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My problem with reincarnation and karma (Read 37941 times)
heisenberg69
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #75 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 3:28pm
 
Hi,

frankly i'm puzzled everyone seems to be talking about a different set of books to the ones I read regarding Conversations With God. The ones I read taught that we were all one, love was paramount, we need to heal the world etc etc - is the US version that different to the UK ? I get confused because the same people quite happily absorb the bible with its mixture of murder and mayhem (OT predominately) carried out by a jealous Jehovah.

A lot of people seem perturbed by the temerity of Walsch to claim that he's communicating with the divine but that criticism presupposes that we can know the Creator objectively/directly. Walsch freely acknowledges that the material comes through his very human 'filter'. But then I would ask how could we ever experience/know God but through our filters of unique individual perception ? To my mind Walsch either strikes a chord with you or he does'nt but to say that's not God suggests that You (only ?!) know the real God ! Is'nt that something Al-Quaida claim ?

I'm also a bit concerned by the blanket use of the term of 'New Age' (usually used pejoratively) which covers such a wide range of philosophies/theologies to be almost meaningless as a referential term. I am puzzled when I hear gentle spiritual beliefs are descibed as 'hate filled', terms more appropriate for the Christian Spanish Inquisition.I do believe that many current teachings/beliefs can legitimately be queried on the grounds of 'wooliness' or untested claims but I just don't get the blanket attack on everything one does'nt accept as currently true. The last thing such a 'New Ager' would do is attack you for not believing what they believe in, a claim which cannot be made about many 'Christians' over the centuries.

I would like to point out that my intention is not one of causing offence to anyone and is done in a genuine spirit of enquiry ( I'm really interested !). I think its great that people from all round the world can come together and talk about this stuff on this board without aggression or intimidation.

Dave
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b2
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #76 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 3:38pm
 
To me it verges on censorship when people can't even recommend a book in passing to someone without having the entire thread diverted into this kind of debate. I see nothing wrong with voicing an opinion, but some of the vigilant behavior that appears here occasionally (rather often, actually) borders on harassment and bullying, in my opinion.
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Seraphis1
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #77 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 3:39pm
 
Hi All: I am appalled by the lack of personal investigation into the Hall of Records to get verification to all this crazy stuff attacking other systems and their leaders. Everyone is using secondary sources which are relying on inuendo and hearsay and questionable sources. Failure to understand the cultural norms of other social systems, condemnation without personal and direct initiative. Shape up.. you know who you are... concentrate on your own personal spiritual developement. remember there are Hells and hollow heavens... they exist in the physical and live on in focus 23 and 24 afterdeath... the more you resist them the more you will be drawn to them.

Cool
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I Am Dude
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #78 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 3:47pm
 
Bro my bottom line is that you can't tell me what serves me best.  That is for me to decide.  Of course, you can see things with a different perspective than I can due to our varying beleifs, and offer your perspective, but that doesn't make it a more valid perspective, and so while you are worried about these sources misleading me(due to your beliefs), my beliefs do not allow these sources to mislead me, but instead allow me to take what resonates and leave the rest. 

There is a lot of BS in the Bible.  Some of the passages are extremely negative and misleading.  And yet I still understand that there is also truth contained within that I can benefit from.  I am sure everyone can agree to this.  It is no different with any other source.

Your advice may be helpful to those who do not trust their intuitions and inner self, those who have no inner connection, those who are so narrow minded that they are unable to discern truth from lies.  Do you think I am one of those people?  Are you really afraid that Bashar or any other source is going to mislead me?  That I am actually going to follow blindly?  I am smarter than that my friend.
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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
 
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recoverer
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #79 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 4:44pm
 
Seraphis1:

It doesn't matter what the culture was like in India during Ramakrishna's time. An adult man who lives according to love wouldn't have sex with a boy.

The below is a case of moral relativism used in a non-discriminitive way. There are some cultures where people owned slaves, certainly this isn't okay. There are some cultures where women are oppressed, certainly this isn't okay.

It isn't alway relative. If you do something to hurt another, then you do something to hurt another, regardless of how unenlightened the culture you live in is.

Come on, men holding  hands is hardly the same thing.

Either we can give the fraudulent gurus of this World power by contending that we can't know anything, or we can give ourselves more credit.

If you took the time to do some thorough research you would find that more than inuendo is involved.

