Matthew

Here is a direct quote from Heaven and Hell, one which I am referring to in my previous post:

(page 363) "we remain the same forever in regard to our volition or dominant love"

Swedenborg says that if our dominant love is love of self, we end up in a hell.  And he says that our dominant love never changes.  So put two and two together, and we have a false belief.

It's great to see that in other works he finds that retrievals from Hell are possible, and that it is possible to change one's inner nature.  Of course, this is a blatant contradiction to what he says in Heaven and Hell.  Perhaps his beliefs on this subject changed as he gained more experience and learned deeper truths. 

It's true.  He said it and that's that.  What he says is generally straight forward, and although much of what he says can be interpreted to fit more advanced concepts which we have come to understand in these modern times which were unknown back in his time, I don't believe this one applies.  It is possible for him to accurately understand and describe certain aspects of the afterlife, and fall short of truth on others.  Not everyone has a crystal clear interpreter or a perfect TOE. 

Dude,

I can not say that I agree with ES, although I haven't had discussions with deceased people from thousands of years ago. 

To me, however, he is saying we have each, individually a primary love which we follow, which does not have to be evil or good.  In fact if the form of love is applied in a loving manner, it may lead to spiritual growth, if it is applied toward selfish or sadistic ends, it can lead us toward a hell.

Let us say our primary love is to solve puzzling situations.  One can imagine following this toward either loving ends, or unloving ones.  There is nothing wrong in acknowledging that we may have a primary love to our personality that persists indefinitely.  This, by no means indicates that we won't have secondary loves.  Thus the person who enjoys solving puzzles - figuring out what makes things tick, may also love God and other people.  However, when ES peered into the persons nature, he saw the primary love first.  He would look at a Julius Caeser, and find that when he died, his love of power over others persisted for centuries in the afterlife.  Or perhaps that a famous lover such as Paris from the Trojan war, persisted in following his lusts and narcissism after he died. 

What ES says, is not different from what many afterlife sources say.  Many sources point to the fact that spiritual growth occurs much more rapidly on earth, where we have our interior love under control and being modified by our exterior mask of society.    ES is sort of saying the same thing, only he says that without our exterior masks, we stay with our primary love.  But I feel that he was saying more that we follow this primary love and change it less and in different ways once we are dead. 

I think I "get" his point, but don't necessarily agree with it all.  I think ES does speak of people leaving hells, as I documented, as so he is inconsistent and perhaps conflicted himself. 


Matthew

Ok.  I believe I initially misunderstood what he was saying.  I thought he was saying that our inner state of "good" or "evil" never changes.  Rather, what he is saying is that our deepest passions never change.  I suppose what is important is whether we seek out to fulfill these passions in a loving way or a selfish way.

Why would spirits in a thief's hell have to steal, if they could simply create what they want? Do you steal astral creations from each other? Does money have anything to do with an astral realm?

recoverer wrote on Nov 24^th, 2009 at 1:38pm:


Hi Recoverer: My understanding of the Hell's is that they are a fixation that creates a specific kind of environment... it apparently works like the belief systems... i.e... if you believe you must steal to exist... you create an environment in which you MUST steal to exist... and if your game is putting one over on an adversary... you will create an adversary to... spar with... that seems to be the mechanics of it... A famous 19th century con man... Berstein I think his name was... is said to have been anything he wanted to be in the legitimate world... but he loved the art of the con...

Seraphis1

Bruce Moen wrote on Nov 24^th, 2009 at 4:14pm:


Hi Bruce: Guess I got that wrong... when I was in Monroe's house for Guidelines... I found a hole world of books on o.b.e. very old and probably very valuable... but, Sylvan Muldoon was the the premier writer on real-time-zone... projection... a prolific traveler... The Projection of the Astral Body by Slyvan Muldoon and Carrington... still in print from 1927. In Voyage Beyond Doubt you suggest you read broadly on the subject... Muldoon was the most accurate and analytically correct writer whose work still holds up... he wrote a second book with Carrington where he describes how to go about helping people out of their bodies in training groups..

Sorry if I got that wrong. 

Seraphis1