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Yolanda's NDE (Read 3842 times)
Berserk2
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Yolanda's NDE
Sep 19th, 2009 at 7:46pm
 
I am drawing this NDE account from Brennan Manning's new book, "The Furious Longing of God."  Brennan is one of the most prominent Christian retreat leaders in the US.  He shares his encounter with Yolanda (then age 37), a Mexican American woman who was confined the only leper colony for Hansen's Disease in the US at Carville, Lousiana. 

“As I was coming up the front steps, a nurse came running towards me:`Brennan, can you come quick and pray with Yolanda?  She’s dying, Brennan.’”

5 years ago, before Yolanda was struck with leprosy, she was a drop-dead gorgeous woman.  Now her nose was pressed into her face and her mouth was severely contorted.  She just had 2 little stumps where her fingers had once been!  2 years earlier, her husband had divorced her because of the social stigma attached to leprosy.  He had forbidden her 2 boys to ever visit their mother.  So Yolanda was dying, an abandoned, forsaken woman.
Brennan says: “I anointed Yolanda with oil and prayed with her.  It had been raining when I came in; but as I turned around to put the top back on the bottle, the room filled with brilliant sunlight…As I turned to look back at Yolanda—and if I live to be 300, I’ll never be able to find the words to describe what I saw—her face was like a sunburst over the mountains, like 1,000 sunbeams streaming over her face, literally so brilliant I had to shield my eyes.  I exclaimed: 'Yolanda, you appear to be very happy.'`Yes, Jesus' Father just told me He would take me home today.'  I asked her just what the Heavenly Father said.  She replied: 

`COME NOW, MY LOVE.  MY LOVELY ONE, COME.  FOR YOU, THE WINTER IS PAST, THE SNOWS ARE OVER AND GONE, FLOWERS ARE SPRINGING UP.  THE SEASON OF GLAD SONGS HAS COME: THE COOING OF TURTLEDOVES IS HEARD IN OUR LAND…COME NOW, MY LOVE, MY YOLANDA, COME LET ME SEE YOUR FACE.  LET ME HEAR YOUR VOICE. FOR YOUR VOICE IS SWEET & YOUR FACE IS BEAUTIFUL.'"

God was quoting almost verbatim Song of Songs 2:10-14.  But God inserted Yolanda's name into the quotation.  She was illiterate and had never read the Bible or any other book for that matter.  Nor had Brennan ever quoted this passage to her during prior visits.  “6 hours later, her little leprous body was swept up into the furious love of her heavenly Dad."

The Song of Songs was originally composed as erotic poetry, some of the earliest in human history.  It was included in the biblical canon because it was viewed as an allegory of God's love for His people.  In this sense, it fits neatly with all the biblical texts that portray God and Jesus as romantic suitors who approach and seduce us as mystical lovers when we are open and receptive to such a divine romance.

Don 
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« Last Edit: Sep 20th, 2009 at 9:00am by Berserk2 »  
 
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carl
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Re: Yolanda's NDE
Reply #1 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 3:12am
 
Hi Don. I'm just wondering as a previous lurker and now poster this question. If out of body experiences and astral traveling posts, including NDE's, and posts from other book authors and members of this website, don't have a Christian flavor or content in their writings, you'll dismiss them as false! Not 'real' as you interpret physical realness! Why is this so? Sincerely. Carl and Family.
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Berserk2
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Re: Yolanda's NDE
Reply #2 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 9:17am
 
Carl,

My own OBEs had a Christian flavor and were stunningly inspiring, but I now dismiss them as lucid dreams disguised as OBEs.  Not long ago, I heard two top lucid dream researchers celebrate how powerful their own OBEs were; then they added, smiling, "Of course, these OBEs were just lucid dreams."  It's so tempting to overlook the varied feeling tone of supposed OBEs and to confuse one state of consciousness with another due to wishful thinking.  In my view, many OBEs, whether Christian or otherwise,  are merely hallucinations that reinforced that percipient's religious or metaphysical viewpoints. Swedenborg and Monroe had genuiine OBEs, but I doubt that Dude has transcended lucid dream consciousness or its waking equivalent.  The lack of adequate verifications is a deafening silence.  Therefore, I seldom post on this site any more. 

