hawkeye wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 1:42pm:


Re: the highlighted portion of your quote, do you mean consciousnesses like Rosiland A. McKnight's guidance team who clearly told Bob Monroe and her that it was preferable to eat vegetarian, and laid out the various reasons why.  They didn't say one "must" eat vegetarian, but they pointed out the reasons of why cutting down on meat (especially meats from four hoofed animals), as well as cutting it completely out, helped the human energy system in beneficial ways. 

Basically the main reason they gave, was the issue of the heavy, dense emotional fear energy that permeates the meat of higher animals, four hoofed etc. type animals (and according to them, to a lesser extent with fish and fowl).  Constantly consuming same, has a lowering affect on one's energies...kind of overly grounding a person in a negative way.  My experience has having been both a voracious meat-eater at one point and as a committed vegetarian supports what Rosiland's guidance outlined.

  For those interested, check out her first book, "Cosmic Journeys", and the Chapter "Control: the Foods we Eat:" 

    Having met Rosie a few times, and having tuned into her energy in person, i'm fairly sure that she was probably in touch with some pretty expanded consciousness levels--plus i've often gotten that sense when i've read her books. 

  But i guess her guidance team are just spiritually confused, trapped within limited belief systems, etc as they must be according to Hawkeyes more enlightened way of looking at the world. 

Regarding vegetarians being fundamentalists, this was addressed earlier. Can't people speak up for what they believe in without being fundamentalists?  When people make such  claims, it seems as if they are being defensive. Why is this so?

Should there be a law which states that vegetarians can't state what they believe, because they will be "JUDGED" to be fundamentalists? I've heard so many people speak about vegetarians in a condascending way.

Hawkeye, with your way of thinking you might as well go eat people, because it's the same as eating lettuce.

And if I had to, I would eat people.
Yes Justin, there is a possibility that ROMC's guidance helpers might have told her to cut back on her meat consumption for good reason. Mostly her heart. You must believe her to have been far more spiritually advanced along her path that RAM. He did eat meat. And liked it. In fact I would bet you that of all the so called spiritually advanced, there are just as many meat eaters as there are veg heads. I also met ROMC a few time and we got along swimmingly. She didn't have a problem with me eating meat. At least she never mentioned it to me. Did she to you? Enlightenment is a funny thing. Its personal. Hopefully some day you will understand that. 
When it comes to what I am seeing as recoverer belief in how plants feel or have consciousness, while I believe there might be some work to do there. Perhaps a few more lifetimes living as one might open up your heart. As far as vegetarian fundamentalism goes...go for it. Be who you want to project yourself as being. But if your going to put yourself in that position then you had better put your life in order first if you haven't already. No leather goods. Shoes, jackets, gloves, steering wheel covers, many types of household and food products and additives. No meat products. No animal tested products. Take a good look at your life and the lives of those around you and remove what you have to. There is nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. But those who think of themselves higher and mightier because of it need to get a grip on themselves. By the way Justin, meats, meat. That means fish is a meat. So is fowl. As for propaganda movies and tapes as posted here, they should be removed just like the Nazi ones that were posted some time back. This PETA cr@p make me want to puke. Farms don't operate that way anymore. At the very least, few do.
Of course this is only my personal opinion. I would never suggest that you follow in my belief. Unlike some Veg Heads, I don't need agreement. I have enlightenment already. I repeat. Plants feel. They knowingly become a part of our food and happily sacrifice themselves for us. Just like they do for one another. If some of you cant grasp that plants have consciousness, thats your personal loss.
Burger good, Brussel sprouts, bad..

A late P.S.

I don't see how one can say it is okay to eat meat (as it is available), without also saying it is okay for animals to be treated as they are treated in the video I provided.  I believe it is wrong to turn a blind eye to what takes place. Might as well turn a blind eye to what might've happened with 911. Things change for the better only when people act in a way that causes them to change for the better.  Justifications, rationalizations, denials and excuses don't do anybody any good.

And please don't think that I might be stepping on somebody's toes by being hardcore, because any injury somebody experiences is nothing compared to what livestock animals go through.

hawkeye wrote on May 9^th, 2011 at 4:48pm:


  Joe, you have an amazing ability to distract from the key points and issues that someone who disagrees with you has brought up in a very clear and concise manner.
 
