Thanks Still_Living!

Thanks Bruce, I have a better understanding!
Aras

 The main theory that i've heard, makes a lot of sense to me.   It's a matter of vibration resonance.   Many guides are vibrating at super fast frequencies, and while they can slow it down a bit, its hard for them to slow down to the "levels" that most stuck people resonate to and within.

It's analogous to why many humans have a hard time perceiving, especially in a clear way, many nonphysical beings, even those who are stuck.  
We're so focused within this narrow, and slow vibrating frequency band we call "physical", that until we speed up our own inner frequencies and focus less on physical, we don't have a whole lot of sucess in clear communication with the nonphysical in general.  

 Human retrievers act as a "grounding connector" between the stuck person who is vibrating closer to physical than they are to what the guides are, and the guides who are in super fast vibrating dimensions.  
Some guides (more rare than your average guide), like the ultimate guides like Yeshua, however on are on a different page altogether.  They can exist fully in physical, and in every other dimension and non dimension (i.e. pure Spirit) simultaneously.   For a "guide" to achieve this, they have to achieve while still in physical, and that seems to be a hard process to achieve in our general space/time cycle.  In the last couple thousand years, there has been probably only a couple handfuls or so, who have achieved this (the numbers seem to be picking up quickly though.).

 What's so implausible about the first part/explanation?   It's based on the law of like attracts, begets, resonates with, and perceives like law, which when it comes to perception and perceiving, always works inversely from the faster vibrating dimension down.   Meaning, the slow vibrating level cannot perceive the faster vibrating level until it changes within self to match those frequencies, BUT the faster vibrating level can perceive all levels "below" it in frequency.  

 

I will amend my last post somewhat in response to your reply.   It's not so much a problem or matter of a guide focusing in the slower vibrating dimension, but the stuck person's ability to perceive them because even when the guide does focus in that similar focus level, its really not of that vibration but a higher vibration than the stuck person.  

 So, no matter how hard the guide tries to get the attention of said stuck person, it can be very difficult just because the stuck person is more or less "blind" to the guide.  

 A human comes in, because many stuck nonphysicals can still perceive physical energies--because in many cases they still think they are physical.

 Physical is slower vibrating than even stuck nonphysical levels.  

See?  That's why stuck people can perceive us much better than they can perceive most guides.  That's why humans are often integral to this process because we can make the stuck person more aware of the guide, in various ways, both consciously and unconsciously.

 As i've said, there are some guides that somehow merge their nonphysical and physical natures and come out with attributes of both.  I don't completely understand the process myself, but Yeshua i believe has shown it to be true.

 Re: retrieval verifications, and all that jazz.  What's a verification for one, may not be for another.   A lot of what happens in such spiritual work goes beyond the intellect, and knowings come in oft as strong feelings.  Sure, we can delude ourselves, particuarly when there is a strong emotional attachment involved like with you and Janet, but often there is not much reason to delude oneself because one is more detached to the situation.  

 Why is there a lack of specific names, dates, etc. in some or many retrievals?   Maybe there are two main reasons, some are not that good as translating nonphysical info into physical language--i can attest to this with two remote viewing practices i did and while they contained definite hits, were also distorted and unclear.
 
2, maybe most people aren't as obsessed with such verifications as you are, and therefore don't' seek them.  Remember that whole "ask and you shall receive thing"?

 Re: verifications in general, there are a couple of cases in the Cayce readings wherein he gave very specific "past" life info for a person in a time period not that far in the past (meaning, not so far that its beyond checking).   In a case or two of these, the person who received this info, went digging into various records and found that it did jibe mostly with what Cayce said.

 Would you consider such examples to be verifications for other lives and the reality of some kind of reincarnation?

 How much does something need to be verified, before it is verified in your eyes?  

 If your standards are that exacting and specific, why not provide such retrieval verifications for yourself, since you do believe in retrievals since Christ performed them?   Looking to others can be limiting.  
 The nice thing about what Bruce says and teaches, is that he says to do it yourself, and figure it out for yourself, rather than relying on another or an institution or dogma to tell you the truth of something, or not.

Don:

Do you remember what George Ritchie wrote when he described his NDE account? He wrote that light beings hover over beings in a lower realm, as they wait for them to become tired of their way and open up to the light. As soon as a little openess occurs, they are able to make contact, but not before.  I believe that opening up to love is the same thing as being able to perceive the vibrational rate of a higher level being. I doubt that these light beings extend their entire selves into a lower realm. It isn't a 3D affair. It is more of a matter of their extending a small part of their awareness and energy to where a lower realm, while the rest of their selves remain in a higher realm.

Perhaps spirits that are currently making use of bodies are able to help stuck spirits, because the fact of their being connected to a physical body causes them to have an energetic signature that a stuck spirit can recognize.

This is how it works for me. Spirit energy is run through me throughout the day. This energy is quite noticeable. First a stuck spirit sees my physical energetic signature, and then they see my connection to the light. To be more precise, energy is ran through me in various ways according to what is required. Apparently the spirit helpers I work with need some sort of vehicle that they can run energy through. One of the reasons I'm able to help in such a way is because I have gone through extensive energetic work. Sometimes spirits are run through my energy field so their negative mind patterns can be cleansed so they can move on to a higher level. You'll like this part Don. Some of the spirits that are run through my energetic field are spirits that were attached to people. About three years ago I expressed the willingness to help with spirit detachments in a non-physical way, and my willingness was answered.

