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Jesus (Read 51656 times)
recoverer
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Re: Jesus
Reply #45 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 4:28pm
 
Beau and Aras, nothing wrong with a little passion. If people never had passion, where would the human race be?

How about people who take part in public protest? Should they be thrown in jail for being too fervent?

If anything bugs me, it's when people tell me and other people that we don't have the right to be passionate about something. Should we just stick our heads in the sand?
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Volu
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Re: Jesus
Reply #46 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 4:35pm
 
Justin,
"So Volu, there is something lacking or limiting in the notion of self sacrifice for the greater good of the All? And to return positivity to those who hand you negativity?"

Yes, I think so; turning the other cheek - allowing the abuse to continue. No victim, no victimizer. Clearly a difference of opinion, but there you go. Smiley
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Vegetarian is an old indian word for bad hunter.
 
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hawkeye
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Re: Jesus
Reply #47 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 5:00pm
 
I am a beautiful, vast, and wonderful light being, just like yourself, already. Passports seam to phyical but I know there will be many more things for me to accomplish before I will be winking out. Thank you for your thoughts and your vision of my future.

Your still wrong about the vegetables though. Wink Plants are more than just their phyical bodies. (sound familiar?)Their souls are a developed as your, mine, and the animals. Its been proven that thought effect their growth. Love helps them grow also. Plants showin hate or other lower emotions do not do as well as ones that are showin love. For the animals, sacrifice in an effort to help others is not all that bad. I am sure they make that choice with an open mind. Perhaps their choice of sacrifice may allow them to move further in their progression and towards an opportunity to a live as a higher beings? I don't think we have a right to say if their choice of life existence is right or wrong. I don't begrudge anyone not eating meat. Its a personal choice. I won't be kicked our of any heaven for munching on a burger or eating an order of hot wings. Mind you, I wont be going to any heavens that meat eating, on this plain, is going to be a problem. And hopefully any stays, if I think I need them. in a F25 or 26 heaven/hell will be short lived.
Thanks Albert for making me look within. And you also AKA, for reaffirming where you stand.
Joe  
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recoverer
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Re: Jesus
Reply #48 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 5:07pm
 
Perhaps many souls incarnate into difficult lifetimes in this World both human and non human not because it is desirable to do so, but because this World keeps creating such lifetimes. For example, if an abusive parent decides to change his or her abusive way, a soul won't have to take on the difficulty of being abused.


What does "AKA" stand for?



hawkeye wrote on Jan 29th, 2009 at 5:00pm:
I am a beautiful, vast, and wonderful light being, just like yourself, already. Passports seam to phyical but I know there will be many more things for me to accomplish before I will be winking out. Thank you for your thoughts and your vision of my future.

Your still wrong about the vegetables though. Wink Plants are more than just their phyical bodies. (sound familiar?)Their souls are a developed as your, mine, and the animals. Its been proven that thought effect their growth. Love helps them grow also. Plants showing hate or other lower emotions do not do as well as ones that are showin love. For the animals, sacrifice in an effort to help others is not all that bad. I am sure they make that choice with an open mind. Perhaps their choice of sacrifice may allow them to move further in their progression and towards an opportunity to a live as a higher beings? I don't think we have a right to say if their choice of life existence is right or wrong. I don't begrudge anyone not eating meat. Its a personal choice. I won't be kicked our of any heaven for munching on a burger or eating an order of hot wings. Mind you, I wont be going to any heavens that meat eating, on this plain, is going to be a problem. And hopefully any stays, if I think I need them. in a F25 or 26 heaven/hell will be short lived.
Thanks Albert for making me look within. And you also AKA, for reaffirming where you stand.
Joe  

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Volu
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Re: Jesus
Reply #49 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 5:25pm
 
Recoverer,
"It isn't a matter of what love demands. It is a matter of what a person needs to do in order to experience and live according to love."

Needs to, and live according to, for me signifies demand (control). But I'm aware this is on the brink of heading into the world of hair-splitting. Tongue

"If a person makes rationalizations for self-centered activity, he or she will define his or her self accordingly."

In my experience some folks who say they want greater good, service to others, when explaining what that means to them, they say others are wrong and want to save (control) them.

Random kindess, like helping an old geezer across the street, without a need for an audience to see it, is cool, but I think sometimes an action is made in the hope that somebody will like you better, not because you're love incarnated.

"For example, if for the sake of physical pleasure a man decides to define women as pieces of meat to be used sexually, how will he be able to experience their spirit selves?"

Lust - lacking the spiritual/mental connection. An experience, and yet the greater self is still the greater self, and an exp. females are as likely to have as males. A white t-shirt with puppies and a heart on it doesn't tell the whole story.

"Perhaps there is something to the as you sow so you reap principle. Many people who have found themselves in lower realms after their death, have found this principle to be true."

Well, maybe it's sort of like they made wooden horses that turned out to be quite shite, and that's their responsibility, but they learnt a lot from making the first ones, and can now use that knowledge making other ones.
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Vegetarian is an old indian word for bad hunter.
 
