Terethian,

It is truly sad that people feel such a need to make you feel good that they blindly accept the evidence of one word, that for me, is clear evidence of ESP gleaned from your mind rather than actual contact with Cindy.  Notice that the medium had to ask you for her name and how she died.  Notice also that you were given a word in the song title, not the title itself or "Meatloaf."

The capacity of some mediums for ESP is truly remarkable.  I once took a date to the New England Flower Show.  Quickly bored, I noticed 2 card readers sitting at a table.  I had never done anything like this before and was very skeptical.  The Tarot card reader was too expensive ($35); so I paid $5 for the other reader, a fiery gal who read regular playing cards.  My date scoffed at the reader and walked off to see more flowers.  The reader's first comment was: "Well, you're going to dump that chick soon!" I was amused at her revenge.   Actually my date and I  were incompatible.  Then the reader asked me to pick 3 cards.  When I did she made 2 predictions: (1) You are good with youth and will be working closely with them soon.  (2) In the next couple of days, you will receive a job offer from an "exotic" place, but I would not accept it.  I pointed out that, as an extremely busy single grad student, I wanted nothing to do with kids.  In fact, at that time I wouldn't even date a gal with kids.  As for the job offer, I hadn't even applied for a job; so how could I get a job offer from an "exotic" place? 

Two days later, I received a phone call from Memorial University in St. John's Newfoundland.  The caller offered me a summer job to teach in their university.  I declined because my doctoral thesis was still in its infancy and I knew I'd never finish it if I left Cambridge.  Newfoundland is a pretty "exotic" place to be offered a job for which I had not applied. And the reader was right: it was not in my best interest to accept the offer.

That week my Harvard thesis advisor called me to ask why I hadn't completed the first chapter of my dissertation.  I made the typical excuses, but then he revealed the real reason for his call.  He was the President of the Arlington Youth Soccer Federation and he needed a coach for an Under-12 boys team.  Someone had told him that I played soccer in Canada and so he thought he'd ask me to coach.  I didn't want to mess with these little brats, but how could I refuse my thesis advisor?  So I reluctantly agreed.  Well, I coached those boys for 3 years, and it was one of the most satisfying experiences of my life.  They were all my adopted sons and we even made to the Middlesex County Final one year, only to lose 2-1 in the championship game.  So the reader was right about my affinity with children and about her prediction that I would soon get an opporunity to coach with them. 

Don

Goodness Don, you seem to be so intent on dismissing mediums and psychics that even when you're provided with good evidence you dismiss it as telepathy.

I believe it is possible that Terethian obtained a verification he was looking for. To quickly dismiss it because it doesn't go along with a theory one clings to strongly, doesn't seem like a supportive thing to do. I don't believe that you have a factual basis for concluding that telepathy was involved.

If one received spirit information on a regular basis one would understand why a person might receive "dashboard" rather than "Meatloaf." Going by my experiences, spirits don't communicate in the same way we communicate. Rather than using vocal chords, they use thoughts and imagery. It could be that the lady Terethian spoke to didn't receive all of the words that were sent--she only received "dashboard."

It is also possible that Terethian received "dashboard" rather than "Meatloaf," because a particular song was being pointed to, rather than the artist Meatloaf.


Terethian:

Your doubt is understandible.  Bruce mentioned on another thread how long it took before he was convinced that he was making afterlife contact. I found the same.

Consider it this way, before we make contact with the spirit realm, a big part of our mind is conditioned to believe that the afterlife doesn't exist. In order to have a sense of orientation and to feel psychologically secure, a part of our mind creates a viewpoint of what reality is all about, and isn't open to considering what other viewpoints have to say.

At the same time, we can have an aspect of mind that seeks to find out what spiritual reality is about. This aspect of mind is in conflict with the part of our mind that isn't open to knowing about spiritual reality.

When we have an experience that confirms what we're seeking, the part of our mind that seeks such verification becomes excited. Not long afterwards the part of our mind that is attached to thinking in an old way becomes involved and we doubt what we understood a moment before.

If we keep at it while remaining honest about what we're doing, we'll eventually reach the point where the doubtfull part of our mind no longer has its knowledge lacking influence on us.

It can take time, even when experiences are quite convincing as they happen.