Regarding Robert Bruce, he claimed that while he was working on some notes, Sai Baba magically materialized in front of him within white light. At a later time it became known that Sai Baba molested the male children of his followers. At first Robert Bruce denied these allegations. Eventually things got to the point where Robert Bruce could no longer deny these allegations. He defended Sai Baba in various dishonest ways.  One thing he said is that the behavior of Avatars (a direct incarnation of God) is mysterious. He also said that Sai Baba had sex with these boys after they gave their approval. Outside of the fact that it is never okay to have sex with a child, much less the child of a trusting devotee, these boys didn't have time to give permission. They would enter Sai Baba's room, and much to their surprise, Sai Baba would start molesting them. It is hard to figure how a person like Sai Baba could manifest to Robert Bruce in the way he claimed.

Justin, your revised theory does not address my 7 issues any better than your original theory.  Theories derive cogency from what the philosophy of science terms their heuristic value.  In other words, that theory is to be preferred which makes the best sense of ALL the relevant variables and evidence.  One of the factors that trivializes and marginalizes astral research in the eyes of mainstream academia is the retarding influence of the accompanying New Age philosophy:
"Your truth may be idifferent from my truth; so trust your own experience and don't worry about contradictions with different types of contact with astral planes." The distortions of wishful thinking and delusions relegate this attitude to a ghetto mentality and effectively thwart the pursuit of true knowledge.  

True, some trapped souls may be unable or unwilling to perceive their wannabe retrievers, but this claim must not be generalized to explain the complete variety of retrieval options.  Once it is established that spirits from higher planes can easily communicate with spirits on lower planes apart from retrievals, the case for an essential role for incarnate astral explorers is undermined, especially when such explorers are forced to rationalize the poor quality of their limited verifications (i. e. no names, addresses, date of death, etc.).  But I'm totally open to reassessing my position if better methods and research explain these difficulites.  Speculation itself is not helpful.    

I too am troubled by some of Robert Bruce's claims, but not as much as by Robert Monroe's implausible reincarnation memories during his OBEs (e. g. his prior life as a pilot in a flying machine dodging spears hurled by cave men).  Robert Bruce's "Astral Dynamics" is far superior as a analytical work than Monroe's trilogy.  The current state of astral research is so embryonic and flawed that I have to make hard litarary choices.  

Albert, your speculation about the significiance of the light beings hovering over a hell may or may not be correct.  One of the strengths of Ritchie's book is his reluctance to interpret important events that he witnesses.  Now a psychiatric, Ritchie strikes me as the brightest and most objective NDEr.  For that reason, I much prefer his NDE account to those of Dannion Brinkley and Betty Eadie.  

Don

Below are some possible answers to Don's list (within brackets):

Justin,

In my view, at least 7 issues must be satisfactorily addressed before we resort to the desperate expedient of claiming that discarnate guides cannot "lower" their vibration well enough to perform retrievals:

(1) the lucidity of many ADCs and NDEs in which discarnate
    spirits "descend" to interact with the earth plane;

[Such experiences are so varied, it is hard to draw any definite conclusions. When it comes to ADCs, perhaps some spirits extend a part of themselves to people who are open to receiving. If a person is grieving over a loved one, the love connection he or she feels might give he or she a better than usual ability to make a connection.]

(2) the chatty ease with which mediums give and receive detailed
    information from discarnate spirits;

[It isn't a matter of different levels of reality being located in different "physical" locations. It is a matter of different levels of reality existing on different vibrational levels. Genuine mediums probably have their chakras and such developed so they can make contact with spirits. I've seen what can happen when your energetic system changes. For example, my heart chakra is now able to open until it feels as if it is about the size of a beach ball. Certainly this will lead to enhanced receptivity. When my third eye becomes active, my entire forhead will sometimes become active.]

(3) evidence that spirits from higher planes can be present on lower
    planes through remote viewing with visual holograms;

[When I receive information from spirit beings, I often receive symbolic visual imagery. As I suggested on previous posts, my belief is that beings from a higher level extend just a small part of themselves when they get involved with a lower realm. Consider when the spirit of Christ has worked on my energetic system. I don't believe that the entirety of Christ visited me. He extended only as much of himself as he needed to extend.]

(4) the ease with which astral explorers can move through so many
    levels of consciousness unimpeded;

[Many astral explorers have a different state of mind and overall energetic than spirits who get stuck due to various states of confusion. It is significant to acknowledge that a lot of people try to travel astrally and don't suceed.]

(5) the dubious assumption that most discarnate retrievers have great
    difficulty in lowering their "vibration:"   For example, Swedenborg's
    guides have no problem "descending" with him to lower levels.

[Please see my answer to number 3.]

(6) Robert Bruce's reports of deceased loved ones "descending" from
    higher planes to interact with and retrieve loved ones in
    spirit "hospitals" in lower planes;

[Mum on this one.]

(7) the utter lack of expected paranormal retrieval verifications,
    including names of the deceased and their relatives, date and
    address of death, etc.  If retrievals occur at all, then the most
    likely means of retrieval is a well rehearsed process
    learned in some astral training school.

[We've talked about this before. I can't speak for everybody else, but in my case I received confirmational information early on, and later on it became unreasonable for me to continue to ask for information that can be verified.]

Don