Conversation Board - Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall

heisenberg69 Super Member Offline Posts: 504 England Gender:	Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall Reply #30 - Nov 5^th, 2009 at 3:20pm Agreed...I'll think i'll take a lie down now...
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Berserk2

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Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall
Reply #31 - Nov 6^th, 2009 at 12:15am

Theism, atheism, and agnosticism are each positions based on a network of assumptions. All 3 outlooks are plausible within their own presuppositional framework. Typically, the atheist or agnostic restricts herself to a scientific materistic framework of asumptions. Debate can be waged on whose assumptions are the most rational and explain all the data of reality in the most plausible manner. Since we believe our assumptions, atheism and agnosticism are by definition belief systems.

"On what grounds does the religious believer deny the existence of dragons?"

I suppose onn the grounds that he doesn't believe all the films and well-established eyewitness testimony about the Komodo Dragon of Indonesia. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

For the theist, the God postulate is falsifiable in principle, and yet, unfalsified. Santa Claus has sadly been falsified. But try telling that to little kids of parents in a Christmas eve service! The parents get incensed by such debunking!

"Rather, they would hold that an atheist is a person without a belief in God."

Supermodel, you seem to be fudging the distinction between "atheist" and "agnostic." An agnostic lacks a belief in God. She admits she doesn't know if there's a God. But God is irrelevant to her life and value system. By the way, I too would like to hear how you justify an afterlife with no appeal to an Intelligent Designer of that system.

Don

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Pat E.

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Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall
Reply #32 - Nov 6^th, 2009 at 3:06am

Don, the Buddhists have been doing it for a long time. Buddhism is nontheistic, i.e. no God up there in the sky punishing, creating or whatever. Yet Buddhist teachings include the afterlife and reincarnation, e.g. The Tibetan Book of the Dead. And a recent accessible and profound text by a Buddhist teacher, Dzogchen Ponlop, Mind Beyond Death, explaining the six bardos, one being dying and two in the afterlife.

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Berserk2

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Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall
Reply #33 - Nov 6^th, 2009 at 2:14pm

Pat,

Yes, I know. When I was a college professor I used to teach the various forms of Buddhism in my comparative religion course. It is a characteristic of all religions that they feature some sort of absolute, but you are correct that the God label seems rather meaningless for some religions.

Modern science postulates evolution through natural selection and random genetic mutation. The most adaptive genetic mutations tend to be promoted in the next generation and ultimately in future species. Since there are no genes in the afterlife, evolution there, must be fueled by different principles if postmortem evolution exists at all. Potentially, those unique principles might force us to alter our understanding of biological evolution. Frankly, I still believe a divine intelligence is essential to evolution in both the earthly and etheric realms. But I'm interested in how Supermodel justifies her atheism with an afterlife belief.

Don
Don

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recoverer

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Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall
Reply #34 - Nov 6^th, 2009 at 3:51pm

I studied biology sufficiently enough to know that biological organisms are incredibly complex, therefore, something beyond natural selection must be involved.

In order for an organism to survive, numerous traits have to work in a cooperative manner. I don't see how random mutations could achieve what is needed. Many species (or even all species) would stop surviving before the requisite mutations take place. It is important to note that the majority of mutations have a negative effect.

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Alan McDougall Super Member Offline Posts: 2104 South Africa Gender:	Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall Reply #35 - Nov 7^th, 2009 at 11:23am Hi, Did anyone actually read my short letter to an atheist, where I first stated the thread The atheist if you are interested is my younger brother Roger Alan
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Beau

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Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall
Reply #36 - Nov 7^th, 2009 at 11:51am

I read it, Alan. It is a letter than makes great points about the nature of evolution and it would be mighty hard and take an immense amount of luck to achieve it all in a few billion years. Even with trial and error it would take quite along time to and an unprecedented amount of luck. Though it can't be shown it makes good sense that there is a guided evolution of the earth if not the whole physical universe. I don't know if that is collective consciousness or a deity... I lean toward the collective though and that our impressions of the that collective will be anything that gives us comfort from a subjective standpoint, so yes, it could appear to be a deity to those who want that and something organised a bit differently to those who aren't comfortable with Zeus or God or Allah.

Does that make me an atheist who believes in the afterlife?

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All the world's a stage...whose stage?--that is the question!...or is it the answer...Who is on first.

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall
Reply #37 - Nov 7^th, 2009 at 12:07pm

Beau wrote on Nov 7^th, 2009 at 11:51am:

I read it, Alan. It is a letter than makes great points about the nature of evolution and it would be mighty hard and take an immense amount of luck to achieve it all in a few billion years. Even with trial and error it would take quite along time to and an unprecedented amount of luck. Though it can't be shown it makes good sense that there is a guided evolution of the earth if not the whole physical universe. I don't know if that is collective consciousness or a deity... I lean toward the collective though and that our impressions of the that collective will be anything that gives us comfort from a subjective standpoint, so yes, it could appear to be a deity to those who want that and something organised a bit differently to those who aren't comfortable with Zeus or God or Allah.

Does that make me an atheist who believes in the afterlife?

Hi Beau,

I believe in Intelligent Design for the whole universe and that was my bases for initiating this thread

Alan

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Blessings and Light

Alan McDougall

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supermodel Senior Member Offline Posts: 250 Indiana Gender:	Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall Reply #38 - Nov 7^th, 2009 at 8:08pm Deep sigh....... I, for one, hate these discussions about atheism, agnosticism, god....and such. It just seems like some people here seem to be such experts on everyone and everything.... This board hasn't been as interesting as it has been when I first joined.... Need a break.
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Petrus Full Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 130 Gender:	Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall Reply #39 - Nov 8^th, 2009 at 3:38am As well as Contact, this is a Star Trek episode which I'd show an atheist, if I wanted to try and get them thinking.
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betson

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Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall
Reply #40 - Nov 8^th, 2009 at 4:16am

Hi

Atheism and other beliefs could come from emotional causes, so the rationality of various arguments won't have much bearing. For example, maybe it's the sensitive souls who do not find enough love and compassion put into the world who can't believe there is a compassionate, loving Source.

Every time a soul distances itself from the Source by saying the Source isn't there, the further it moves from Source/God. In my opinion it can wait for God to hurl a bolt of lightning at it or it can start to invite God into its life by 'the imagination method,' dialoging respectfully with It as you would speak to a wise person.
I tried that method and it turned my downward-spinning life around .

Bets

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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare

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Alan McDougall

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Re: Letter to an atheist by Alan McDougall
Reply #41 - Nov 9^th, 2009 at 3:23am

supermodel wrote on Nov 7^th, 2009 at 8:08pm:

Deep sigh.......

I, for one, hate these discussions about atheism, agnosticism, god....and such.

It just seems like some people here seem to be such experts on everyone and everything....

This board hasn't been as interesting as it has been when I first joined....

Need a break.

What would you like to discuss? Start a new thread of your own, but heck God is important he/she is the reason we exist

Alan

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Blessings and Light

Alan McDougall

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