I started to read Seth about 20 years ago, then Robert Monroe, then onto Michael Newton. Recently started reading Scott Rogo's works.

I went to the Monroe Institute in April 2008, then found out about Bruce Moen's books. Now, I'm reading Moen's books while I'm rereading Seth. Gateway wasn't that great for me since I found myself "clicking out" while in the Cech unit all the time I was there. Meals were great, attendees very helpful, but found the week to be an expensive Rest & Recuperation.

Went to Gateway not knowing what to expect, and still haven't been able to "get" it, yet. Working on it, though. Was a psychology major in college so I'm respectful of how the mind operates in creating illusions, allusions, and delusions.

Immersing myself in Moen's books now, but wish I had read his works prior to the Gateway. Monroe's books opened my eyes, so to speak, about other consciousnesses, but no methodologies for getting There. Moen's works are more practical, as an engineer would have it always, and I've found them more helpful.

Can someone toss me some ideas on how to effectively get from Here to There?

Not a vegatarian, vegan, eat meat, don't meditate, drink coffee, alcohol sometimes, don't smoke, eat peanuts (a Scott Rogo No-No), and probably a bunch of other habits that makes it tough for me to get to There. Have the DVD's for Focus levels up to and including Focus 21. Use them now, but click out all the time.

Hi Ronny,
yes, I have been to GV and Lifeline, and there, too, were some who had this issue. Would you say you'd just fall asleep or really click out, which is like a hard break, as if a piece of time is just cut out, with no slow napping in and wakeup periods.
   I suggest you try Bruces methods. That way you could figure out if it's the HemiSync which makes you click out or if it's a general issue for you to stay awake.
   I only very rarely fall asleep while HemiSyncing / meditating, but a probable backside of it is, I have issues to fall asleep even when I want to.
   The breakthrough for me in the Gateway Voyage was when I allowed to let a "movie" unfold. I thought I'm making it all up and tended to stop it, but finally I decided to accept it and to treat it, just for the exercise, as if it were real.

Spooky

spooky2 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2008 at 11:55pm:


My first, and only to date, Gateway was what I consider to be a failure; am considering going back again for a Gateway, but this time better prepared as to what to expect. My background for the last 30 years has been in the area of numbers crunching. This is far removed from the nebulous, other consciousness. Now, I feel I've been directed to exploring these areas, and have less time than 30 years ago. As an aside, would anyone know if the Monroe Institute offers discounts to attendees who repeat a curriculum?

Do I fall asleep or really click out? Good question since I don't know the difference(s) between the two. All I know is when I lay down in my bed located in a darkened room and play the hemi-sync files stored on my Microsoft Zune (via good earbuds) I wake up close to an hour later not having consciously experienced any noticeable stimuli. I do wake up more refreshed than before I "went to sleep, or clicked out," but this could be due to the fact that I had about an hour of physical rest. Monroe claims the hemi-sync files do more than give one a restful sleep, and goes to claim that hearing the files and clicking out still has benefits.

I've taken to a sleep schedule that is more akin to what Seth suggested: sleep about five hours, wake and conduct life for about the same number of hours, then go back to sleep. Seth's approach states that sleeping more than six hours throws the physical body out of whack since too much sleep prevents the dream state from impacting the physical state. Seth recommended that there be a good mix of sleep and wake hours that is balanced more by five hours of sleep and about the same number of hours for waking. I also believe Edgar Cayce mentioned our modern sleep cycle (long sleep hours and long wake hours) is not conducive to good physical health.

Your experience of letting the movie unfold is very interesting. It's similar to what Moen wrote about in his second book, wherein he offers approaches to changing one's belief systems so that one is open to the other stimuli, some of which may even come from the unconscious levels. I've never meditated in my life; I can probably count the number of times I've meditated on both hands. And this is over a lifetime of close to 60 years. I've always thought it wasteful of one's time to sit for a few minutes to contemplate one's navel, so to speak. Most, if not all, my fellow Gateway attendees were already well versed in meditation, and had incorporated that regimen into their daily lives. In fact, the first five days of the six day Gateway did manifest in this manner for me: it helped me relax, not soon enough to partake of other benefits of the program before it ended on the sixth day.

I haven't read all of Moen's books so I'm not sure of what his method(s) of inducing altered consciousness is; of course, it's also possible that I've read of his method but because I am not attuned to this whole subject matter, that I might have filtered it out inadvertently.

Hi Ronnie,

Welcome!

Bruce's fifth book -- the guidebook to afterlife experiences is a full course in moving into afterlife realms.  You could skip any others for now and move directly into the Guidebook. -- It sounds as if you've been 'initiated' enough! 

I do most of what you do (or have listed you do) and I can still participate in the afterlife.  The preparation that I find most helpful is the deep but gentle breaths.  Bruce has a way of working with three from above,then three from below, but for my body I need to do some deep but gentle breathing daily.

