Conversation Board - What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to?

Terethian Ex Member	Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to? Reply #30 - Sep 30^th, 2009 at 1:29pm For absolutely no reason whatsoever that I can figure out I feel better... for now. I still worry a little but I feel almost... ALMOST at peace. Wierd huh? I mean I am not even convinced... I just feel calmer now.
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Claudio Pisani Junior Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 86 Lauria, Italy Gender:	Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to? Reply #31 - Sep 30^th, 2009 at 1:43pm Hi, Bruce. I've made up a photo-shop to depict my own Meeting Place that you can see at this address: http://www.webalice.it/cipidoc/cascan.jpg I'm curious to know if it resembles your MP !
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Terethian

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Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to?
Reply #32 - Oct 2^nd, 2009 at 3:36pm

Have good spiritual mediums sometimes been unable to contact someone that has recently passed due to the person being unaware that they are dead and in an odd mental state or blackness etc.?

This would help confirm the statement that you may experience nothing or blackness / blackout for a time / long time when you die....

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Berserk2

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Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to?
Reply #33 - Oct 2^nd, 2009 at 3:47pm

Terethian,

After reading sevral books on channeled evidence, I am skeptical of the legitimacy of all channeled communications. But the cases that give me pause are those in which the contactee is unavailable for various reasons, such as Claudio's example.

Astral explorers have independently reported an odd phenomenon of lower planes called soul statues. Typically, these souls are oblivious to their surroundings and therefore seem very vulnerable to invasive intruders. They are surrounded by gloomy swamp-like conditions which apparently reflect their somber inner state. I suspect that soul statues are in fact experiencing a certain type of past life review discussed by ES. If so, they would surely be unavailable for mediumistic contact. In my view, those mediums who can always contact a loved one are clearly self-deluded.

Don

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recoverer

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Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to?
Reply #34 - Oct 2^nd, 2009 at 4:37pm

I really doubt that existence is set up so it isn't possible for people in this World to communicate with deceased loved ones, because to suggest such a thing is to suggest that for some reason an unbreakable barrier between the physical World and spirit World exists.

Outside of the fact of how it doesn't make sense to conclude that existence would be set up in such a way, much evidence, outside of what alleged mediums have to say, show that it is possible to communcicate with spirits that abide in a realm other than some sort of lower realm.

I believe that a number of well known mediums are frauds, but I don't believe this means all mediums are frauds.

Regarding mediums who come up with information that can be verified, and whether this information is the result of a medium unknowingly reading a person's mind, getting information from a misleading spirit who is pretending to be a deceased loved one, getting information from a deceased love one, or a light being who presents information on behalf of deceased loved one, for the most part, only a medium who has kept good track of the information he or she has received and analyzed it with good discernment can tell whether one of the first two possibilities or one of the later two possibilities provide an explanation as to where information received comes from.

I state that it is possible for a person to determine what is actually taking place, because after receiving many messages from spirits, I've found that it is possible to figure out what's taking place. Sure there might be occasions when confusion takes place, but this doesn't mean that confusion takes place all of the time.

I'm not certain, but I believe that Don believes that some sort of barrier is placed between people in this World and the World of spirit, because there is too much of a chance that a person will unwittingly be misled by a deceptive spirit.

As far as I'm concerned, to take such an approach is similar to making the choice to not leave your house, because you might run into unfriendly people. Some people might say its easier to discriminate people than it is to discriminate spirits, but considering how people do things such as follow fake gurus, have relationships with more than one abusive person, vote for politicians in an unwise way, "listen to fake mediums," etc., it's not that easy to discriminate people.

Whether a person deals with people or spirits, he needs to learn to discriminate in a discerning manner. Once he does so, he shouldn't let unfriendly people or spirits control him by limiting him. If he refrains from making contact with the spirit World because he allows deceptive spirits to deter him, he allows such spirits to gain a minor victory.

I say minor, because I believe that in the end deceptive spirits will fail. One of the reasons they will fail is because some people don't allow themselves to be intimidated by them, they go ahead and make contact with friendly spirits, and as a result can assist friendly spirits in the manner they need to be assisted.

If people find a way where they can make contact with friendly spirits, they'll find that they won't need to rely on somebody else to "possibly" communicate to a deceased loved one for them. In fact, they probably won't have such an inclination. They'll gain enough knowledge to realize that when a loved one moves on to the spirit World it is time to part ways until one rejoins the spirit World.

I say this with the thought that a person shouldn't weigh a deceased loved one down by being attached to this loved one or being concerned about this loved one. Say some prayers on a beloved one's behalf, and then allow he or she to get on with what he or she needs to take care of.

Outside of how making contact with my spirit guidance has enabled me to provide various types of spirit assistance, making contact has helped me grow spiritually in a very significant way. It would've been a big mistake for me to declare myself as unworthy and incapable of making contact in a meaningful way.

When we return to the World of spirit we'll be in contact with our guides, and there will be nothing wrong with being in contact, so how can it be a mistake to be in contact now? Is it wrong to be in contact with love now, because love is something that only belongs to the World of spirit? Of course not. If you make contact with a spirit who represents the light, then you make contact with love personified.

Some people don't want to make contact with spirit guidance because they want to be self dependent. I've found that being in contact with genuine guidance isn't opposed to self dependence. If fact, genuince guidance can help you find what self dependence is all about...in truth we are never separated from the oneness we are all a part of.

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Terethian

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Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to?
Reply #35 - Oct 3^rd, 2009 at 12:07am

One of the biggest drawbacks to the wide world of debate over The Afterlife
is that there is such a wide range of differing beliefs. We have so many religions, my parents are Jehovah's Witnesses, most people claim to be Christians, some people don't believe in God, some think we are God. Some believe in nothing. Some believe you are reincarnated right away. Some believe we are all part of a big collective consciousness and we return to it when we die. It's all so vast, differing, and frustrating. They can't all be right.

