good point, Hawk....

but is anyone 'just' a man?

'just' a woman?

we are all ordinary until we do something extraordinary

like becoming human.

it is the sort of question that makes me wonder, what does it mean to be human?

is there such a thing as being 'just' alive? maybe.

but maybe being human is something else.

is it conceit which makes this distinction?

or something else? now you have made me question my entire existence.

uhmmm, thanks for that.....someone had to do it.

Hawkeye:

Just because you don't like one extreme this doesn't mean you need to select another extreme. Both extremes don't understand who Jesus is. Associating Jesus with Jim Jones is a bit much.

Try to say hello to Jesus, and see what you find out.

Hawkeye:

It is quite clear that Jim Jones was a cult leader who in the end had a bunch of people commit suicide.

Regarding Jesus, as I've stated in the past, I've had experiences which showed that he is a being who plays a key role in divine afairs, and he wasn't just another cult leader pretending to be something he wasn't. Perhaps you should find this out for yourself in a manner that goes beyond your intellect and its biased limitations, before you make such bold and unknowing statements about Jesus. It's one thing to have an opinion, and quite another thing to have spiritual experiences with the spirit of Christ.

It's a fact of life that many cult leaders have and continue to exist. To not acknowledge this is to stick one's head in the sand with the thought that one is being more tolerant than usual.  Being loving doesn't mean that you can't allow yourself to see when somebody is doing something negative. If you don't allow yourself to see that they are doing so, how can you get to the point where you try to help them? What if such a person asks you some day why you didn't try to help he or she when he or she got lost for a while. Would you tell this person that you didn't want to be judgmental?

I don't believe in the you better believe or else approach, but a day will come for each of us where we will realize that Jesus was a special man and is a wonderful light being today. It is one thing to claim that one has reached a certain level of development, and quite another thing to do so. Many have done the former, few have done the later.

If one reaches the state Jesus reached, one doesn't do so simply for one's self. One does so because one loves this World and the light so much, one lets go self serving entanglements that people don't tend to let go of while in this World.  

The more I've opened up to that which is divine, the more I've wanted to become a part of what Jesus is about, rather than find a way to dissociate myself from him.

Alan, why the urgency? Each of us has all the time in the world, why worry?

It's funny, but if I was 'out' there in the 'astral' (I don't know these terms), and if I was wondering where to find the one who was known as Jesus here on earth, I think I'd hear your shout all the way to the next universe.

Love on 'ya.      blink

devayan wrote on Nov 7^th, 2008 at 8:38pm:



  Hi Devayan,

  I'm a bit confused after reading your post, as to why you quoted mine?   

  Either way, i would like to speak to some things you said.  I grew up being very interested in Eastern beliefs, and later on also in the general "New Age" hodge podge of beliefs. 

   Many sources within both believe and claim that Yeshua was just another Master and that there are and have been many of them.  I believed that Buddha was completely enlightened, etc. etc.  I believed all this for many years myself, and to some extent it is true, but for myself, I have discovered that the "truth" encompasses more than just that.   

  I started studying a very interesting, rather universal (especially for its times) and very deep source of info, and it gave a very rich and multi-dimensional view of this character Yeshua.   It seemed to place him in a somewhat unique role, as compared to the many teachers who have come here to try to help humanity. 

   I started to drop more and more outer belief systems, and started to go within more and more, and the more I did that, the more I realized that this particular source rang of truth and accuracy in this respect.  And there is other outside stuff independent of it, to back it up, like the Shroud of Turin for example.   There haven't been any other like it found.  It is in my belief a snap shot in space time of the full conversion of the body physical matter back into pure Light state. 

  The more intune i got, and the more within i went, the more I realized exactly who and what this person was all about.   Also at the same time, my intuition and discrimination started to become more acute, and I realized that many teachers out there, who others labeled as completely enlightened, weren't actually.   Some were darn close, and others not so, and quite a few modern ones were downright quite far from same. 

  Out of all the public and generally known teachers out there that I've tuned into, there is only one so far born of a woman, that I would say was completely and fully enlightened.

   That doesn't mean that other beliefs, teachings, and teachers don't have merit, or things of worth to offer.  Course they do, and any that both preach and practice love and Oneness in action are helpful.  What is the best belief system?  The one that helps you get closest to Source and living in a loving and Sourcelike way.

  Also, I believe the potential of complete/full enlightenment is there for any and everyone, and notice I italicized "public".  My sense is that there are and have been others out there since Yeshua who have achieved the same, but they are much less known to the world and for whatever reason they keep on the down low, performing their good works as what some might call "immortals".  They do not age or die, because they have transcended the illusion of physicality. 

  I also believe there are whole "races" of certain E.T. groups who operate within that same degree of development. 

  These all are the full, and fully conscious, Co-Creators with Source.  We too will get there.   

  But I guess my point is that, just because many people say that this or that teacher was fully enlightened, doesn't make it true.  There are degrees of awareness, and especially livingness of Sourceness, and there is also the Zenith within same.   Many public teachers talk a good talk, and are perceptive about various things, but did or do they put into practice the degree that Yeshua did and does? 

  Isn't it alright if my answer/opinion is different than yours? 

  Btw, I'm speaking materially and of teachers who have incarnated in the physical world. 

  Outside of the physical, i believe and sense there are many, many, many "Masters".    

  But it seems to be rather difficult to fully realize while still actually in the physical world, and a rare person indeed who has done this to date. 



  Yet to contradict myself a bit, i believe that have been periods in the long history of humanity, wherein MANY people at the same time were at that state.   But these periods have been rare in the grand scheme of things as well.