Hi Sonia. Thats a very big question in a few words I think. As ever how you see this depends on view. Here's one:

This world is inherently a dog eat dog and impermanent environment, and in that situation there's inherently suffering involved in life/survival. (if nothing else there's aging, illness, climate, natural threats, the need to eat other living things  and so on)

That said selfish and egotistical behaviours account (along with our typical ignorance of how to live wisely) for much of the suffering we experience - living with wisdom and compassion (through love) can eliminate much of this. Buddhism is clear that this is important in giving us the space required to see that there is a path to escape. (one by which it can be transcended)

Both Buddhism and ACIM teach that in the end we must stop reacting aggressively to what life and others seem to do to us - ACIM uses the term forgiveness, Buddhism talks about caring but not caring - equanimity. Both because by not doing so (by lashing out even if only mentally) we in effect make real the world and its nastiness in our minds. At the physical level our actions in lashing out make the reality we each experience.

This seems a lot more logical if we can accept that both what we take as ourself (our body and conscious mind) and the world are actually creations of our own mind and ultimately unreal - we project as apparently external that which we fear and dislike, so that when we lash out at it we're in effect attacking ourselves. (this is also the reason why universally loving behaviours towards all are the only way - we're in effect loving ourselves)

This however is only a part of what we're about, there's no heaven possible in this reality.

Escape from this reality requires that we awaken from the dream, that we cease to be taken in by its appearance of reality. It's in fact the work of ego, which out of fear wants us to remain separate from God/higher mind. To achieve this we must stop the above lashing out, as this gives it reality in our minds. At the physical level it creates suffering for all, and drives us deeper into the dream.

Hence the need for the forgiveness ACIM talks of - 'it never happened'.

The eventual transcendence of this reality makes possible our return to God, Heaven,  the reality where all is joy and love or whatever you call it.

Getting there is another matter, and no small task. It's in fact the work of many, many lifetimes. We have to transition from unconsciously digging ourselves deeper into the dream, to deciding there must be another way, to starting to see intellectually that love is the way, to learning what this means in practice, to using willpower to try it out and gain experience, to eventually in a wise, compassionate and skillful way deploy love as our natural unthinking response, to eventually it's becoming the only response we're capable of.

At which time we wake up, and with the dropping of our belief in this reality it falls away.

All 100% in opposition to our conditioning and the prompting of society and our instincts.

No easy task. We all get there in the end it seems, but it's not the work of an evening, and it extends far beyond simple intellectual understanding (which counts for little). We become something else (or we rediscover what we truly are and always have been) - something far greater than a frail physical body and mind in a hostile world.

The most effective means of speeding the process up seems to be self work - with the assistance of Grace/higher mind, and while following one of the spiritual paths.

Sorry not to provide a simpler answer Sonia, or to respond directly to your questions. The good news is that your seeking spiritually suggests that you are probably well on the way - it's said that it's with conscious enquiry that our progress really accelerates.

Maybe you'd consider (if you are not already) working one of the spiritual paths - it's only over time that this stuff starts to become real....

Many words like me, a few words like Blink - there's stuff it's tough to communicate in words Sonia.

Here's references containing containing some clues, the Buddha's flower sermon is the quintessential expression of this - it gave rise to Zen which basically seeks to avoid the use of words in the transmission of spiritual teaching.

http://www.dallasmindfulness.com/zen_buddhism_taoism.htm
http://paulocoelhoblog.com/warrioroflight/06.02.2008/issue-n%C2%BA165-learning-f...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_Sermon

I guess it's all driving at the idea that there's an inexpressible something at work in a realised person - a person truly living through love.

We're inclined to think that loving intention, the resulting behaviours, and the courage to see them through all flow from intellectual understanding and conscious willpower.

Study, self work and commitment are certainly important while on the path, but the characteristics you describe are in the end when realised emergent and intuitive.

They arise fully formed in the person - intuitively and spontaneously from higher mind, from Spirit/Grace or whatever.

Our recent thread on the subject of theoretical vs. practical sprituality dealt with another perspective on this - the ineffectiveness of solely intellectual approaches to spirituality. It's mostly practical experience and self work that leads to emergence of the above: http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1223067594/0#0

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 26^th, 2008 at 8:32pm:


Why do you wish to be proven wrong, Alysia?

What attitude do you expect from me.