It's a fine line after all... there is either something, or nothing. Which is all that matters to me in the short term. I want to exist forever. I really fear this ceasing to exist very much. I am much calmer however. Somehow I calmed down a bit.

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b2

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Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to?
Reply #36 - Oct 9^th, 2009 at 7:28pm

Terethian, you said below: "It's all so vast, differing, and frustrating. They can't all be right."

Why not, Terethian? Why can't they all be right? Is that really impossible?

Quote:

One of the biggest drawbacks to the wide world of debate over The Afterlife
is that there is such a wide range of differing beliefs. We have so many religions, my parents are Jehovah's Witnesses, most people claim to be Christians, some people don't believe in God, some think we are God. Some believe in nothing. Some believe you are reincarnated right away. Some believe we are all part of a big collective consciousness and we return to it when we die. It's all so vast, differing, and frustrating. They can't all be right.

It's a fine line after all... there is either something, or nothing. Which is all that matters to me in the short term. I want to exist forever. I really fear this ceasing to exist very much. I am much calmer however. Somehow I calmed down a bit.

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Bruce Moen

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Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to?
Reply #37 - Oct 10^th, 2009 at 9:07am

Quote:

One of the biggest drawbacks to the wide world of debate over The Afterlife
is that there is such a wide range of differing beliefs. We have so many religions, . . . They can't all be right.

A long time ago, when I was in my late teens, I became completely dissolussioned with the religion I was raised in. They required their members to believe that new born infants, who had the misfortune to take one breath and then die without being baptised, were sent straight to eternal damnation in hell. That was the last straw. I just couldn't stick with a religion that believed Adam and Eve's Original Sin could logically and rightly lead to such an outcome.

I found myself faced with the task of trying to find the 'one true religion' so I could join that religion and be certain I would avoid entering the hell my previous religion had described after my eventual, certain death. So, I started studying the world's religions. What I was using as my standard of judgment was a simple criteria. There could be zero internally conflicting beliefs with a 'true religion.'

After studying lots of different religions, from Christian to Zen there wasn't a single religion I could find that met my simple criteria. Most had some form of All Loving/Vengeful God at the basis of their beliefs. In my way of thinking whatever God was It could be either one of those, but not both.

Eventually I realized that there were common threads that ran through most all religions. By that time I had given up any hope of finding the One True Religion and was willing to settle for The Truth about how one should live their lives to avoid eternal hell. (The hell of my former religion still had me worried as it described a really uncomfortable place to spend eternity)

I decided that while none of the religions I studied held the Truth to could keep me out of hell, whatever was common to the largest number of religions was probably closer to that Truth than any single one of them could ever be. With that I began to strive for adherence to those common threads. That relieved the pressure and let me get on with my life with less fear about hell.

Eventually I came to believe what I believe, for now, today. And I came to believe that nothing should be cause for anyone to change their beliefs about The Truth except their own, direct experience.

I hear you when you say . . .
Quote:

One of the biggest drawbacks to the wide world of debate over The Afterlife
is that there is such a wide range of differing beliefs.

And I would reply by saying that for me, what is common to all those differing beliefs is probably closer to the Truth (if such a Truth exists) than any one of them. But just listening to the debate wouldn't be very satisfying to me. I am the kind of person who has to be finding what to believe based on what I myself experience.

Enough! I will climb down off my soapbox now.

Bruce

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pedigree

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Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to?
Reply #38 - Oct 10^th, 2009 at 9:48am

Bruce Moen wrote on Oct 10^th, 2009 at 9:07am:

[quote author=58697E697864656D620C0 link=1253649466/35#35 date=1254542867] But just listening to the debate wouldn't be very satisfying to me. I am the kind of person who has to be finding what to believe based on what I myself experience.

Bruce

So true.

No matter what anybody says it is only through personal experience that you should turn it into 'belief' .

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heisenberg69

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Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to?
Reply #39 - Oct 10^th, 2009 at 12:22pm

I also looked at different religions coming from a largely secular background ( more common I think in the UK than US). I thought maybe humanism might be more appropriate for me as it seemed more people friendly. However, I also found it too limiting because it tends to be sceptical of spirituality adopting the current scientific paradigm of materialism.

However, I agree with the previous posters - why have an 'off the peg' belief system when you can use your direct experience...

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Alan McDougall Super Member Offline Posts: 2104 South Africa Gender:	Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to? Reply #40 - Oct 12^th, 2009 at 11:05am I really think most so called spiritual mediums are using telepathy and taping into the memory of their victims Alan
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heisenberg69

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Re: What are Spiritual Mediums REALLY connecting to?
Reply #41 - Oct 12^th, 2009 at 3:35pm

I must admit I used to believe that by definition mediums were hucksters using a mixture of cold-reading and bereaved gullibility to gain their 'hits'.I remember laughing when I heard that my mother-in-law was consulting a medium and as a 'science-type' dismissed it out of hand.

I now believe that my scepticism is no longer tenable. I changed my mind partly due to personal experience and partly to the increasingly sophisticated experiments by people such as Gary Schwartz (The Afterlife Experiments) and latterly by Julie Beischel at the Windbridge Institute (http://www.windbridge.org) which control for cold reading, rater bias, fraud etc. As for the 'reading mind' argument that becomes more unlikely in the face of many reported cases of information which the subject does not know and is later is revealed as correct. I also believe that ethical talented mediums can offer valuable help for the bereaved as long as the 'bad apples' are avoided.

So now when I hear sceptics start with 'so called mediums use a technique called cold-reading...' - I think to myself how does that work when sitter and medium are on different continents and a proxy sitter is used !

Dave

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