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hawkeye
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Re: Jesus
Reply #50 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 5:43pm
 
aka = Justin aka asltaomr
I tend to get a little lazy when typing. I have also gotten Justin's name wrong a few times and aka has been understood, I believe, as being him.
Joe
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Re: Jesus
Reply #51 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 5:49pm
 
Recoverer wrote: "It isn't a matter of what love demands. It is a matter of what a person needs to do in order to experience and live according to love."

Volu responded: "Needs to, and live according to, for me signifies demand (control). But I'm aware this is on the brink of heading into the world of hair-splitting. Tongue"

Recoverer responds: "I figure a person "NEEDS" to make the right choices if he or she wants to live according to love. Hopefully this won't get into "what's right" because moral relatavism tends to be misguided and not sophisticated as some people seem to believe. Moral relatavism suggests that a person can't listen to his or her conscious, common sense and heart, and see what actually is right. I believe that false channeled sources are greatly responsible for moral relatavism. They get people to believe that just about anything is okay.

Some people want to associate love with freedom. This is okay, but I believe that true freedom goes along with responsible behavior. "
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Re: Jesus
Reply #52 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 5:55pm
 
Okay this isn't on the subject but it kind of is. Is there food one can eat on a low cholesterol diet that still provides the protein without the carbs. I have to lose like 30 more pounds and I have been following low carb rules and losing weight and seeing a drop in cholesterol too, but I can't do it with no meat I don't think, but I'm willing to try after reading albert's post if someone can direct me to a viable source for such a diet. Oh yeah no wheat and no sugar at all.
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All the world's a stage...whose stage?--that is the question!...or is it the answer...Who is on first.
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Re: Jesus
Reply #53 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 6:02pm
 
Beau:

Vegetarian diets have a lot more protein than people tend to believe. In fact, some vegetable sources have more protein than meat on a pound by pound basis, because meat has so much fat. I've found that if you eat healty, and I mean lots of fruits and Vegies with starches to the minimun, you can lose weight without doing something faddish and limiting yourself to small amounts of Food.

In addition to vegies, Legumes (beans and lentils), nuts, tempeh (a soy product that is superior to tofu), and quinoa (a grain) can be good sources of protein.

You might have to take a vitamin B-12 supplement, because vegetarian diets don't provide.

Salads and steamed vegetables are better than fried vegetables. Stay away from creamy dressings.


Beau wrote on Jan 29th, 2009 at 5:55pm:
Okay this isn't on the subject but it kind of is. Is there food one can eat on a low cholesterol diet that still provides the protein without the carbs. I have to lose like 30 more pounds and I have been following low carb rules and losing weight and seeing a drop in cholesterol too, but I can't do it with no meat I don't think, but I'm willing to try after reading albert's post if someone can direct me to a viable source for such a diet. Oh yeah no wheat and no sugar at all.

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Re: Jesus
Reply #54 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 6:19pm
 
Thanks, that sounds doable. Sometimes I just need to see it in writing before I can commit to it. Thanks again for a very enlightening "get off the meat" post.

And I'm all for passion in discussion..but for awhile I really thought we were headed for a train wreck of intentions.
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hawkeye
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Re: Jesus
Reply #55 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 6:20pm
 
Well, I don't think we are made to live lifetimes here because this world keeps creating them, plant, and animal. I believe we make the choice to incarnate or not. To learn from the experience of living a life or not. There are important lessons to learn from being a plant as well as being an animal. And existing as a plant no less important or less fulfilling and meaningful than as a human. There is no being forcing us to live these lifetimes. No one but ourselves judging how we have lived once we die. But those are only my beliefs and everyone has the right to have their own. Well except those who believe that some one or something else will be making that choice for them. This is where I have some problem with many organised religions. The need to control the actions and thoughts of others. That only their way of believing is correct. Only their God is the true God. That their way of showing faith is the right way. That's not saying that organised religions are bad. They are not. Its those who attempt to control the thoughts and beliefs of the one who choose to worship. Give me a church of Faith and Love of God. That will be a church that I could worship at. Worship my God that is. Not some fixed idea of what God is. Because my idea of God and your idea of God might be two differant thing. Both correct. To say that your beliefs are truer to God than mine just doesn't jive with reality of the God Essence. Arguments about good and evil have crossed these pages a number of time. Many here believe for instance that Hitler is existing is some sort of purgatory because of the Holocaust. Yet the same people extend love the GW Bush and ignore his atrocities and ethnic cleansing. Its funny how beliefs get in the way of truth and of God. Especially those ones done in the name of God. The differances for someone like me is that I send out healing love to Hitlers energy as well as to Bush's. Not hate and anger. I want Hitler to be in a heaven for healing, if that's what is required. Not rotting in some hell. Just like how Bush will most likly need to spend a little time. It could be a crowed place filled with a few religious leaders as well. That's if Hitler, and a number of others with the same sort of records, haven't already moved on to heaven or ever further. That's not even mentioning what is going on in Gaza. Whats with the Jews killing all those civilians and then its off to pray. Makes me shake my head in confusion and reaffirms my  personal beliefs in organised religions in the name of specific Gods. Well, as you can see I have a long way to go before I am ready for the aperture. Just one more thing..I love and forgive all of them, as I know my God does also.
Joe
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Re: Jesus
Reply #56 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 7:41pm
 
I can't say absolutely for certain what's right when it comes to eating animals. In the end I do what feels right. I've been doing so for over 20 years. I wonder if souls that get involved with animal incarnations are developed enough to make a choice. Would a developed soul choose to incarnate as an animal?

