I'm an unfortunate who is straddling two different yet somehow convergent worlds.

The world view in this particular group is based largely on OBE, NDE and an inferred belief that life is a school, we come here by choice and decide our destinies before we incarnate.

We can trace the origins of this belief systems to some questionable characters including Crowley, etc, as well as some very reputable characters, including Mr. Moen.

The other compelling view started life in 1950 with the publication of Dianetics and later its spiritual counterpart Scientology. It continues to live outside and independently of the "Church", in the form of an internet community who have broken away.

This view , holds that the physical universe is a spiritual trap, one which ultimately leads to the spirit being converted into more "playing field" - MEST - Matter, Energy, Space and Time. (References available on request). In other words, we are trapped here, and inevitably will be converted into a (for example) Rock. This happens over millions or billions of years, and is a result of the slow decay of the Spirit. This accounts for the expansion of space. Everything we see around us , used to be alive, in the form of spirit, and is now "committed".

A strong proponent of this belief system is the membership only yahoogroup, Techs4Reality.

Anyway, both of these belief systems are very compelling, and need a lifetime of dedication in order to attain mastery.

So which do I choose? Do I choose the more reassuring one? Both systems have absolute master practitioners.

Has anyone else here had to choose between these two belief systems?

I need help choosing.

Anyone casually reading this, who doesn't know anything about "Clearing Technology", should avoid commenting, since their comments would be based on pure prejudice and ignorance.

"Clearing Technology" is real and it may be the solution we have been looking for. I don't want to throw it away, just because I find this one (ala Bruce Moen) more reassuring.

If anyone can understand, it is a weight I carry on my shoulders, because I don't know which way (direction) to head the rest of my life.

If some people can testify that in view of what they have experienced on the Astral, Clearing Technology is bollocks, perhaps it will help my dilemma.

Highly conflicted, confused, etc.

Neil

In the end, there's not a fundamental opposition between life as school and life as trap. I think it can be both. There comes a day when one graduates from school. And haven't we all found more or less school is a kind of prison?

I don't know details about the clearing method. I only saw a report on tv what "auditing" is. What makes me sceptical about it is, it is very easy to misuse, like a brainwashing.

There are traditional techniques to break free from the physical world's grip, all traditional forms of meditation, as far as I know, try to do this (though some have as well the element of returning to the physical again), but Zen Buddhism probably comes closest to be a method of "clearing" in this specific sense, without the risk of misuse being as high as in auditing (while there's still the risk becoming overly devoted to the master, or having a bad master).

Spooky

Spooky -

Thanks for your observation that life can be both a school and a trap. This has led me to a lot of reflection, that perhaps I have been too fast to want to choose between one system or the other, when in fact, they may be mutually inclusive systems.

Betson - Yes, I am indeed looking for anything which will help my travels on the non-physical. And its a shame this subject hasn't been discussed here. People tend to discard Clearing Technology , as soon as they hear the association to Scientology, because of all the bad press. "Scientology" is more or less a swear word, and people do not realize that from it has sprung many different systems of thought, including those who have been "excommunicated" during the inquisition of the 80's, who continued on to greater things. Alan C Walter is a good example, having started Knowledgism. He just changed all the terminology which was Trademarked by the RTC (Scientology's watchdog, Religious Technology Center), so that he could carry on practicing (and growing a completely divergent system).

Mathew - I enjoyed reading what you had to say on the topic. This is the way I would prefer to think about life, however, looking around at life on this planet has lead me to the conclusion that something else is going on. In general, if you look around and see all the strife, my interpretation is that we could very well be in a prison colony, much like Australia was when it started out. Except that we're one of the prison colonies for this universe.

I think anyone who would actually choose to come to this planet for any kind of experience, would be akin to someone choosing to spend his whole life in prison, just to experience it. Such a person, who chose prison, would be considered quite looney. Well, I look around this planet, and that's what I see. A place where you would never send your worst enemy ever, and if you did accidentally send him there, you would never rest another day until you had set him free.

Anyway that is my experience of this planet. Clearing Technology itself is such a varied and rich subject, that I think there are tens of thousands of pages of work available on the Internet. Works by Geoffrey Filbert, Ken Ogger (the Pilot), L. Kin, Alan C Walter to name a very few.