Yolanda's NDE strikes me as genuine because of its potentially awesome verification. Brennan knew Song of Songs 2 very well and was in a position to monitor its beautiful quotation by an illiterate woman who seems to have never heard it before.

Don
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betson
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Re: Yolanda's NDE
Reply #3 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 9:28am
 
`COME NOW, MY LOVE.  MY LOVELY ONE, COME.  FOR YOU, THE WINTER IS PAST, THE SNOWS ARE OVER AND GONE, FLOWERS ARE SPRINGING UP.  THE SEASON OF GLAD SONGS HAS COME '

Hi Carl,

I'm not speaking for Don, of course, and maybe he's not ready to make a direct statement on this, but his posts this past year have shown a widening involvement with Christian mysticism.

Our souls are encouraged, I find, by any reference to 'the afterlife,' regardless of what religious adjectives are attached. -- It's the happenings (verbs) that count!

Bets


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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare
 
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b2
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Re: Yolanda's NDE
Reply #4 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 11:01am
 
...for anyone who is curious to see a direct comparison, here is the New International Version from the Blue Letter Bible website, and I don't know if it is accurate:

Sgs 2:10
My lover spoke and said to me, "Arise, my darling, my beautiful one, and come with me.

Sgs 2:11
See! The winter is past; the rains are over and gone.

Sgs 2:12
Flowers appear on the earth; the season of singing has come, the cooing of doves is heard in our land.

Sgs 2:13
The fig tree forms its early fruit; the blossoming vines spread their fragrance. Arise, come, my darling; my beautiful one, come with me."

Sgs 2:14
Lover My dove in the clefts of the rock, in the hiding places on the mountainside, show me your face, let me hear your voice; for your voice is sweet, and your face is lovely.
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Beau
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Re: Yolanda's NDE
Reply #5 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 11:37am
 
What leads to these lucid dream vs OBE discussions, it seems to me, is a lack of ability to explain the big picture from the little picture mentality. I feel Christianity is one of these little picture influences. I don't put much faith in faith but I do believe that if one does then they will find what they expect, just as with any belief system we've discussed here. One man's lucid dream is another man's (woman's) OBE. It is subjective and that is how it should be for individual growth.

I think Yolanda's NDE was beautiful and based on her faith. To say she was illiterate as proof of something higher at work does not hold water with me because these passages are repeated person to person all over the world, but that she had the experience is good enough for me.
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All the world's a stage...whose stage?--that is the question!...or is it the answer...Who is on first.
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tgecks
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Re: Yolanda's NDE
Reply #6 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 11:54am
 
I think it showed up like this because that was her belief structure. Just like with Bob Monroe..... He used to say that his books described his interpretation of what he "saw", and told people to go there and find out for themselves. It is different for everyone, I think, just as rainbows are unique for everyone (actually even for each eye). And it is this "perspective" unique to each one of us which is the Heart of the theory of relativity.....

Raw data is a bit different before our Interpretor makes it in to a story. And The Bible is a big front load, no?

But like Einstein said, "It is either all a miracle, or none of it is." Just my 2 cents.

Thomas
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Rondele
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Re: Yolanda's NDE
Reply #7 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 4:27pm
 
<The lack of adequate verifications is a deafening silence.  Therefore, I seldom post on this site any more.>

Don-

Yes, I agree that genuine verifications are lacking. 

However, the story about Yolanda also lacks verification.  Specifically, how do we know that Brennan Manning is providing a totally accurate account of Yolanda's experience?  None of us was there.

We are obligated to accept it on faith.

Let's assume a medium contacted a spirit claiming to be our deceased parent (or spouse or child or whomever).  And let's assume the medium gave us specific information that could not possibly have been known or researched in advance, such as the decedent's social security number.

