This is true, Monroe indeed had experiences of seemingly possessing another individual's body in another dimension.  However, this individual was not having etheric level projections at the time of the "possession", but rather was physically active, and so this example does not really apply.

I Am Dude wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 4:14am:


  Vincent, you seem to have missed my point about comparing physical details and skewing of these, to translating nonphysical concepts into physical concepts, language, etc. in a way that is easy for us to comprehend more accurately.  These are like comparing apples to oranges.  Btw, i agree with you that a body is not left completely unresonated with by a probes consciousness until full physical death.
As i mentioned earlier, i don't believe that any channeled or psychically derived source is completely accurate, 100 percent of the time.
  In Rosiland's case, it may just be an example of skewing, but its also possible that they just over simplified it to get the main point across, that in the etheric state one can be more easily influenced by stuck nonphysicals.  That's the core of what they were saying, but perhaps they presented it in an overly simplified manner.

  I tried to explain it in a more accurate and less simplified way, and i found it very difficult.  At one point i had to dissociate a bit, and just let info flow in order to get the right concepts (in the right language) across and still it lacked.  It is a rather complex and hard to understand topic for the left brain part of us.
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  And i'm not saying that you are necessarily wrong about this particular bit of info in this work being an example of skewing.  However, possession or something like it is a reality, and can be a very difficult situation--hence why cautions from not just Rosilands source, but also Cayce's source. 

Whether or not this was an example of error and skewing, or a more simplified and thus less accurate depiction, i believe the basic, core concept is sound in that when one phases primarily in the etheric state i.e. resonates the physical field to the etheric field primarily, there is an easier opportunity for beings which are stuck in the etheric state to find an "opening" so to speak, to influence the said explorer--they can become too attached and enmeshed within the energy field of that person, which then causes lots of other issues. 

  Also, whatever the real reason behind this part, i do not believe that her guidance was actively trying to instill fear.  Is one fear mongering when a parent tells its child to not to put its hand on the hot stove because it will hurt?   Whether people want to believe it or not, there are difficult consequences both in the material and nonphysical planes.  One of them is possession (i don't like this term, because it implies full bodily control of anothers body, and in my perception that is extremely rare). 

  I have some experience with possession, particularly with my Dad who is alcoholic.  Now i've seen various sources mention that when the average person gets drunk, it leaves them much more open to being influenced by stuck folks.  I know this by experience.  I explained the whys pretty well and logically, just as i explained the whys and hows logically behind the OOB state and potential undue influence of stuck/unhappy beings. 

   Are you saying that you know for sure, a 100 percent that neither takes place, and that Rosilands source was just trying to instill fear in others?    

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  I will put this into a broader perspective.   Cayce gave his readings from the early 1900's to almost mid 1940's.   He was stretching the minds and beliefs of people back then with certain specific concepts and info. 
Rosiland worked with Monroe in the latter 70's and very early 80's (i believe).   Bob's 1st book was published originally before he met Rosiland.   Bob's 1st book is pretty simple and lacking a lot in breadth of info and insight.  Bob and Bob's 1st book when i read it, struck me as pretty clueless in some respects and that was as a 16 year old reading it.
Bob wrote or published his 2nd book in the mid 80's.  He wrote or published his last book in beginning of the 90's.   From one book to another, you see a progression in depth, complexity, and breadth of info.  It becomes more broad, complex and accurate, because Bob was growing spiritually from one book to another. 

  Now, there are various sources which say that as we move closer to the Aquarian Age, and to certain cycles like the Galactic-Winter Solstice Alignment, which we are now in, the collective vibrations of the ELS are being raised more and more.   More and more people can understand, accept, and handle greater depth and detail of info. 

  I have a feeling that if Bob was here today, he would say that even his mind was stretched at times by Rosiland's guidance.  For awhile he looked avidly towards these sessions because of their enlightening nature.  He writes in his 1st biography about this, and that it was very addictive for him and something he always had to consciously pull away from. 
   For even him, and for people then, it was not so simple and easy to grasp.   There are plenty of times when Bob got "aha" info from Rosiland's source.   That's why he called Rosie's main guide, "Ah So".

  You, i, and all of humanity and the Earth herself, have the benefit of living closer to those important cycle markers, and enjoying an overall faster vibrating Earth dimension.   Guidance is now more willing and can now more easily communicate certain concepts that they may not have 30 years ago. 

