Hi Dude: I think what he is saying is he is not on focus 27 but in the belief system territories... and the hollow heavens this is what I mean by Monroe and Moen are the templates by which to identify where the writers are coming from. But the hells and hollow heavens are strictly Moenic.

I agree Recoverer.  Although much of what Swedenborg says seems pretty accurate, there are some things he "learns" which are obviously distorted by false beliefs he  probably acquired through the church.  But these inaccuracies are very apparent, and easily dismissed without really affecting the quality and significance of the truths he discovers.  I am interested in what Don thinks of these obvious inaccuracies. 

I was also playing with the idea that if the angels he speaks with in heaven are in fact telling him these untruths, then perhaps the heaven he is experiencing is actually a belief system territory.  He does refer to the heaven as a "Christian" heaven.  However, the truths he speaks of does make the heavens he visits seem genuine.  I have yet to finish the book, so I am trying not to draw too many conclusions until I have assimilated the entire work.

Matthew:

Below are some of Swedenborg's words (I haven't read all of them):

Swedenborg: Still, it needs to be realized that in the other life any people who have not put "good" in one compartment and "true" in another--who have not separated faith from love--accept the heavenly concept of the Lord as God of the universe once they have been taught.

Albert: By Lord Swedenborg means Jesus Christ, therefore he says God and Christ are one and the same.

Swedenborg: On the other hand, people who have denied the Lord's divine nature and have recognized only his human nature (like the Socinians) are also excluded from heaven. They are taken a little way forward to the right and are let down into the depths, which completely separates the from the Christian realm.

Albert: Swedenborg doesn't mention Catholics, but he does mention people who don't believe that God and Christ are one. Some sources say we select the life we incarnate into.  Why would people choose to incarnate as a Catholic, if being taught to believe in the trinity would prevent them from returning to heaven?  Perhaps the answer is that regardless of what we believe after we die, as long as we have the humility to accept divine truth as it is, we'll able to see things as they are.

Swedenborg: Things happen differently for people who are born outside the church, the ones we call non-Christians. We will discuss them later.

Albert: Going by the above, belief is irrelevant, except why does Swedenborg find it necessary to speak of Christians who believe in the trinity differently than he speaks of non-Christians? A Christian such as a Catholic is just as unlikely to believe that God and Christ are one, as a person in a non-Christian religion.

Swedenborg: There were some spirits who had acknowledged the Father but whose only concept of the Lord has been that he was a human being like everyone else. This meant they did not believe that he was the God of heaven. As a result, they were allowed to travel here and there and to ask at will whether there was a heaven that did not belong to the lord. They asked around for some days without finding any.

Albert: According to the above, they are provided with the chance to find out what's true. I figure that as long as they are humble towards divine will, they will be okay. Therefore, once again, what they believed before hand is irrelevant. This being the case, it is odd that Swedenborg makes a distinction between Christians who believe in the trinity and those who don't.

Hi All: Seems as I read the posts that I am more and more right about Monroe and Moen. Since, the two have realigned mysticism and cosmology with "knowns" that have brought all that past information into line with the truth about what is actually happening in the physical and non-physical realms and are defining very clearly the road ahead and its goals... the caviat is this... these "knowns" for Monroe and Moen are still only "beliefs" for us until we turn them into knowns... past writers didn't have the technology to get "knowns"... remember Monroe's hemi-sync work is all reversed engineered... no past mystic ever thought to reverse engineer... nor had they the technology to do it... or even possibly the inclination to do it... Monroe is one of a kind... I don't know if the board knows it but Joe McMonagle has the original manuscript for Ultimate Journey and it is many time larger than the published version and his publisher didn't think the real version could be profitably published because it was so far out... that is why Monroe after he died engaged Moen to start finishing the job... Moen wrote what Monroe wanted to write... that is my opinion...

Thank you betson... I love you. 

What I find interesting about ES in heaven and hell is to read his discussion of the three stages of man after death.  they ring true with a lot of modern explorers, including Bruce (in fact I had a thread about this, and Bruce correlated his explorations/retrievals with ES's description.

In a nutshell, nowhere does ES pretend to condemn people to hell.  He asserts that our post mortem fate is determined by our ability to love God and our fellow human beings, and to the degree we achieve either or both, we enter a heavenly realm.  To the degree we turn away from both, we voluntarily enter the hellish planes.  Free will persists though.

The trinity example is, for ES a teaching point.  That there is one God; that God is not subdivided, that the trinity looks at different aspects of one God, but in Heaven one does not address the holy ghost or father differently.  True he said anyone who didn't get this would likely not enter into the heavens - more for their understanding and attempt to subdivide the divine unity than anything else. 

ES states that for most people entering Monroe/Moen's focus 27, after the mask of earthlife falls away they will enter a third stage of death, namely a stage of instruction.  For those who are selfish and unloving, once they migrate toward others who feel the same way, there is no formal heavenly instruction (though admittedly there may be types of hellish instructions). 


M

Albert,

This is more in Don's arena, but I would say that for ES, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the father/God were always one and the same.  It is the paradox of the trinity, namely appearing to be separate yet being a unity that he mentions.  Apparently, in the heavenly realms, he found the understanding of this unity to be essential to proceed in the heavens.

M