Wow, thank you for sharing that article, Dude. There was certainly some great stuff in there. I feel like something is coming and I don't know exactly when but I buy the precession of the earth's axis argument and the 26000 year cycle. But sometimes I feel kind of foolish about it too. It seems there was always a group of people believing that a massive change was on the way...but then when I think about it those massive changes have occurred lots of times. Perhaps the change will be a new way of thinking about peace and harmony here and a better understanding of healing energies and just energy in general. How can I get those newsletters? I'm not sure about every word but much of it was refreshing to me. Thanks again.

Yours,
Beau

Interesting how so much of the channeled material wants to discredit the Biblical account of Jesus' birth and death.......

As I recall Seth also claimed Jesus was never crucified.

I would only ask that those who readily accept this material consider what possible agenda(s) are behind it.

And as always, the bottom line question should be how does any of it affect how we live our day to day lives?

R

I Am Dude wrote on Jan 4^th, 2009 at 3:40pm:


  Hi Dude,

  I have studied the various scientific research on the Shroud of Turin deeply and from various angles.  All evidence taken as a whole points to it being the burial cloth of Yeshua. 

  If true, like I have every reason to believe it is, then who is doling out false biblical information, you and Seth, or the Bible account?   The Shroud image shows a CRUCIFIED man, all anatomically correct and all aligned with the synthesized gospel story of his death by crucifixion.  One of the only ancient, full bodied depictions of Christ which show him crucified through the wrists and not the hands, btw as it must have actually been.

  Furthermore, two psychic, channeled sources which are a lot more INDEPENDENTLY verified in various ways and readily checkable in a factual sense, both claim that Yeshua was crucified and then resurrected.   One is Rosiland McKnight's guidance and her extensive (free and non fame seeking) work with Robert Monroe, and the other Edgar Cayce and his simply huge and profound work. 

    Will you continue to promote false biblical info even though the truth is readily available?   Again, we have 4 main sources which corroborate.   Historical documents written by people who knew Yeshua and saw his life with those who knew the former people, two much more credible psychic sources, and the Shroud of Turin--the ONLY artifact of its like ever found and oh yeah, just so happens to point to being the Shroud of Jesus. 

  You pride yourself on being logical, objective, reasoning things out for yourself,, and having an open mind?  The proof is in the pudding, instead you consistently defend a source in which you can't specifically back up any verifications yourself, other to say that another person claims they were clairvoyantly tested and found to have verifications. 

  Perhaps you have no respect for Edgar Cayce's work, perhaps you have no respect for the detailed, holistic scientific research done on the Turin Shroud, perhaps you have no respect for multiple historical accounts, but I would at least think you have respect for a source that shaped The Monroe Institute and the Gateway Voyage program itself, a source that Robert Monroe constantly and eagerly looked forward to every week listening too...

  So much for "openmindedness" eh...

 Alright Dude, I guess i now see better where you are coming from.  I'm not so sure that so much of the nativity story is so false.  I'm not a bible literalist by any means, and realize that its been both purposely edited for manipulative, control reasons, and also just errors due to re translations and multiple copying.  
  However, like Albert, i've gotten both inner guidance, and have come upon good outer sources which seem to affirm that the N.T. is largely correct in its basic story format, including much of the birth, teaching, death, and resurrection parts.  

 I'm a bit surprised by some of what you said in the above, especially about you resonating more with the biblical death version than Seth's stuff.   I remember it wasn't all that long ago when you were strongly arguing that Jesus probably didn't even ever exist as a physical person, and that peoples nonphysical experiences only occurred because Christianity has become a powerful thoughtform.    I remember things like that.   When it comes to the subject of Yeshua and his life, you seem to have been very extreme.

  It seems like you have quite changed your mind since these times.

 Me personally, i don't think Seth's version of Christ's life towards the end, is such a little deal and i don't so casually gloss it over.  He states that Jesus and/or his disciples had another would be Messiah drugged to take his place to be crucified and that this did happen.  

 This makes Yeshua seem rather umm unethical to say the least.  Also, with no crucifixion, there is no Resurrection, and i happen to believe that was the main point of Yeshua's whole life and message beyond the general PUL aspect.  In any case, the Resurrection grew out of PUL, PUL is life, God is love, God is life, love and life energy are also synonymous, all this in all dimensions.  Live that which is truly life, love, and Godly enough and the body physical even stays revivified.  