If I did you or anybody wrong/hurt on this board, I'ld like to come to understanding about it, to do something about it.

But I want the change in ME to be real even if it takes me longer than what you would like.

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 26^th, 2008 at 8:32pm:

--> I put this sentence here, because I don't really understand it.

I just wanted to add that the things you all write on this board matter to me, but I read it and think about it and assimilate it at my own pace and I don't always feel a need/urge to add any comment to what is written.

I probably do not thank you enough for all you do here, for me and many others.

Thank you Alysia for letting me know somehow how you feel about my attitude. That too, teaches me something about how I should care, and I feel grateful for that lesson.

Sonia

Hi Sonia I  feel love is just love,you can give love out but it does no t always mean you will get it back and that hurts but you just keep giving it out because in the end you are giving the love out from inside you,if i get my feelings hurt i learnt not to show it because i would never let on because if you let on then they have won ,so just smile and cry inside like i do,it makes life a lot better.

Love and God bless  love juditha

Sonia said: I just wanted to add that the things you all write on this board matter to me, but I read it and think about it and assimilate it at my own pace and I don't always feel a need/urge to add any comment to what is written.

I probably do not thank you enough for all you do here, for me and many others.

Thank you Alysia for letting me know somehow how you feel about my attitude. That too, teaches me something about how I should care, and I feel grateful for that lesson.
_____

Awhile back Sonia wanted to know all about love. the above what you just wrote has love bouncing off the words Sonia.
not the first part of your post. but what you ended up on, is a gift to me, to this board, because I am one who has been reading everything you post.
and so is Joe and Ian.

sometimes I just want a yeehaw or a go put it where the sun don't shine, anything, a comment to show you guys are not just figments of my imagination.
I'll tell you  what, my childhood taught me one thing of value to pass on: the worst offense is saying to another person, child, or animal, a non response, to not answer anything they say, or apathy. but that's my problem not yours.

I know how many hours it takes to  be on a forum, and I noticed Sonia does assimilate something, as she said she did. so I believe her.
However, it doesn't seem that you express anything that is connected to someone else's post. in what they have presented.

all of Sonia's posts are emotional appeals. I think I was looking here, on this board for more talk about Monroe's and Moen's books, and the concepts therein.
so u see it's back to my problem.

what I can do is stay in the book forum then as that is where I probably can get what I want, the stimulation I need. also I noted Ian said so much that is the same what I would say to Sonia, and two days had gone by, and no response on the ideas presented. if we are to be or develop a group growth concept, we do need to try and complete the circle of threads as best we can, like if you start a topic, I would reccommend to try and close it before starting up another one with the same exact content as the one that is not closed yet.

Joe, you show a remarkable intuitive grasp of human nature, bless you!

in conclusion, I somehow got what I wanted just now. Did you get something Sonia? I thought you did. something of an emotion, that is like PUL, perhaps a facet, the gratitude expressed is all that's needed.

I think I myself am far too long winded to stay on this board much longer however, at least on this general section.

lol. words are not enough anymore. love, alysia

Quote:


What if the answer to this only exists in a non-verbal form? You can't use words to answer because the answer doesn't fit in words. And what if the answer is a process...spirit leading..you following? but no words.

Nanner is repeating the essential point of my last post Sonia. Sorry if I  wasn't clear Nanner.

Loving behaviours are ultimately not a matter of intention, or of conscious knowledge. When fully integrated they are as I said emergent - the required wisdom and compassion are inherent in the person, and they just happen naturally.

I set out in my first post one possible route to this. From recognition of the need, through conscious intention to just being. This is the way those of us of a more intellectual bent can get there.

But many manage it without I suspect ever consciously intellectualising the intermediate steps as a result of life experience, and the assistance of spirit. Also without ever following a formally set out spiritual path.

We've all met those thoroughly non intellectual souls that in an almost entirely unconscious manner embody loving behaviours - it's just what they are.

Teaching and intellectual knowing are anyway in terms of the old Buddhist story only like the raft we can use to cross the river so we avoid a longer detour - no matter how useful it was at the time we must still leave it behind to get to our final destination

The destination is perhaps more radical than we at first realise - no more than per the title of Gary Renard's book 'the disappearance of the universe'.

Meaning that this universe and all its beings are the creation of collective ego. When we drop all of the beliefs it ultimately entails the entire reality collapses and we return to God. While we're still en route the result is simply a progressively less unpleasant reality....