Seraphis1 wrote on Oct 28th, 2009 at 3:27pm:
rondele wrote on Oct 28th, 2009 at 2:01pm:
[b]Ramakrishna was a homoerotic pedophile.


R


Hi All: Ramakrishna never had physical sex with anyone. You can’t prove he did beyond a reasonable doubt and absolute certainty. I can’t prove he didn’t to a moral certainty. But, as a student of his writings I know he claims not to have had even a “wet dream” which is natural for male humans at specific developmental times. He married by custom but never consummated the marriage. He was in my opinion a high level avatar in the Hindu/yogic belief system, probably operating in what TMI would deem levels at or above focus 34 and 37 (when I am skilled enough to verify directly this premise I will report it here). Some of you are displaying an appalling lack of information about cultures. In the India of that time and place what you call pedohilia was not a taboo… to an Indian that was just part of their way of life. Those of you who are screaming and yelling about other practices are doing so from your own rigid belief system restraints, imposing your personal values or hang ups on the Indian world. What their practices are today I do not know.  Men in the Muslim world walk about holding hands which is appalling to westerners. Those of you who are jumping out of your skin over these cultural variations without looking into the cultural norms of those societies are displaying an amazing level of intolerance and ignorance, that is rising to the level of obscene. But that is just my opinion. When in Rome do as the Romans do… if these Indian mystics come to America and practice pedophilia I wholeheartedly endorse prosecution to the full extent of the law. Here it is illegal. But in their own countries it is the business of that society and that society alone.

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recoverer
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #80 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 5:02pm
 
Heisenberg69:

The fact of the matter is that no matter how much a person including Walsch spins it, he called his books "Conversations with God."

Because the conversations are contrived and false things are said, I believe a person can see, if willing, that Walsch didn't actually speak to God.

Yet, he tries to benefit by including "God" as a part of the name of his books, and boy has he benefited.

When I see that a person allows his or her self to be so dishonest, I can't see what point there is in trying to benefit by what he or she says.

I wonder if he said anything to inspire people to view God with humility, respect, grattitude, reverence, loyalty and love, because if he did, they wouldn't be so quick to minimize what is involved when a person irresponsibly proclaims that he received words from God.

I don't believe we all became sinners because Eve ate an apple, but it is possible for us to do things that aren't appropriate.

It is fine that people have the inclination to speak up for various sources of information, but it behooves them to be certain about what they are defending. To defend in a non-discriminitive manner serves no purpose.
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Seraphis1
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #81 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 6:48pm
 
recoverer wrote on Oct 28th, 2009 at 4:44pm:
Seraphis1:

It doesn't matter what the culture was like in India during Ramakrishna's time. An adult man who lives according to love wouldn't have sex with a boy.

As I told you can't prove ramakrishna had sex with under age boys... this is libelous... in a court of law you would be paying ramakrishna a major financial settlement...

The below is a case of moral relativism used in a non-discriminitive way. There are some cultures where people owned slaves, certainly this isn't okay. There are some cultures where women are oppressed, certainly this isn't okay.

It isn't alway relative. If you do something to hurt another, then you do something to hurt another, regardless of how unenlightened the culture you live in is.

Come on, men holding  hands is hardly the same thing.

Either we can give the fraudulent gurus of this World power by contending that we can't know anything, or we can give ourselves more credit.

If you took the time to do some thorough research you would find that more than inuendo is involved.

Seraphis1 wrote on Oct 28th, 2009 at 3:27pm:
rondele wrote on Oct 28th, 2009 at 2:01pm:
[b]Ramakrishna was a homoerotic pedophile.


R


Hi All: Ramakrishna never had physical sex with anyone. You can’t prove he did beyond a reasonable doubt and absolute certainty. I can’t prove he didn’t to a moral certainty. But, as a student of his writings I know he claims not to have had even a “wet dream” which is natural for male humans at specific developmental times. He married by custom but never consummated the marriage. He was in my opinion a high level avatar in the Hindu/yogic belief system, probably operating in what TMI would deem levels at or above focus 34 and 37 (when I am skilled enough to verify directly this premise I will report it here). Some of you are displaying an appalling lack of information about cultures. In the India of that time and place what you call pedohilia was not a taboo… to an Indian that was just part of their way of life. Those of you who are screaming and yelling about other practices are doing so from your own rigid belief system restraints, imposing your personal values or hang ups on the Indian world. What their practices are today I do not know.  Men in the Muslim world walk about holding hands which is appalling to westerners. Those of you who are jumping out of your skin over these cultural variations without looking into the cultural norms of those societies are displaying an amazing level of intolerance and ignorance, that is rising to the level of obscene. But that is just my opinion. When in Rome do as the Romans do… if these Indian mystics come to America and practice pedophilia I wholeheartedly endorse prosecution to the full extent of the law. Here it is illegal. But in their own countries it is the business of that society and that society alone.