 Even if that is the only thing that Seth possibly states in error, well to me is it a big enough one to question the entire thing, because again I don't have any way to verify independently that Seth has material world verifications in connection with same.   I'm not just willing to take Robert Butts word for it.  Most of what i have read of Seth, is very general and philosophical in nature.   And actually, much of that general info i more or less agree with.   When i was reading it, most of it wasn't anything really "new" or revelatory to me, much of the stuff i had either read in other places, or had already had intuitions about.  

 If Seth is truly a nonphysical and spiritually mature consciousness, and Jane Roberts hooked up to him in a clearer way, then why would Seth via Roberts make such a erroneous and clearly diminishing statement about one of the most important aspects of Yeshua's life and example?  
His whole life was about PUL, and the highest kind of PUL oft requires self sacrifice from the little self for the greater good of the Whole.   Do you think it was easy, even for him, to go to his torture and death for a humanity who little appreciated him then, and still really doesn't even today?  Most people hated and despised him then, and many still do.

  Don't you think, as a man, as someone with still some human remnants in him, that there was some challenge in all this?   In the transcending of his last self attachments, and saying YES in the garden, i will do it, for it is the will of the Creative Forces because it is for the highest good for all, in that came the Resurrection experience and Consciousness.  
When the bible says, "he died for our sins", it doesn't mean literally, but symbolically.   He came to rectify certain false beliefs about humanity and the whole process we go through, and to do that, there was self sacrifice involved otherwise in the garden he would not have asked that there might possibly be some other way.  

 From evidence on the Shroud, we can tell that the man did experience pain and physical weakness, for there are indications that at some point his knee buckled and got banged up in that.   It was no walk in the park, and yet once he made his decision in the garden, he went to this fate joyously because he knew that it would help humanity.   Cayce said he even joked on the way to Calvary, and that is what most infuriated the authorities then.  

 As much as i dislike orthodox Christianity, and the whole religious thing, in the past i've asked guidance and have wondered what would have happened if none of it ever happened.  I got the impression that we would have experienced even much darker times than we did with the Church.   The Church and its influence, though corrupt and self serving in many ways, came on the heels of the likes of Vikings and such groups, who had NO morality whatsoever.  

It's quite likely that if Christianity didn't arise, even in its skewed form as it did, that such barbaric peoples would have overrun the world and it would be a very different place than it is.    Personally i wish that Christianity had survived in its pure form, as Yeshua had taught it, but i've been told that it just wasn't possible for the times and current developement of humanity as a whole..

  And why couldn't have Yeshua been "virgin born"?

identcat wrote on Jan 4^th, 2009 at 11:56am:



  Hi Cat,

  I don't remember Cayce ever saying that specifically, though there does seem to be a link between E.T.'s and some unusual human births in this source.   But it was approached very generally. 

   Also, if you read some of my earlier posts on this thread, you will see that i point out that Cayce's source seems to infer that there are actually two kinds of "immaculate conception."

  One is wholly a spiritual, Spirit pushing itself into matter, activity, and the other is E.T. caused.   

   Cayce's source seems to say that the former is what happened with Yeshua and his birth, and seems to say that the latter is what happened with a "past life" of his whose name was Ra Tah.   

   I believe that E.T.'s sometimes influence some human births, not because of what i've read in this or that book, but because of some experiences relating to me. 

  My Mom had childhood illnesses, and various doctors told her that she would never be able to have children.  She very much longed for a son, and kept trying even though she had miscarriage after miscarriage.   

    One night she had a very vivid dream about being on a spaceship with some very familiar and loving non human Beings.  They told her everything was going to be alright.  It wasn't that long after this dream that she successfully had me.    I have a hard time believing that it was just a coincidence, and i believe the E.T.'s must have helped out in the process.   

  Btw, i'm not saying that i'm "immaculately conceived" in any sense of the word.  I have no idea about that part. My Mom was definitely not a virgin.   But because of this info, along with my own intuition, stuff in the Cayce readings, in McKnight's work, i do very much believe that E.T.'s influence both births and genetics of some human beings here and there (they seem to be doing it more lately).  With folks that are meant to act as forerunners of new consciousness developments in the Earth, such as with Ra Tah way back when.