  To point out a few gaping holes in the above.  Rosiland's guidance as outlined in her book was giving general advice to Rosie, Bob, and probably to the people they knew would eventually read her book even though it was many years in the making (thats how nonphysical guidance works being much more aware of future probabilities than most in physical personalities).

  It was not about Rosies "heart" or any of her health problems, which hadn't developed at that point to begin with.  Not once did i read about them specifically saying anything to her about her health or lack thereof in their talking about the helpfulness of reducing and/or completely cutting out flesh foods.

  Again, it was primarily about the GENERAL, universal issue of emotional fear energy contained within or connected to flesh, which has an adverse effect on the human energy system in general. 

It's there quite clearly in Rosiland's book, "Cosmic Journeys".  Why you feel such a need to distract from the basic facts found therein, is quite telling in and of itself. 

  Notice I wasn't speaking, earlier, of what Rosie or Bob did or didn't do personally, or what they believed, practiced, etc.   I simply stated what her nonphysically focused guidance recommended and why they did so.  The apparently missed obvious point i was trying to make is that Rosiland's nonphysical guidance was more wise, more intune, more consciously aware, and less attached than was Rosie or Bob themselves.   Hence, one can get the real scoop or skinny from such expanded sources and not fleshly weak in physicals with strong material appetites and attachments.

  Ever hear the saying, "The Spirit is strong and willing, but the flesh is weak".  That is true so much of the time for so many in physically focused consciousnesses.   

   So, if you are going to "refute" my posts, please refute the actual specific points i bring up, and not go on some rambling diatribe about how Bob Monroe ate and enjoyed meat, Rosie's heart, blah blah blah.

Monroe was a cool guy, a basically good and fairly aware guy, but he was no He/She type by a long shot in that life.  That means, Bob had areas to work on in self, illusions to wake up from, more attuning to PUL to do, etc. etc. 

   Not eating meat doesn't directly make one more spiritual, nor does eating meat directly take away from the spiritual development of a person. I've stated this clearly many times on this thread. 

What meat eat does do (especially when eaten constantly and in larger amounts, particularly certain kinds), though, is have a generally adverse effect on the human energy system, making it harder to clear and balance same for the other levels of self. 

  It just makes it harder to keep one's various energies levels clear and in a balanced relation with one another. 

  Can you speak to this having not been a committed vegetarian for a long time, having gone from eating a lot of meat? 

  Speaking of Bob, then, isn't experience the best teacher as he often said.  Well, my actual, bonafide experience has taught me that what Rosiland's GUIDANCE (not her, not Bob, etc) taught and suggested is quite true.
   
    In other words, it's been "verified" for me.  It cannot be "verified" or dis proven for you or another until you or another actually have the experience.

  But that would require self change, discipline, hmm that dirty word "self sacrifice", etc. and that's where the problem comes isn't it?

   Just like with Edgar Cayce and his guidance, neither Bob nor Rosie always listened or followed as much as they should have to the guidance they communicated with.  Again, it goes back to that old teaching about the Spirit being strong and willing, but the flesh being weak. 

   I also fall short of what my guidance asks of me, and so i know this well enough.  Sometimes my flesh is also weak, though the Spirit strong and willing.

recoverer wrote on May 9^th, 2011 at 1:17pm:


  Yum, certainly makes me hungry.  Well sarcasm aside, in reality, i watched most of the first one, but couldn't finish watching it as i was both feeling sick to my stomach and crying at the same time. 

  This is part of the reason why earlier on this thread, i recommended that if one feels that they must eat meat, then it's best if one hunts or raises itself.  I did not go into the unconscionable way in which many, many (most) animals are raised, abused, and slaughtered for food (though i was well aware of that beforehand).

Rather, i appealed to people's self interested side and said that hunted or personally raised animal meat is much, much healthier for one's body. 

  Here is what i've learned about this issue, unless one is approaching or talking to a person on the precipice of change to begin with, it does no good to mention the extremely and unbelievably inhumane, cruel, and sad way in which most animals raised as livestock and dairy are treated.

