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Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing (Read 22241 times)
recoverer
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Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Apr 28th, 2009 at 5:42pm
 
Neale claims that he had a memory gaff and mistook his own experience for something he read, yet his memory was clear enough to plagiarize with precise words.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/books/07book.html
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Rondele
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #1 - Apr 28th, 2009 at 5:55pm
 
I read his Conversations with God, and to me it was a copy of ACIM.  He just took the concepts and pretended he was getting the information straight from God.

It's really upsetting that frauds like this guy mislead so many sincere people.

He's laughing all the way to the bank.
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recoverer
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #2 - Apr 28th, 2009 at 5:59pm
 
Yeah, but what happens when he no longer has a physical body to make use of a bank?

rondele wrote on Apr 28th, 2009 at 5:55pm:
I read his Conversations with God, and to me it was a copy of ACIM.  He just took the concepts and pretended he was getting the information straight from God.

It's really upsetting that frauds like this guy mislead so many sincere people.

He's laughing all the way to the bank.

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« Last Edit: Apr 29th, 2009 at 12:38pm by recoverer »  
 
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Mark Andrew
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #3 - Apr 28th, 2009 at 10:35pm
 
Fuel for the atheist/skeptic fire.  *sigh*
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Berserk2
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #4 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 2:14am
 
Albert,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.  Over the years, many people have cited Walsch's "Conversations with God" series as if it were divinely inspired Scripture. Gullibility is a major reason why the astral claims of so-called New Age adepts are not taken seriously by the thinking public.  You can get rich at New Agers' expense simply by identifying the voice in the back of your head with God!  How sad!  How frustrating it when posters equate uncritically dreams about a deceased loved one with genuine contact.

At least, the absurd past lives astral recalled by Bob Monroe were deluded confections, not outright fraud (e. g. a life as a pilot flying close to spear-throwing cave men; a prior wife with his wife Nancy in which he was a Catholic monk who used a knife to ritually torture her against her will as part of his erotic initiation ceremony).  This sort of nonsense illustrates why I insist not only on detailed verification, but also replication by independent adepts.   Maybe this expose will be a disillusioning wake-up call for honest seekers.

Don
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Volu
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #5 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 9:54am
 
..or it can be viewed as practising your discernment. Some has good intentions, but that doesn't mean what they present is good for ones path. Others can perhaps deliberately mislead, for various reasons like money, guru status and so on. You're the master. You choose to read it. You choose not to read it. You choose to read bits of it. You choose whether to go with all of it, something or nothing at all.

Back in the day, I was excited about the first book. The second and third book gradually started to piss me off. The outlined progression was lacking, and instead a rehashing of the first book. Now I feel no interest whatsoever for none the books. It was right for me at that moment. Now it's not. Change.
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betson
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #6 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 10:52am
 
Hi

One thing that makes any non-physical information difficult to evaluate is that the writer may sometimes be speaking about experience that replicates physical situations and yet at other times be describing scenes that were set up as metaphors.

So for example seeing a pilot in a plane shooting spears at cavemen might stand for an advanced person being way ahead/beyond (in understanding, in capabilities) of the groups 'below him'.
A dream, vision, or even a Biblical parable that showed a monk torturing a woman might mean he cut her with his monk's weapons, i.e., his teachings.
Perhaps these insights to himself were not appropriate to publish?

As Volu said it, some good may be gained from some teachings at some stages of life. For each person those somes are different.

But plaguerizing is a different matter. Sorry to twist your thread, Recoverer.

Bets


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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #7 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 1:50pm
 
Don:

Perhaps it is significant that Robert Monroe shared past life experiences that are questionable.  You would think that if he was trying to pull the wool over our eyes, he would come up with more believable stories.

Regarding the aircraft/spear chucking story, he clearly stated that the story didn't come from this planet. Perhaps what he experienced was a symbolic way of his finding that his I-there had a previous lifetime where advanced beings shared the same planet with beings that weren't as advanced as his race of beings. I say symbolic, partly because it is hard to believe that natives would bother with throwing spears at an aircraft, because they couldn't throw a spear so far.  

Regarding the priest thing, I don't believe he said anything about becoming a Catholic priest. The word priest is used for religious orders that aren't Catholic. In Far Journeys, Robert used words that make it seem as if Catholicism wasn't involved. Even if Catholicism was involved, perhaps what he experienced was a symbolic way of saying that the Church he became a member of made a big point making certain new priests were pure hearted, because the church had problems with priests who took advantage of people sexually. If it can happen today, it can happen anytime.

Regarding the W.C. Fields thing, which wasn't a past life experience, I don't find it hard to believe that an alien being would present itself to Robert in such a way, because going by my experiences, spirit beings have a sense of humor.  I figure different races of beings learn all kinds of things from each other. Why not about humor?