Justin--- I do think that your mom was blessed! To have a higher technology step in and help her with her quest-- what a privlege. Strieber describes how the procedure is undertaken. He thought that he was going crazy, (in "Transformations") and contacted Bob Monroe. They both lived in NY state at the time. Monroe assured him that he wasn't going crazy. By reading his book, I found my way to the Monroe Institue web page.

I've read both of Rossaling McKnight's books "Cosmic Journey" and "Soul Journey" and I met her at the Monroe Institute during my Guidelines week. She is very down to earth and glows like and angel. I would have to reread her books to remember all that was in them. But, she had no quams about Et's and their purpose of doing good for earthlings. I think that it was Rosie who stated that a space ship landed on the Monroe property in Virginia and one of the participants went out to greet them.  My closest contact to ET's are the orbs.  I can't say that I physicall see them--- only through photo's taken.

Yes, I truely think that a higher life form has a definate influence on human beings--- all throughout our history. --cat

 Thanks Cat.  My Mom was a very loving, spiritually oriented, and aware person, and i will feel eternally grateful that she was my first teacher in this physical life.  

 Interesting about the Strieber Monroe connections and all that.

 I've had quite a few, different kind of ET contacts, everything from dreams, to seeing UFO's (and orbs), to one bizarre and very real seeming OBE encounter, and having strong intuitions about them.  

 I think they are big part of the whole "2nd Coming" and spiritual transformation thing.   Some of these groups "work" for Christ, one could say.   This is to be a mult-layered and spread out developement, though it does actually involve Christ himself showing up publicly in physical form again.  

 And yes, Rosie rocks.  She is one of my "role models".  

I have to throw my ball in Justin's court here.  Initially, when I read Seth Speaks, it was an amazing experience.  For those trying to understand how thought creates reality Roberts/Seth came up with a very cogent system - one that does expand your awareness, if you never thought about this before.  I couldn't get enough of the Seth material and read through everything.  But it was more an intellectual exercise than a spiritual journey.  I felt no love or PUL associated with it.  Somewhere along the line, I realized that JR/Seth was just that - a cogent system of metaphysics and philosophy, but there was no tie in with PUL and the super-reality of what I consider to be a union with God and the universe. 

Don posted some interesting information about JR and Seth at one time.  That she worked with a priest I believe who noted that she became angry, erratic and her health deteriorated toward the end of her life (which was cut short at age 55.  Furthermore, a note of extreme caution is that communications with "Seth" began as ouija board contacts.  For anyone famliar with after death communications, the ouija board has been associated by many sources as being frought with interactions with lower level entities and mischief.  As described:      

"In late 1963, Jane Roberts and her husband, Robert Butts, experimented with a Ouijaboard as part of Roberts' research for a book on extra-sensory perception. According to Roberts and Butts, on December 2, 1963 they began to receive coherent messages from a male personality who eventually identified himself as Seth. Soon after, Roberts reported that she was hearing the messages in her head. She began to dictate the messages instead of using the Ouija board, and the board was eventually abandoned. For 21 years until Roberts' death in 1984 (with a one-year hiatus due to her final illness), Roberts held regular sessions in which she went into a trance and purportedly spoke on behalf of Seth. Butts served as stenographer, taking the messages down in home-made shorthand, although some sessions were recorded. These messages, channeled from Seth through Roberts, consisting mostly of monologues on a wide variety of topics, are collectively known as the "Seth Material".

  It didn't sound pretty, and certainly seemed like an ending of life devoid of PUL and spirituality.  We are all prone to human frailties, but when all put together, the ouija board contact, the deterioration of her health and sanity toward the end, it sounds like misdirection to me.

The problem I have with Seth material is that it is such a cogent system of thought put down on paper that its followers refer to this or that passage from Seth, to support their feelings about something or other in the physical/spiritual world.   As if this, non-human alien being "channeled" through JR is the last word for us about the spiritual and physical planes.  Pullleeazzee. 

Insight must be guided by love and personal exploration.  But Seth material is channeled, and readers take it to literally as "the gospel" of how reality is set up. 

Just my two cents of course.  I'm a fan of Seth's main premise that thought creates reality.  But my own instincts and guidance has informed me that there is not much PUL to be found in the material, and to stay away from it, now that I've moved on in other ways.

Matthew