I found NDE's and OBE after having been exclusively in the Free Zone (that's what Scientology outside of Scientology calls itself) camp. I have been much encouraged by the views that I have read , and by my resulting experiences. However, whereas material in the Free Zone in very technical, detailed and in a way scientific, my experience in this other world view, as detailed so well by Mathew, is that it is somewhat nebulous. The testimonies of thousands of NDE's all point towards something - but... this Universe has been termed as consisting of layers and layers of lies upon lies upon lies, how do we know that this is not yet another layer in the lie, constructed as an opiate for the people who discover it? That is my major and honest concern with this world view.

I have never honestly made much progress in the Free Zone world, despite  my being associated some 20 years now. I've made more progress in the world of OBE's having had some incredible lucid dreams.

So I KNOW FOR A FACT, that we can be in other realities which seem as real as this one (created by our minds alone) - but my question is quite technical - are these other realities the same as this one, or does the construction of this universe seem different, to the astral traveller? I haven't had enough experience on the astral to find that out. Because if this universe is simply a signal we tune into, just like the other astrals, (go into phase with), then this goes a long way to disproving the theory that MEST (matter) is spirit.

Anyway it matters not. I was reminded by Spooky's posting that there is nothing to be feared more than fear itself, and even if we are in a place of despair, then being in a state of terror is enough in itself to defeat us. So it would be pointless worrying about it. The only logical thing to do would be to look around, try and find out more, and then do something about it, and one can't do that when being terrified. I believe fear is a mighty weapon which can allow a small army to overcome a much bigger, well organized army.

Thus, fear could itself conquer a seemingly invincible thing - the spirit itself.

I am focusing on this area (OBE's etc - Mathew's world view) at the moment. I believe that it is time well spent, and for me at the moment, it is the most practical pursuit.

However, it doesn't stop me going back and marvelling at some of the stuff in the Free Zone. Take the Pilot's 'Super Scientology' - 'Cosmic History' for example. It is the most fascinating (and detailed) account of the rise and fall of the universes that I have read. I can give pointers to the document if anyone is interested.

Neil

Spooky,

Along similar lines, "if you want to be where you wanna be, then you must be where you are."

Here is a good introduction to the material of which I speak:

http://www.censorthis.com/ouran/ghosthome.html

recoverer wrote on Aug 24^th, 2009 at 2:50pm:


Clearing is more a dismantling (enumeration?) of reality than it is a belief system.

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Naah, this is just bad PR. Not that many intelligent people would be stupid enough to follow a made up religion. And not that many intelligent people would duplicate and extend on the technology which he developed.

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He pioneered a technique which many expanded on. If its worth anything, its for real, as real as we will find anything discussed on this board. He was for real, but he wasn't perfect. Others have taken his works to greater heights.

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We really can't get away from it. As soon as you enter the realm of the spiritual, you have entered Belief System Territory. Who says your belief system is better than mine? Bruce Moen, TMI, Monroe, Crowley etc are all part of a very strong and compelling belief system.

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Yes. Let me give you the other side of the story. Scientology is a cult which has destroyed families and led to great controversy which has filled many books.

However, the FREE ZONE (spiritual open source) has distilled and improved on original material and moved it into a space where it cannot be isolated and attacked by the Cof$ - the Internet.

Scientology was hijacked and raped - by our wonderful colleagues , human beings, and many would say in the name of money and power.

However, on the plus side Cof$ has given many people a purpose in life, and to those actively involved in it, I wish them the best of luck.

I got out of it personally years ago. I could see clearly where it would take me.

However, you wouldn't believe me if I told you, so maybe you might consider reading up - especially on the link I posted above - that out of Scientology has been born technologies which might eventually help us all to get out of this trap. However, it is being done very quietly and without much fanfare, because Scientology considers people who practice anything related to Scientology outside of Scientology as enemies - fair game. And they're not an organization which deals with things with kid glove on. They're a gloves-off kind of organization.

We believe some people have paid the ultimate price for going up against this organization publicly.

Neil

balance wrote on Aug 25^th, 2009 at 6:06am:


Sorry the comment wasn't addressed at you personally. I'm lamenting the general human condition. Your comment was perfectly in line with the way people usually react... so please don't take it personally.

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Mathew, yes actually most of the responses have been quite level headed including yours. At least you've read up on the system and probably know more than most.

Your assessment of the technology is quite accurate except that people have taken it much further than Hubbard did. In the church itself Hubbard was the only "source" allowed, but on the Internet this is obviously not the case.

I wish I had a talent for assessing TRUTH, for then I could resolve my dilemma. But I guess I will have to carry on looking for myself to find out.