We know from Swedenborg that the afterlife is full of deception.  No more so or less so than in this life.

So therefore, even getting information of that caliber would not necessarily mean that the medium actually contacted our deceased loved one.

Personally I don't think we'll ever get the kind of objective verification we desire.  There is a different kind of protocol in the afterlife. 

In fact, there is so much deception in the afterlife that ES declined to honor requests from friends to check on their deceased loved ones.  He came to understand that "information" he received via such requests was not always credible.

Anyway, I wish you'd reconsider your position of not posting here.  Or at least inform us where you DO post.  Smiley

R

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Re: Yolanda's NDE
Reply #8 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 6:33pm
 
I was touched by this NDE and encounter.  I am a bit confused, because most cases of Leprosy are treated with a multi-drug regimen - so unless this story was from many decades ago, it seems a bit odd that she died of a treatable disease in modern times.

My gut feeling tells me that this was a beautiful, genuine account of a NDE and subsequent death of a person who suffered and was lifted up at the end of her earthly life. 

Yet, I can take the analytic approach, or as Roger mentions question the events and story, and just to be fair, to apply equal measures to religious based NDE accounts, as to ones not associated with religion (see Mellen-Thomas Benedict's account), I will raise a few questions:

According to the account, Yolanda states to Brennan that she was spoken to by "Jesus' Father," who told her that he was going to take her to heaven.  She certainly had some rudimentary knowledge of Jesus and Christianity.  Had she, in years past heard the Song of Songs, at some point?  Who could know that she had not (whether she could read written words or not - was she not a child once, raised by Christian parents, etc.) 

Was Brennan's account accurate, or did he take poetic license as an author? (he had, at one point written about and been plagued with alcoholism, which certainly may change short term and long term memories.)?

Most accounts of NDEs are experienced by the person while clinically dead, while onlookers are completely unaware of any of the happenings on a spiritual/mental plane.  Father Brennan, however, was the one who saw brilliant light surrounding Yolanda.  Could he not, have been the one experiencing the NDE, along with Yolanda? 

In the end, whether she quoted verbatim from the Song of Songs or did not, in no way diminishes the verification of a true NDE.  Here she was, dying, and she conveyed being told by God that she was beautiful, that the winter was over and that it was time for her to shed her physical body and be accepted in heaven.  I find the quotation from Song of Songs to be interesting but it really was meant more for Brennan to interpret - almost as if it were directed at him. 

Many seniors, prior to dying in a nursing home or hospital are seen to have "pre-death" conversations with departed loved ones or other figures a very short time prior to death.  Why do some hear from departed loved ones, while others, far fewer in number hear from God or Jesus?  Perhaps they are open to it in some way.  Or, perhaps their souls need this encounter to let go. 

Matthew
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carl
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Re: Yolanda's NDE
Reply #9 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 12:46am
 
Thanks Don, and thank you all for your comments! They are all applicable, as they come from your hearts! Sincerely. Carl and Family
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Re: Yolanda's NDE
Reply #10 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 10:50pm
 
So far, the discussion overlooks 2 key points:
(1) During her NDE, Yolanda's indoor NDE caused her face to shine so brightly that Brennan had to shield his eyes.  His point is that this was much more than ordinary sunlight. 

(2) It seems very unlikely that Yolanda would have heard someone quote Song of Songs 2:10-14.  I preached on this text last Sunday, and the lifelong Christians present had never heard a sermon on the Song of Songs.  If a Christian reads this book at all, she usually reads it in terms of its original intention, as erotic poetry--some of the earliest in human history.  Brennan lived in New Orleans at the time and served as her priest for several years.  He had never mentioned this Song to her, though he himself knew it well enough to recognize her mostly accurate quotation of it.  It is very unlikely that an illiterate Mexican American could quote such a detailed text even if she had heard it several years ago or that she would realize that early Christianity read this book as an allegory of God's [or Christ's] love. 

Don   
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