Say you went to medium #2, and you received 'perfect' proof of an afterlife beyond the death of the physical body. So, now, after that, you are completely convinced. Okay, now, you have your proof, so mind-blowing that you just cannot argue with it whatsoever....

How would your life change? With the reassurance that you will 'live on' after death, what will change in you?

I suppose I am wondering if you might then begin to worry about the manner of your future 'death' etc. etc.?

I am not trying to devalue your quest, but it does make me wonder about the consequences of 'knowing' that there is an afterlife.

If I prove that there is no such thing as an afterlife I will divorce my wife and begin a life of pleasure. I will only do exactly what I want, the only stipulation is that I will also do nothing that harms my body and I will become an extreme scientist that has his brain kept alive so he cannot die, oh and if I do die I will be frozen.

So yes, I think it's much better that I prove that there IS an afterlife, that way I follow our conscience.

Terethian,

If you could somehow convince yourself there was no such thing as an afterlife, why would you divorce your wife and lead a life of transient pleasure?  I assume that the divorce would destroy her and harm you as well.  The rules of karma (which are not dependent on there being an afterlife)suggest that what comes around, goes around.  Do you really think you would be happier with brief indulgent flings that meant nothing?  Most bachelors eventually tire of that existence and long for the deeper love found in a union - I know that sounds trite, but its true.

For me, the knowledge of my spirit and an afterlife is important.  I have not had the "perfect" verification of the afterlife as yet, but I have experienced my soul opening up to a deeper love that is not based on my own personal desires.  I have seen personally how our intent and spirit and that of others can cause things to happen in the physical world - from healings to a synchronicity of events too coincidental to be caused by random happenings.  In short, I have cause enough to believe that we are more than our physical bodies.

With this knowledge, how could any of us not seek a path of something greater than a temporary thrill or stroking of our own ego?  Not that I would begrudge anyone a mind blowing orgasm - only that if that is all you are about, then misery wouldn't be too far off.

I am reminded of that syndicated show "Sex in the City," in which one of the characters, Samantha has sex with a different man every week.  At some point, she had a flu, and depite having a little black book of phone numbers of dozens of men - she had no one to care for her or make her chicken soup when she was ill.  She was suddenly struck with the idea that when it came down to it, she had no man who really cared for her at all.

I posted recently about Swedenborg's theory of several stages after death.  If we are true to our "interiors," our deepest inclinations and motivations, then we would act as we truly felt - be it staying in a marriage, charity, or any of our relationships.  It is only on earth where we can wear our exterior masks, and feel one way, but act another.

Matthew

For me It's not that simple.

If there is NO afterlife and I can prove there is no afterlife, the answer is not to pretend I believe there is one.....

The answer in this case is simply not to accept death as an option. I will be the first man to never die. I will devote my life to stopping my death.

To reiterate, I love my wife. But it is a practical kind of love... not the childish kind. I know the extent of my love for her and how it works.

I married my wife because I want someone to be there when I need them.

I married her for this reason alone. For my own selfish purposes. I want her there when I need her and comfort. I am "generally" there for her when she needs me but I could not honestly say it's 100% equal.

Generally, I prefer her not around most of the time. This applies to all living beings. I only want them around me on my terms, and as needed.

This is me, my nature. I accept it, I enjoy it. The reason I would divorce her (if there is no AL) is because I would not limit myself to any one person, that way things can be interesting and limitless. With one person there are always certain limits.

/shrug. I am inherently a good person yet at the same time as evil as they get. I just keep the evil hidden for the sake of it mattering. To me, in my mind, if I continue to exist past my death then I want to live a "decent" and "proper" life.

But... if this one shot is all I have....well.... Let's party like there is no tomorrow, cause there isn't.

'If there is NO afterlife and I can prove there is no afterlife, the answer is not to pretend I believe there is one.....,'

...but how could you ever get that proof ? Its not logically possible for in the same way you could always have an 'out' to perpetuate your disbelief you could always have an 'out' to perpetuate belief....


Regarding selfishness, one could argue that any act is essentially selfish; for example volunteering for no financial gain makes us feel better about ourselves - the payoff is 'feel good vibes'.

I think all that changes is that as we progress our vision of 'me' or 'I' i.e who we really are expands to include other people, the planet and ultimately the universe.This may not be our experience now but the one consistent in life is change...

Dave