  Relativity Vince.  Just as Cayce's guidance didn't communicate about a Greater Self existing outside of time, which has within it many innate aspects, which some get turned into free willed personalities which live physical lives.  But, really this is happening from a "no" or rather all time state.   About 40 years later, other sources felt it was time to speak more clearly and accurately about such concepts, as both Monroe and Rosilands info talks about. 

  So what is your point?  No doubt there are sources today which speak with greater complexity than Rosiland's guidance did, but you have to allow for a natural progression here.   There are also, besides the general vibe of the Earth being faster vibrating, more individuals who are living in a much faster vibratory state then there was say 20, 40, or 80 years ago.

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Imo, i believe you are too quick to try to defend the Seth material, and lets not be coy, one of the reasons why you started this thread was in part to defend Seth in a round about way.   

   I also question your discernment and degree of intuition when you express strong interest in sources like the Matrix 5 material, when to more seasoned explorers, these automatically ring the 'rather off bells', even without needing to read a lot of the material itself.   

  I had a similar feeling with Seth, even before i read about the whole Jesus crucifixion issue.  I'm a deeply intuitive person who feels fairly clearly, what outer sources are mostly about or not.   I don't doubt there is truth in Roberts work, just as i don't doubt there is truth in the Matrix 5 material, but neither seems all that helpful to me and funny enough, both degrade the life and example of Yeshua.

  If Roberts work was so helpful to you in faciliating a faster vibratory level, would you have been as interested in buying the Matrix 5 books as you seemed to be?   Can you not just intuitively feel what these or other sources are about?   Seems Roberts work hasn't been as helpful to you as you think, but seems to have kept you more in an intellectual place (btw, the Matrix 5 books likewise has a very intellectual/mental polarization to it).

  I see quite a lot of potential in you, and have said some things about you that i would not say about too many other people in these times.  Yet, you still have some limiting beliefs and sources to let go of, if you want to more fully realize that potential.   You are letting outside sources have too much influence on your beliefs.

   So yes, you can find errors in pretty much any channeled or psychically derived source, heck i strongly disagree with Bruce about his views on vegetarianism, BUT there is relativity here, meaning there are degrees of accuracy and offness.  My guidance leads me to the sources which have the least offness and inaccuracy, and they do a good job of same, because i have spent a long time in this life, and in others lives of learning to listen.

  Comparing Seths possible (to you) skewing about a physical world event, to a possible skewing (to both of us) of Rosilands guidance re: the etheric state and all that jazz is like comparing apples and oranges.   
Not one source that i've come upon, and got a lot of PUL and highly aware/expanded vibes from, ever speaks derogatorily of Yeshua and his life or example (and they all affirm his birth, crucifixion, and resurrection), yet i've found it is common in ignorant or purposely misleading sources.  You know how many Gurus have claimed to be Jesus reincarnated, but that they were beyond Jesus?  Or other Gurus say false things about him and his life?   

   There seems to be both a conscious and unconscious agenda against Yeshua and his example.   

   If true, a good question to ask is why?   Maybe because he represents the most intune and powerful example of true spiritual livingness publicly known about, and some sources dislike or disagree with him based on like attracts like i.e. they are far from being in resonation with such a pure energy OR in some cases there are forces out there that like a stuck humanity?   His example, when put into perspective, is extremely inspiring, and for me personally the most inspiring example that i've yet come across though i rather like and inspired by those like Yeshua's mother, Cayce, Moen, Monroe, Dr. King, Gandhi, my Mom, etc.

Justin

My motive was not to compare the Seth material with Rosalinds work.  Rather, it was to point out a rather obvious flaw in this aspect of the thinking of her guidance, perhaps simply as a reality check that no source is completely accurate, regardless of how love-attuned they are.  I am not saying her guidance was trying to instill fear, but that this may have been the outcome for some readers regardless of the motive, which could have been avoided had Rosalind had more accurate knowledge regarding our consciousness and its relationship to our multidimensional existence.  

By the way, you completely misinterpreted my post in the Matrix 5 thread.  I was not stating my own personal viewpoints on the book, but rather trying to convey the message of the author and what the book was about in general.  I have not read any of this material, nor do I have a real interest in it.  I likewise get a feeling from it that does not resonate with me.  Please do not judge.