Hi Recoverer: you have serious psychological problems my friend... now you want to reach into another culture and tell them how they should have behaved over a century ago... pardon my french but that is daft.  Just an opinion.

Men holding hands walking down the street in most american cities will get them killed or beat up... what planet are you on... do a reality check.

Tongue
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b2
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #82 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 7:10pm
 
Frankly, I'm extremely tired of hearing about which guru slept with what person or underage whoever. Listening to these stories over and over makes me sick to my stomach and I am beginning to find it a violation to have them repeated to this forum again and again.
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recoverer
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #83 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 7:35pm
 
We need to listen to our conscience, common sense and heart. Therefore, it is perfectly okay to say it is wrong when cultures do things such as own slaves, repress women and beat up men for holding hands.


Hi Recoverer: you have serious psychological problems my friend... now you want to reach into another culture and tell them how they should have behaved over a century ago... pardon my french but that is daft.  Just an opinion.

Men holding hands walking down the street in most american cities will get them killed or beat up... what planet are you on... do a reality check.

Tongue [/quote]
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I Am Dude
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #84 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 7:40pm
 
Well this thread went from being interesting and on topic to sucking and off topic.  Who is to blame?  BASHAR!!!
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But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.
 
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b2
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #85 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 7:55pm
 
Out of Body Dude, you are so right.

Gotta love him.
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Rondele
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #86 - Oct 28th, 2009 at 9:28pm
 
Dude-

I agree, Bashar made my evening! I finally gave in and watched 2 of his videos.

The guy should audition for a slot on Saturday Night Live.  He's wasting his talent pretending to channel space aliens.

He's a natural born comedian.  He just needs to control his coughing.

Thanks again.  It's been a long day, I needed the laughs.

R
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Alan McDougall
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #87 - Oct 29th, 2009 at 6:13am
 
It baffles me why someone has to go to a channelled demon to get supposed wisdom, yes they will get the wisdom of deception,

The greatest and purest form of wisdom is the lord Jesus

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Blessings and Light

Alan McDougall
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heisenberg69
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #88 - Oct 29th, 2009 at 12:02pm
 
Recoverer:

thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. Here is my responce to some of your points...

'The fact of the matter is that no matter how much a person including Walsch spins it, he called his books "Conversations with God."'

He does indeed but then many authors (from all genres) use God in the title of their books so Walsch is not alone in this (if you don't believe this type God in the Amazon search bar as I just did ! ). Its not so much using God in the title as how one defines "God". As I posted before 'God' means many things to many people. I think Walsch uses it in the sense of 'the best take on the Creator currently available to my limited understanding i.e. through my personal human filter. ' He freely acknowledges as we grow our view of God evolves - nothing stays 'set in stone'.

'Because the conversations are contrived and false things are said, I believe a person can see, if willing, that Walsch didn't actually speak to God'

This a personal opinion not an objective fact. How can anyone say definitively "thats not God but this is ?". A person can have a divine revelation but that will only be ' God truth' to that person. I think this is an important point because over the course of human history millions have been killed because people think their take on God is 'the real one' (its still going on).

'and boy has he benefited'

Surely successfull book sales means some people find meaning in what he says ( I bought four) - is'nt that a positive ?

'I wonder if he said anything to inspire people to view God with humility, respect, grattitude, reverence, loyalty and love'

But, Recoverer, those themes are a central part of his work !


'It is fine that people have the inclination to speak up for various sources of information, but it behooves them to be certain about what they are defending. To defend in a non-discriminitive manner serves no purpose' 

I agree !

Dave



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Alan McDougall
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Re: My problem with reincarnation and karma
Reply #89 - Oct 29th, 2009 at 12:34pm
 
Walsch is talking to himself and maybe in the process he has come up with a few truths but not any new truths

Alan
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Blessings and Light

Alan McDougall
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