiences.  His method, the imagination technique is best described as shifting the focus of concsciousness and then making observations.  I have not heard Bruce, on this board talk about or concentrate on classic OOB astral travel. 

Sometimes, there is an assumption that because Bruce was associated with TMI and Monroe that they had the same experiences.  To me, Bruce's genius and techniques lie in the fact that unlike his predecessors, he does not require that you leave your body to travel in a different vehicle.

Think about that.  Monroe had OOB experiences without trying to (this started his journeys).  Robert Bruce's methods center around getting out of your body.  However, Bruce Moen realizes that consciousness is independent of the vehicle.   Thus traveling OOB is no more valid than phasing or shifting awareness (his method).  This focus on various astral bodies is, to me another belief system, albeit an exciting one.

In our most basic state, we are points of pure perception, independent of any body (astral or physical).  If we choose to explore this by creating various vehicles to travel in - so be it - whatever floats your boat.  Bruce's method is by far easier, because he focuses on consciousness itself, not the so called vehicle.  But remember, a key factor in spiritual growth is love.  And vehicles have nothing to do with love.  So I advocate exploration with that in mind.  Otherwise, you miss the forest for the trees.


Matthew

[quote author=0E2529074A0 link=1257897949/6#6 date=1257924724]I think it is also interesting that Bruce Moen has repeatedly stated that he rarely has had classic OOB experiences.  His method, the imagination technique is best described as shifting the focus of concsciousness and then making observations.  I have not heard Bruce, on this board talk about or concentrate on classic OOB astral travel. >>

Hi Matt: I am not really an authority on OBE and Phasing and Imagination techniques… I was raised in the OBE school, then as a graduate of TMI – Gateway and Guidelines I am using phasing, but, in the Wave I through Wave VI discs… there is a lot of obe work… so isn’t it just a matter of what works for each individual?? In an interview [on utube (sp???)] Monroe says he really can’t explain the difference… only that after obe’ing conventionally, one day he discovered phasing or clicking… I can give you an example… I am a thoroughbred handicapper… in the early days I learned very complex math to calculate speed… after a while I could look at the numbers and make a fair educated guess without all the complex math… tell me this in the Voyage series when Bruce meets Denise, Tony and the others in the TMI diningroom to do the crystal ritual… you are trying to tell me they are not obe!!??? ..i.e..  astral bodies at TMI and physical bodies in their respective homes???   

Seraphis

<<But remember, a key factor in spiritual growth is love. 
And vehicles have nothing to do with love.  So I advocate exploration with that in mind.  Otherwise, you miss the forest for the trees.


Matthew  [/quote]

Pure Unconditional Love is the goal we all must be able to experience and project… Love is the Sum of the Law and Love surpasseth Understanding.

Thus Spake Seraphis1 ~ Sun God of the Temple of Isis 

What is this?I started of with meditation,and you changed to a new subject.Why not stay on what I started.If you want to start another tread,do it with another topic.George

Thanks for putting up with us, George!

I think the physical body is spiritual, George, and that it really 'likes' movements which are flowing and beautiful and which embrace the beauty surrounding it. There are certain movements of the body which are universal -- we see them everywhere. I think there is a reason for this, and I think you are just listening to your own inner nature, George, when your body moves in this way. Have you ever tried playing some music and doing dancing movements while you are feeling 'the spirit' within you? I find that, within a dance, we feel the unity between ourselves and the world around us, and we are joined by the powers that exist in the entire universe. That is, if we would like to do this.