BTW again, you are not the only one who has dealt with negative influences.  Everyone has, and does.  The issue here is not about negative influences in our daily lives, but the question of whether or not having OBEs makes one more susceptable to possession.  Being that you have had just one OBE and I have had countless, perhaps I am still the one with more experience on this subject.  Heck, the reason my life became so positive was in part due to my out of body exploration and learning.  But that is not the point.  The point is that Rosalind's guidance clearly states that it is a real possiblility that you may be possessed while out of body, and yet this theory does not add up to reality.  Her guidance states that our bodies are left in isolation, and yet you yourself admit that this is wrong.  

Basically what I am looking for in you is to not make an excuse for this inaccuracy, but to admit that there is a good possibility that she was wrong, and to realize there is little difference between this mistake and the mistakes made by other channels.  You yourself said that one flaw makes an entire body of work questionable.  Yet in this case you seem to overlook this.  

I am not saying this inaccuracy jeperodizes the credibility of her work by any means, but rather it shows that a source of truth and love can still contain flaws, and yet one can still benefit from such a source's guidance without having to judge the entire body of work based on one incongruency. 

I Am Dude wrote on Feb 5^th, 2009 at 5:21am:


  I remember reading that you personally had an interest in reading this material.  Perhaps i read or remembered wrong.

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  So you are completely sure its not a possibility?  Can you speak for everyone else?   Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean jack crap no matter how many times you have gone OOBE in that manner.   
   As far as i know, Rosiland's guidance doesn't say something like, don't ever go out of body via the etheric, you must not.   They mention that there is a possibility for those that do so to experience a possession type experience, and also give a solution by saying that its important to use affirmations and to ask for help from constructive sources.

  You are arguing what they call a straw man argument.   Now, if someone does get possessed to some degree while OOBE, are we always going to know about it when looking at them?   Maybe "possession" tends to be more subtle than what the movies make it out to be? 
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  Yes, i disagree if what they were saying was an absolute statement, and not just an oversimplification for the purpose of not trying to put super complex/nonphysical concepts into physical language.   However, my feeling IS that there is less potential sheilding that happens when one goes OOBE in the classic, etheric sense. 
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  I've already said that i'm not completely sure whether or not it was skewing.  I am open to that possibility, but i do see other potential explanations for it when put into a broader perspective.  You consistently ignore the broader perspectives and relativity around this issue that i have pointed out.
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  No, i never said that.  I said in the case of Roberts, i sensed an offness about her work even just when starting to read her book, and i was not surprised when i found out how she spoke of Yeshua.  For me, it confirmed that earlier feeling of "offness".  There are also other concepts in there not having to do with Yeshua, that both Spooky and Albert have touched on and said were rather off and inaccurate, and i've agreed with them.   I trust the instincts of Spooky and Albert.  They are mature people who have been at this nonphysical exploration stuff for a long time, certainly a lot longer than you have.

  I've said many times that no channeled or psychically derived source is always 100 percent accurate all the time.  I have stated many times that there are occasionally skewing and errors in the Cayce readings which are one of my favs. 

  Yet, i have also stated, its a matter of degree, that there is a relatiity involved in judging whether a source could be considered more helpful to not. 

  I have consistently pointed out that in all the sources that i have mentioned, except Monroes first book, they all speak of the importance of PUL type concept from the very get go, and that Roberts earlier books that i've read didn't seem to have much of any focus on that essential concept.  You yourself said that is true, but said that the latter books do.

  After you told me that the latter books do, i noted an rather obvious observation that this makes it look like it doesn't come from a highly evolved Spirit being, but rather indicates it coming from the unconscious of a human who eventually learned the importance of, and started concentrating on PUL--hence the latter reflection in the latter work.  Not a hard concept to get Vince, and rather plainly indicative of the "level" Roberts or her source was at earlier. 

  I also noted that having heard the voices of channeled material from sources which to me seem much more credible (particularly Cayce and Rosiland), i noted that these were much more flat and monotone in voice, like one would expect from a highly evolved nonphysical being because they do not have the strong emotional system and energies going on that a human and stuck person often has. 