Do you remember Robert Monroe's story about BB? He wanted to take on a human incarnation. Spirits tried to talk him (him?) out of it because incarnating as a human can be really tough. BB ended up taking on an incarnation where he was a woman who had a miserable life and was a servant to an unloving husband. BB really regretted taking on the incarnation. Perhaps the human race shouldn't provide so many bad choices.

I suppose something could be done to cause unpreferable pregnancies to not work, but that would be a drastic choice. Perhaps it would be better to improve the status quo.
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Re: Jesus
Reply #57 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 7:59pm
 
  Joe, you wrote the below re: Recoverer

hawkeye wrote on Jan 29th, 2009 at 1:31pm:
Your statement to me show hate...      


  This is primarily what i was responding to, because to me it is very extreme, and a major mischaracterization.  "Hate" is a very strong word, and one which I haven't ever sensed in relation to Albert/Recoverer.  Stubborn tendencies, opinionated, occasionally too persistent with certain expressions, etc. yes, but not anything even close to hate. 

  You also mischaracterized him and his beliefs in other ways. 

  Re: the animal issue, i was trying to make a deeper point.  Like Albert said, and i agree with, the reason its important to not contribute to the torture and killing of animals, is because LIKE HUMANS they have both a developed nervous system AND a developed emotional system, i.e. they feel fear in a way similar to us. 

  Plants react to harm in a way, but they do not have a developed nervous system wherein they feel physcial pain like us and they do not have a developed emotional system like us wherein they feel acute emotional fear similar to humans. 

  These are big differences between animals/humans, and plants though All is One, and One is All.  Why you persist in this arguement i do not fully understand. 

   Maybe at some point in the farther future, humans will become so evolved as to not have to use or harm any life at all in order to stay in-physical, but for most that day is far off.
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hawkeye
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Re: Jesus
Reply #58 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 8:31pm
 
I strongly believe that if that is the case, then you are doing the right thing. You know whats right for you.
I wonder what BB's final lesson from living an earthly human existence ended up being or if it has been assimilated by him yet? Our opportunities are vast as far as learning experiences go. The choices we make can be all the difference.
When I wrote about living lives as plants or animals, I phased. I remembered living as a blade of grass. Tall and blowing in the wind along side of tens of thousands of other blades of grass. We were a collective consciousness. It felt good. I would live again as that blade of grass or as an animal if there was a lession needed by me to learn through living that experience.
I hate the way animals are raised for food. It truly is a horrible existence as far as my understanding would be. I was raised on the farm and have killed both animals for food and for what I though at the time was pleasure. I cut down crops for food also. Its a good thing that only potatoes have eyes because if all the plants had the ability to express fear and pain like the animals do, we all would have starved by now. We really are not such a loving species. Small farms always did a better job at being humane. Aka conversed with me at one time about how pigs feel fear when they are brought to slaughter. They know they are going to die. I don't doubt him. I think most animals raised the way they are, now feel the same fear.
Now abortion is such a personal matter. I don't agree that it should be use as a method of birth control but in the same breath I believe it is about choice. If a woman is raped and gets pregnant, should she be forced to have that child? Does the being make the decision to exist in fetus form only, just be be killed during an abortion? Are there lession both given and received from such things?  Do we develop brain stem cells by creating life, only to terminate the life to extract them? Then use the cells to save a life. Then there are those who would never bring their child to a doctors. Prayer will fix it all and there is no need for Drs., God will decide the fate of the child. Just pray, that will work good enough. Are they right or wrong? When the child dies was its Gods choice or will, or the parents? Are any of those sort of decisions right or wrong? Its choices. What I believe to be right is not so with others. For some, that eating of a burger is no better than aborting that fetus. I believe that its these choices allow us the opportunity to grow and learn. To become closer to our God, no matter how God is represented. But without these opportunities of choice, would the human experience offer us any means of getting back to source?
Joe 
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Re: Jesus
Reply #59 - Jan 29th, 2009 at 8:49pm
 
AKA, perhaps you should look farther than just the body. I know you understand that there is more than the phyical. Why you must close your mind to the obvious I will never understand. Think OOB. What is your nervous system like when you are OOB or dead. You don't have one. This is the point that vegetarians just don't get. They are killing plants. They are no better than a person that kills an animal for food. Just differant. You, just like I, feel no need to apologise for taking the food. When you kill that plant, do you feel obligated to give thanks for it? I believe we should all be thankful for the sacrifice of life that all animals and all plants give for our existence. We are no better or farther progressed than they. Perhaps they are really far ahead of us as far as progression goes. They have been around a lot longer in the phyical.

(If I offended you Albert by saying that your statement showed hate, I apologise. I know you are a loving soul.)
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