There have been numerous times where information has been presented to me in a symbolic way. For various reasons, on some occasions, it works better to present information in such a way. You've heard the expression, "A picture is worth a thousand words." For a similar reason symbolic messages are received, rather than having a person go through a long literal experience. After a while you know that you can trust symbolic messages and you learn to appreciate the brevity.
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« Last Edit: Apr 29th, 2009 at 7:05pm by recoverer »  
 
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #8 - Apr 29th, 2009 at 8:13pm
 
From the article, below are key words from Walsch:

"I have told the story verbally so many times over the years that I had it memorized ... and then, somewhere along the way, internalized it as my own experience.”

So what is he expecting people to believe? That numerous times he would start sharing the story by saying that a lady named Candy Chand shared this story...and then one day, from one meeting to the next, he said: "One day I attended my son's kindergarten pagent..."

One would think that if he repeated the part about Candy Chand, this part of the story would be etched in his memory.


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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #9 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 7:13pm
 


He has been quite successful--monetarily. I wonder what he truly
does believe.  No matter what his own experiences have been,
I think most will now find his claims unworthy of attention.

Perhaps he has been subconsciously wanting to abandon his
public persona as "mouthpiece" for God.  It's difficult to imagine
thinking that plagiarizing published writing wouldn't be detected.
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #10 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 9:28pm
 
Lots of people have copied...Doris Kearns Goodwin, Martin Luther King, Jr., lots in between.  So what? In some instances it is considered the highest form of flattery (told to me by an attorney).

Maybe the worst victim of an instance of integrity-slip is the person himself, but not because there is anything intrinsically wrong with what he did, but because it cuts one's integrity with one's self. And in order to walk on water, you need perfect integrity.
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spooky2
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #11 - Apr 30th, 2009 at 11:44pm
 
Wow Lucy! Lots of power in your post!

Spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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Rondele
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #12 - May 1st, 2009 at 11:05am
 
Lucy-

It's ok to copy as long as the author acknowledges the source.  Otherwise it's plagiarism plain and simple.  And the fact that other people have done it is really not relevant.

But more to the point, Walsch has already admitted fabricating his so-called "conversations" with God.  What he actually did was read ACIM and then merely reconfigured its "teachings" into alleged direct conversations with God.

That is morally wrong and frankly repugnant.  Yes, he has managed to build an entire cult of followers and, like any other cult, its members find it hard if not impossible to face the truth when the perpetrator is exposed.

Same thing, by the way, could be said about Sylvia Browne.
R
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #13 - May 1st, 2009 at 12:51pm
 
Candy Chand didn't consider it a form of flatery.  In fact, if one reads the article closely, she was very unhappy about Walsch doing as he did.

It isn't simply a matter of whether or not Walsch plagiarized somebody. When he was caught doing so,  as opposed to just admitting that he did so, it seems as if he tried to cover for himself by stating that he told the story numerous times as if it wasn't the result of his own experience, and then suddenly one day, despite the repetition of telling it as somebody else's story, he suddenly started to tell the story as if it is something that took place at his son's kindergarten pagent. This is quite a specific detail.  What does it say of his honesty if he is willing to "try" to cover himself in such a way?

Just because plagiarism happens a lot, that doesn't make it okay.

There are various reasons for which I don't believe that Walsch channeled God; however, one recent fact, in my mind, helps establish this fact.  He titled a book called "Happier than God." Now I'm not the sort of guy that gets in the worship mode, yet I believe that anybody who has felt God's presence in a substantial way, wouldn't name a book in such a way. To me, the title lacks reverence, humility and grattitude. The title isn't the biggest transgression in the World. But I don't believe it is a title that somebody who has been in contact with God would choose. If anything, the title sounds like a title a person would choose if he or she is trying to market a book and the CDs, DVDs, workshops, calendars, playing cards and Nitendo game that follow. I didn't read the book, so I can't speak of its content.

Is there anything that is sacred?
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Re: Neale Donald Walsch caught plagiarizing
Reply #14 - May 1st, 2009 at 1:01pm
 
Rondelle:

People who are new age often believe that belief systems are a religious thing, not a new age thing, but often new age sources have followings that are more cult like than religious teachings. Just as it is very difficult to find a person who will question his or her religion, it is very difficult to find a new age person who will seriously question a channeled source. They claim that they do so, then make excuses for all kinds of discrepancies.

Perhaps they should remove the mote from their own eyes, before they conclude that religious people are going to end up at focus level 25, while new age people run into Seth, Hillarion, Elias, whoever spoke to Helen Schuchman, in a realm higher than focus 25.


rondele wrote on May 1st, 2009 at 11:05am:
Lucy-

It's ok to copy as long as the author acknowledges the source.  Otherwise it's plagiarism plain and simple.  And the fact that other people have done it is really not relevant.

But more to the point, Walsch has already admitted fabricating his so-called "conversations" with God.  What he actually did was read ACIM and then merely reconfigured its "teachings" into alleged direct conversations with God.

That is morally wrong and frankly repugnant.  Yes, he has managed to build an entire cult of followers and, like any other cult, its members find it hard if not impossible to face the truth when the perpetrator is exposed.

Same thing, by the way, could be said about Sylvia Browne.
R

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