  By comparison, "Seth" is flamboyant and over the top.  Right there is a big clue to it being more Roberts unconscious than anything, or possibly her tuning more into a stuck, etheric-emotional level being, or possibly a combo.  Either way, its not just because what she said about Yeshua is why i advise leaving it alone.   Yet, for me that is a pretty big one unto itself, and Cayces guidance advised people a long time ago that a good yardstick for such channeled, mediumistic, and pyschically derived material was if they recognize and affirm the birth, basic teachings, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ or not.

  His guidance said that those sources which do not, its best to leave them alone.

  This may sound like a fundamentalist teaching, but when one really figures out who and what Christ is and about, and one sees it from a much larger and nonreligious perspective, then one would see that its not a fundamentalist statement but a common sense perspective.

  Is it a coincidence that various sources point to Christ being the Co-Creator of this Universe?   Is it a coincidence that Bruces exploration partner, when they were tapping into the Planning Intelligence, kept getting the Christ association with the Planning Intelligence?
Perhaps if this is true, then sources which speak derogatorily of Christ and his life on Earth in some manner, are either ignorant, or purposely misleading?  Again, keep in mind i'm not religious, nor a fan of religion.  If just ignorant, would one want to take classes from a fellow student whose grades are worse or not much better than ones own?   

  Hi Vince, i'm going to leave Rosiland and her guidance info out of this, because as i've said before, i'm not totally sure 100 percent either way if this was skewing or not.  Why debate something that you are not all that sure to begin with?

   I don't know much at all about possession in our history.  I figure there are many ways and states that one can become or allow themselves to be unduly influenced by lacking in light consciousnesses. 
I mentioned meditation as one because one becomes more receptive in that state.   Ones deeper and unconscious intentions/motivations, beliefs, as well as ones more conscious intentions and beliefs can greatly influence what one experiences along these lines when in a more receptive state such as meditation facilitates.   Also how one lives, and what one thinks, etc. can be a factor in the like attracts and begets like sense.

  Also, because the Earth dimension is one based on and of temporary polarization, at times seeming "opposites" also attracts.   My perception is that some particularly lacking in light consciousnesses are sometimes strongly attracted to some rather filled with light human beings, and these latter type of humans do tend to be more innately energy sensitive than the average to begin with so these lacking in light consciousnesses know that they may be able to influence them on a more conscious level and so tend to try harder with these. 
The severely lacking in light consciousnesses, tend to vehemently dislike the purer light.   We can see this example in the Earth, in Yeshuas life i.e. a great case of Polarization. 

  Being ignorant of historical cases of possession, i will not speak much on them, beyond stating my general impression that there are potentially many different factors that go into such cases and can vary between individual cases. 

  Re: the classic OOB state and the sleep state more specifically, i see some major differences between the two.   In the sleep state, there is a lot more going on energetically, and a probe tends to be more strongly guided by its Greater, Disk self during this state.    The fact that so many levels are involved, often times simultaneously, is one of the reasons why we "click out" for a time when we "fall" asleep.  For a time, we become unconscious to self, or rather more accurately to our physical field and part of this is because of the depth and complexity of the experiences and energies going on.  It is too much for our waking conscious minds to handle.   

  This is ever the reason for "clicking out" or unconsciousness to the waking conscious self.   I feel that in the sleep state, we spend very little "time" in the etheric overall, though it depends on the person of course, but i believe that even less mature people tend to work more on the emotional levels while in sleep state. 

  I feel that when we become a "completed being" or full graduate while in the flesh, like "He/She" of Monroe's 3rd book, we automatically lose the "need" for sleep for various reasons, but one of the main ones is because our physical field/consciousness becomes fully integrated and balanced with the fastest vibrating field, the spiritual, within. 
Or in other words, once you reach those developments you can't and won't "click out" anymore in any sense.   Another way to say this, is that now you live and function in the "physical" so called reality, from within your 7th Center, which is the one that resonates to the God-Head in our system of energies.  There are various esoteric and religious references to the "7th heaven" type experience, wherein one feels and becomes aware of God, or Godly like energies.

  Anyways, what happens in a classic OOB type experience, is that one is resonating the physical field strongly with the etheric field/range of vibrations.   In a sense, it is similar to the general principle behind meditation, in that one becomes more sensitized to nonphysical energies than most are in normal waking state, but also different because one is now in the level that various stuck beings are completely or almost completely focused in.