  Most peoples hearts are hardened and deaf to this.  Oh, if they deign to, or have the courage to watch some, they might feel bad while watching same, but they quickly put the reality out of their mind, and go on their merry way.  Because of attachments, and ultimately, lack of compassion and attunement to PUL.  Their selfishness is stronger than their love. 

  Such same people often mention the more spiritually intune Native Americans and that they ate meat.  Well sure, but they didn't eat the meat from animals raised like they are in the U.S and in many other "developed" (technologically) countries.   I think if we could transport one of those more intune Native American tribes from the past to the future and have them watch this.... I think they would all cry, and think they have been transported to some kind of living hell wherein the Great Spirit has been utterly forgotten and spat upon.  They would probably try to free all these mistreated and completely disrespected animals.

  So, i've become to think it is more effective to appeal to people's self interested side. It's where the majority can be reached.

I've wondered if this is why Rosiland's guidance mentioned the imbalancing effect that a lot of meat consumption tends to have on the human energy system?  And that if one really cuts down or completely cuts out same, it's easier for one to more easily perceive and experience faster vibratory nonphysical levels or states... (way "beyond" classic OBE experiences and states btw).

  See, they were appealing to people's self interested side, rather than to peoples ethical or compassionate side.  I'm sure they were well aware of the unconscionable way in which animals are treated in the country that Bob and Rosie lived in.  I'm sure they cared.  I'm sure it broke their nonphysical hearts to see how much disrespect and cruelty humans showed to fellow, sentient, emotionally attuned, and pain feeling creatures.  Yet, they did not approach it in that way, and i have a feeling they knew better there.

   But back to my new approach.  Same with health.  Many health sources agree that cutting down on meat consumption, especially from animals like beef and pig, definitely improves one's health. 

  Or like i said it's also healthier to hunt or raise it oneself.

  But while i feel for these animals myself, and really wish things were different, i think i will primarily stick to trying to appeal to people's self interested side, rather than to their ethical or compassionate side.  People's hackles and defense systems tend to automatically raise when one tries to appeal to the ethical and compassionate side of things and point out how they are supporting and contributing to such a disgusting, unloving, and inhumane system.

  Perhaps my feelings, thoughts, etc. on this topic make me an arrogant person, a spiritually confused person, or someone whose spirituality is fake and based on judgment of others...

  Maybe, but i would rather be on this side any day than on the other side which supports and furthers the kind of mass inhumanity and cruelty that goes on daily and with literally billions and billions of animals in the world.

  We might not willingly stop this any time soon, but soon is coming a time when the Creative Forces will stop us, and we will have no choice but to change.  Every time a generations collective heart gets so hardened, so atrophied, does nature and the Creative Forces conspire to send humanity a severe wake up call and knocks down our built up civilizations as if they were nothing but rotted twigs. Rather more accurately, more so it's what we co-create and attract to us via the Like attracts and begets Like Law that runs this whole Universe. 

  If we constantly and mostly collectively put out/express destructive energy, it's what we will eventually attract collectively.    

 

Justin and Recoverer, 
Re-read my posts above if you like, and see that I entered this thread with a reasonably balanced view on the subject of diet. I suppose I should have anticipated there would be holier than thou vegetarians here who fancy their vegetarianism qualifies them to spiritually insult other people, but for some reason I thought such nasty types would not be on this forum. You fancying that your vegetarian diet makes you more spiritual than meat eaters is grossly mistaken. And your putting down the spiritual level of meat eaters is pathetic and cheap:

A few of many examples:
"..... Don't tell me you give a damn about their welfare when you eat them. If you truly cared about how they are treated you wouldn't eat them...."
“…the extremely and unbelievably inhumane, cruel, and sad way in which most animals raised as livestock and dairy are treated…”
“…lack of compassion and attunement to PUL”

What a horrid pair you are. Accusing meat eaters of not caring about animals and of lacking compassion and love, and saying meat eaters need to be appealed to on a level of self interest. Saying such things about meat eaters might make you feel more spiritual than them but its a false feeling generated by false thinking.  

You two self-lovers are wrapped up in your own feel good fantasies about your self. That is what's called wanking.
In your case its moral/spiritual wanking. Break the habit boys. Grow up and get real.