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Scepticism,afterlife,fear,and hello everyone :) (Read 2150 times)
ChaosSpirit
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Scepticism,afterlife,fear,and hello everyone :)
Nov 11th, 2008 at 5:19pm
 
Hello,

I am new to the forums,but I've known this site and Bruce Moen's work since 2001.It was then that a horror for death started overcoming me(the idea that we are all going to vanish into nothingness inevitably) and I found this site and this view of the afterlife the one that suits me most,given that I'm a huge sceptic,and have a passion for fully understanding everything and getting proof.

I'm a 19 year old student of the Science of Materials,finding herself,again,with that idea and fear of death stuck in my head:(.

I'm considering getting Bruce's latest book and CDs...

Some questions to all:

What were you own personal experiences with overcoming doubt?

Do you think that Curiosity is a manifestation of fear?

What do you think about the theory of evolution?

Thanks a lot for taking the time.Those questions aside,some comments would be great  Smiley
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recoverer
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Re: Scepticism,afterlife,fear,and hello everyone :)
Reply #1 - Nov 11th, 2008 at 7:25pm
 
Hello:

Regarding the theory of evolution, I believe there is more to it than Charles Darwin's theory. I figure life in this World isn't a mistake. It is a part of a divine plan.

I don't believe curiosity is the result of fear. It is a quality that gets us to check things out so we can find out what's possible. Otherwise we would be lethargic beings that have the ability to create and learn but never make use of this ability. I figure if we're going to exist for all of eternity, we need to make use of what we have access to in the most loving and wise way possible.  Some growing pains are experienced as we do so.

I've had a lot of experiences that convinced me about the afterlife, here are a few in shortened form:

1. I had what I refer to as my night in heaven experience. At the time I was a mixture of an atheist and agnostic, if such a thing is possible. I figured science had all of the answers.  During this experience I was absolutely certain that the afterlife existed. I very clearly understood how it was possible for it to exist without having to think about it. It was like, "Oh yeah."  The happiness level was wonderful. I understood that everything works out wonderfully in the end. I understood that this is what our existence is really about. I also understood that Jesus Christ was a divine messanger, but not in the fundamentalist way some people attribute to him.

2. One night I understood in a very clear way that this World isn't what I believed it to be, understood that I'm a spirit being, not a body based person, and that there is no such thing as a particular moment of time or space.

3. Experiences of divine love that couldn't be the result of my body based existence.

4. Out of body experiences.

5. Numerous communications with my spirit guidance in a way for which it is certain that my imagination wasn't responsible.

6. Through spiritual means I've become aware of things I didn't know about through physical means.

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ChaosSpirit
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Re: Scepticism,afterlife,fear,and hello everyone :)
Reply #2 - Nov 11th, 2008 at 7:47pm
 
Thanks a million for the feedback,revoverer.I'm very sceptical about whether there is a meaning to life(I also am,if you have to put a label to it ,an atheist/agnostic...I think it's a bit of an official term actually)..and evolution to me makes a lot more sense than any version of creationism...:/...

I see Jesus Christ as a philosopher and a revolutionary of the times,but that's it,really(to me,always)...Science can 'explain away' OBEs,but let's say that I still hope there's more to it than us being animals with our conscience of death a matter of biological coincidence.

Again,thank you very much.
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Re: Scepticism,afterlife,fear,and hello everyone :)
Reply #3 - Nov 11th, 2008 at 8:04pm
 
You're welcome.

I've found that science can't explain everything away. It is possible to have spiritual experiences in a manner where one is certain about what one is understanding.  One has an automatic knowing. One can't duplicate such a way of understanding by using one's intellect and World based memories.

My first out of body experience occurred when I had never heard of such a thing. I saw a spirit being during this experience, but didn't communicate with this being. The next day I went to the library and for some reason randomly pulled a book off of a shelf, and it ended up being about astral projection (out of body experiences).  The book described the paralysis and vibrational state I experienced during my out of body experience. It is hard to imagine that after years of never hearing about astral projection, the very next day after having such an experience, I grabbed a book about astral off of a book shelf, just by coincidence.


ChaosSpirit wrote on Nov 11th, 2008 at 7:47pm:
Thanks a million for the feedback,revoverer.I'm very sceptical about whether there is a meaning to life(I also am,if you have to put a label to it ,an atheist/agnostic...I think it's a bit of an official term actually)..and evolution to me makes a lot more sense than any version of creationism...:/...