  There can be various reasons why a person will "explore" via that level of self.  For some who have a lot of doubt about the reality of the nonphysical, it can be one of the most convincing experiences of same because it feels similar in some respects to physical reality, feels more physically "real" in some ways. 

  For those who consistently explore via this route, again there can be various reasons for that, but the mains ones that i'm aware of are as follows:   One just may be overattached to that kind of exploring for whatever reason.  2 one may have beliefs which are limiting the person from exploring in other ways via ones faster vibrating levels in self.  3:  Ones average and consistent vibratory rates within the waking conscious self, may be too slow to vibrate in resonance to the faster vibrating dimensions/fields within self and this ultimately and essentially relates to ones consistent degree of attunement to PUL or lack thereof. 

  It's possible for there to be a mix of some, or all of the above.   In some or many cases, it is indicated that there is some kind of limitation going on.  By its very nature, limitation means or represents "slower vibrations", and because of like attracts and resonates with like law, there is a greater degree of both sensitizing to and resonating with stuck beings in the general etheric realm.   Because of that greater openness and receptivity to those kinds of energies one can potentially become more influenced by same than in various other states. 

  The physical in and of itself is so closed down and narrow in band, that it tends to shut out such nonphysical influences.   Yet, the more material minded and slow vibrating one is in the physical, the more one will be influenced by rather lacking in light/stuck physical beings i.e. fellow humans.   
Such a one, while trying meditation or some other form of opening and sensitizing self, may become very influenced by very lacking in light nonphysical consciousnesses.   I believe this was the case with Hitler. 
Hitler was a bit of sensitive (not just my impression, also in his astro. chart with the planet Uranus very strong).  And, he actually had some good ideals to start of with, but a mix of things happened with him which led to some of the most lacking in light consciousnesses developing within him.  He was sort of a Darth Vader type in that he had a lot of potential for good, but via self choices and being influenced by very negative outer sources, he went far down the lacking in light path.

  This also pertains to some well known Gurus, who some probably started off with some good intentions and some spiritual inclinations, but for a mix of various reasons, including their greater sensitivity, boy did they go far down a very lacking in light path.   Also many of these became to some degree "possessed" by some very stuck consciousnesses.   I read an interesting account of a sensitive woman who was involved for awhile with the Guru named Sri Chimnoy, and she said she at one point perceived various lacking in light beings talking to him on a nonphysical level and him listening more than not to these "voices".  Whether ultimately true or not, it is an instructive theoretical example of what can happen with people.  And Chimnoy wasn't near as abusive to his followers as some other Gurus have been. 
  I think this subject is a very complex and relative subject.  And ultimately, i believe there is a greater potential for being more influenced during the OOB state.   As i've observed before, there are various levels of more resonation with stuck energies of some or many people who consistently go OOB in the classic sense.

  I brought up 3 good examples of people who have experience with both classic OOBE, but also other states.   In one case the person experienced an OOBE during an unusually slow vibrating cycle for him--normally when he explores he explores via faster vibrating bodies (most often the mental).  In another case, the person wanted to do classic OOB for years, tried hard to do same, but with couple exceptions could not and is a person that seems quite filled with Light and PUL.   

  In the 3rd example, we have someone who use to go classic OOB a lot with all the affects of same, but as he grew more and more in love and let go of various limiting beliefs, his classic OOBE's became less and less, yet he was still "exploring' the nonphysical often and consistently.

  I would not be surprised if there were other members on this board who had a likewise similar progression happen with them.   Perhaps Bets?
  It seemed to happen with Bob Monroe as far as i can tell.  In the earlier days, it seems he mostly explored via his etheric state and thus experienced mostly classic OOBE's.  Much later on in life, he talks about "phasing", and while he doesn't outright say it, it would be logical to assume that his classic OOBE's lessened and he started resonating his physical field with his faster vibrating fields.   In the case of his "ultimate journey" it seems he temporarily merged his physical field with the highest, or near highest levels of the spiritual or to put it in another way, he focused primarily in his 7th Center, that one that corresponds, when spiritually/energetically awakened, corresponds to the perception and perceiving of the pure White Light.

  Notice how in this experience he lost so much connection and awareness with his physical body/energies, that his body was starting to shut down from lack of connection.   This is because Bob was not fully balanced between all his various bodies--he really wasn't ready to exist completely in that state--he was still too far material in nature.  All the various bodies must be completely balanced with one another, and then fully resonate with the spiritual for their to be the experience of not separating from the physical as Monroe almost did.

Had he been ready, he would have experienced what some call "Ascension" or realization of the "Light body" within the physical.   Such as we may assume "He/She" of his 3rd book achieved, and from the historical testimony and from the psychic testimony of credible sources that Yeshua likewise achieved.   

  What happens in "ascension" is that their is a process wherein the vibratory energies of the physical body (and all bodies below the spiritual), get in a sense "lifted up" to and resonate so fully with the most expanded spiritual energies within self, that in this resonation the two (and more) merge and the physical is converted into pure Light.

  After this process of alchemical transformation, one is left with the experience of being able to exist in the "physical world" and can interact with other inphysical beings in a physical like way, and yet be totally outside same in every other respect.  There are no human, physical limitations left anymore.   One is also consciously aware of all levels of consciousness, the full 49 focus levels of our system, 49 corresponding to the Galactic Center Consciousness. 

  I got a bit off track, as i'm apt to do at times, but sometimes you need to interweave various concepts and points together to get a more full picture of what's going on with one subject.

Regarding "progressing" beyond the OBE type experience..

What happened to Monroe seems to have happened to me.  My first OBEs produced very heavy energetic sensations, and projections into mostly the Real Time Zone.  However, as I developed spiritually and gained more and more nonphysical experience, the once heavy OBE sensations dimmed to a level where now, I do not feel a thing when projecting.  I simply phase out of my body smoothly, into higher levels than ever before.  

However, the same nonphysical process is occurring... my body is falling asleep, my nonphysical self is expanding into its natural levels, and my consciousness is going along for the ride, so to speak.  Only now I am developed enough to pass right through the intermediary RTZ and lower astral levels and bypass the energetic beginner's "static", projecting directly into higher levels of self.

Of course, this does not mean that I no longer exist in these "lower" levels, but rather that my waking consciousness is at a level which is capable of having meaningful experiences in these higher realms, and so I automatically resonate at these higher levels.  One can only consciously project to the highest level which they consciously resonate with.

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This strikes a chord with my own experiences big time.  During several projections I have come into contact with what at first seems like gigantic starts and planets, but these bodies of consciousness radiate an energy so strong it shatters through my being and causes intense feelings.  I have also seen clusters of stars, probably close to millions, in plain sight, while in higher levels, and my first glance at these "stars" caused a jaw dropping explosion of love coupled with a direct knowledge that these were actually higher self clusters.  

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It is very interesting that you brought this up, because a few months ago I was having a conversation with a friend about our galaxy, and theorized that perhaps its central point was a giant star, just like our solar system.  I was not aware this was a credible theory, I was taking a shot in the dark.

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I agree.  The higher levels are reflections of the higher earth energies, just as the lower levels are reflections of the lower energies.

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Funny you should mention this.  Just last month I made the decision to cut down my meat intake to only fish and chicken, and to eat mostly fruits and vegetables.  My food consumption right now is probably 70% vegetables, 20% fruits and 10% meats.  I made this decision after reading McKnight's guidance on the subject.  It really resonated with me.  The benefits of my new diet were seen immediately.  I am not sure about becoming a full vegetarian, however.  I have heard a full veggie diet lacks in some nutritional aspects.  How is your diet these days?  Perhaps you could give me some more advice so I can fine-tune mine.  

You the man Justin!

  Definitely check out Dr. Paul LaViolette.  He is one of the most interesting and enlightening people that i've so far read.  He strikes me as both a genius, and as one of those that Rosies mentions about some spiritually evolved E.T.'s sending through their energy into human form to help with the changes and with ET to human communications. 

  Anyways, he has many, many interesting theories.  A lot of his work is based around the Galactic Center and cycles related to same, and their influence for the Earth. 

  His info explained in a sound scientific way, the causes behind a vision of mine, of the red skies, and later on a meditation vision of a more super active and reddish tinted Sun. 

  He is sort of like a Bob Monroe, but more in a scientific way and field (he talks talk about non physicality and spiritually too though).