I see Jesus Christ as a philosopher and a revolutionary of the times,but that's it,really(to me,always)...Science can 'explain away' OBEs,but let's say that I still hope there's more to it than us being animals with our conscience of death a matter of biological coincidence.

Again,thank you very much.

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Lights of Love
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Re: Scepticism,afterlife,fear,and hello everyone :)
Reply #4 - Nov 11th, 2008 at 8:48pm
 
Hi CS and welcome!

Probably my most dramatic experiences have been two NDE’s, plus a host of other experiences that leaves absolutely no doubt. Too numerous to mention right now, but I have posted on this board several during the past few years.

No I don’t think curiosity is a manifestation of fear, I think it is a product of evolution. In fact in my opinion everything is in a constant and continual state of evolution.

I highly recommend Bruce’s books and you may also be interested in this: http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1210038473

Glad you have joined us.

Kathy
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Tread softly through life with a tender heart and a gentle, understanding spirit.
 
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spooky2
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Re: Scepticism,afterlife,fear,and hello everyone :)
Reply #5 - Nov 11th, 2008 at 9:17pm
 
Hello ChaosSpirit,

I believe in the theory of Evolution, and I believe in the afterlife.

The sad thing is that there is a pattern of thinking, repeated and fed by the media,which is either you believe in science, or you believe in an afterlife. This is nonsense. The topic of natural science is objective data. Data which can't be reproduced or quantified in an objective, reliable way are not an object of natural science. This is ok, but to confuse it with "reality" is neither ok nor scientific. Our reality can't be described in a natural science manner, it's only a small filter-frame of what we experience. We can attempt to describe what is physiologically happening in our brain while having a particular experience, but this is not the experience in itself. Science is one thing we developed with our minds. Everything is in our mind. That doesn't make science less true, if we only remember it's limited field. Natural science is not philosophy.

I've had some explorations with TMI's and Bruces methods, which made me become much more knowing, responsible, and maybe even loving. And I've had OBEs which were just as real as physical reality. No one can tell me they were illusions, as they first had to prove to me that the "physical real world" is no illusion. That would be a hard job to prove this.

Spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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ChaosSpirit
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Re: Scepticism,afterlife,fear,and hello everyone :)
Reply #6 - Nov 11th, 2008 at 10:15pm
 
Thank you all.Lights of Love,thank you for the link,that Tom Campbell  interview was quite interesting.I'm not sure about his claim that information is non-physical because you cannot put in a bottle(a neuroscientist would say that it may be a problem of language...and that information is a word we use to explain phenomena in the brain..strengthening of the synapses,altering of genes,etc).

I took a class on neurophysiology last year,and scientists in that field generally want to move towards proving the biological basis of every mental process...Some of them are saying that what we call 'consciousness' is what originates from the collective activity of our brain.

The only way I can get it through my head if I want to incorporate the non physical is if I think that,what happens in our phycisal bodies is a sort of a 'translation',a manifestation on what happens in our non physical aspects ,if this makes any sense.

Spooky..I understand what you are saying...And I also have to admit that I am quite scared to leave the world of skepticim,scientific thought and 'intellectualism' I think I belong to,still thinking that belief in the non physical is merely a hope in the face of the fear of death.

That said,I am in no place to doubt people's experience with arrogance...I guess that I could try Bruce's methods.

Existential fear and anxiety is probably the most painful emotion I have ever experienced.
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george stone
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Re: Scepticism,afterlife,fear,and hello everyone :)
Reply #7 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 12:49am
 
Choasspirit.How would you explane this.I had a dream that my mother was dieing 2000 miles away,and I was there.I saw she was dead.and when I awakened in the morning,I told my wife that her mother was dead.she told me know she is not because I was talking to her testerday and she was fine.I said you will get a phone call this morning.A few hours later the phone rang telling her that her mother was dead,she died that morning.George
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blink
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Re: Scepticism,afterlife,fear,and hello everyone :)
Reply #8 - Nov 12th, 2008 at 9:31am
 
Hi ChaosSpirit.

What were you own personal experiences with overcoming doubt?

I am replacing the word doubt with anticipation, excitement, positive expectation, surrender, etc.

It is best not to entertain thoughts of doubt.
------------------
Do you think that Curiosity is a manifestation of fear?

No. Curiosity is the management of fear.
------------------

What do you think about the theory of evolution?

All of life evolves from moment to moment. We are in a constant creative process, which is not confined to conventional notions of time and space. Anything is possible.


love, blink
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