If you could find some time, not to contemplate your navel, but just to quiet your mind or gaze on some aspect of nature that is calming, I expect that will also help.

Best wishes!

Betson

betson wrote on Oct 21^st, 2008 at 9:15am:


Betson, I've managed to accumulate a lot of books written by Moen. A bunch of other books too. I do a lot of research before I delve into a subject and prefer that others do the pioneering work while I mop us after them. Moen's works were detailed enough that I found them helpful, hence I'm on this board inquiring about additional information that I might not find in his written materials. I will obtain his fifth book which is his guide. Thanks for the suggestion that his fifth book will get me there faster and quicker than plodding through his other books which I have which does the same except in a lengthier and more descriptive fashion. I've found some of his chapters to be too figurative for me to grasp, somewhat akin to Monroe's written sections in his second work, Far Journeys, in which he goes to greater length and content on his concept of "loosh." That got me reaching a bit to understand what he was trying to tell his readers.

It is strange indeed that I now find myself in this position on my own path in life. A medium I recently enlisted suggested that I have been guided by the spirits to this area, from where I had been. I'm a very left-brained person, much more so than Moen who is trained as an engineer. I've had two unexpected OBE's in my own life years ago. After one major episode I sought the advice of another medium to help me decide whether or not I should pursue this area. After a cursory review of possible outcomes I decided the area of altered consciousness was too nebulous, and unrewarding monetarily, so I pursued even furrther and deeper into the physical world by crunching numbers and dealing with hard physical reality. In the realm of physical reality I'm quite accomplished.

The recent medium suggested that the spirits think it's time for people with my emphasis to delve into the altered consciousness since it will be easier for types like me to translate the research and works of those who've gone ahead earlier. Those more pioneer-like researchers would be less acceptable to the more general audiences, but what I find from the altered consciousness realms would be more believable to the general audiences since I am already well versed in their physical reality.

This can be likened to what Monroe did for meditative states. Prior to Monroe's work, one of the more successful ways of attaining interaction with the altered states was through years of self-imposed meditation through the eastern arts, e.g. yoga. Monroe wrote of an incident in which a practiced buddhist went to his institute and was extremely impressed with the alacrity by which he was able to attain heightened states of awareness using Monroe's hemi-sync tapes. The buddhist had spent years perfecting his "technique" that the Monroe method was able to help others achieve in a few days.

In a way, I might be at the forefront of taking the research and experiences of practioners like you and "preaching" to the masses. Inherent in this thought is the fact there will be more need from the masses for such knowledge. In a way, I feel that I am one of the apostles, twice or three times removed from the original 12.

Your thoughts?

Hi again Ronny,
what I recommend to everyone is a "mild", easy way of meditation.

The first goal simply is to get your mind away from the daily topics and concerns. To start with "No thoughts" is too difficult and long termed for most people, and often not even desired. The other approach is easier: Instead of clearing your mind in order to get in distance to the all-day hurry and schedule, simply imagine something. Close your eyes and imagine to be somewhere, the best would be at a place you don't know to avoid associations with your physical life's activities, a place you create. This may sound like a useless childish game, but it is a very effective method to reach an altered consciousness state, away from the physical into the nonphysical. (Btw, to train your imagination is useful for all sorts of things)

The second step then is to move from a controlled, active imagination to a more receptive one. This could be, you imagine to be in "your" landscape, and walk around with not too many expectations. You sooner or later will see in your mind things or persons you haven't planned to see. It will feel as if you are imagining it right now, but just go with the flow, and accept it as if it were real. When you do this for a while, and write down your experiences, and then re-read them, you will notice that the results are different from the usual imagination, dreaming, or daydreaming.

From that point on, you can go various ways: You could try to go to nonphysical places others have described (simply by your will to do so), or call for a helper to show you something interesting or to give you some answers, or try to do retrievals, or remote viewing or whatever.

The evaluation of what you get in those, what I call, mind-journeys is up to you. It is, at least in the beginning, a must to write down your experiences, because otherwise you WILL forget them like dreams. Once you have developed a "feeling" for these nonphysical / mind places and/or states, it will get easier to remember it even without writing it down, as it will become your second nature, and so to speak, you'll live in two worlds, which, at it's best, will correspond to a good degree.

Bruce's Guidebook contains a step-by-step approach of this.
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What you've told of Seth's comments about sleep-schedules, there's some truth in it, though I believe it varies to a great degree individually. What is a matter of fact unfortunately, a full-time job without an hour of rest/sleep in between, is a very hindering factor in achieving controlled states of nonphysical perception. When you got home from work after 8 hours or even more, you eat something and then... bump. You fall asleep (maybe while having a beer and watching tv...)  . 

Click out vs. fall asleep: I once listened to a HemiSync recording, and after a little while it made a "click", just like the cd-player couldn't track it properly, so I looked at the cd player and it had skipped about 20 minutes, impossible, as it would have taken some time for the sound head to move, and I looked at my watch, I remembered the time when I layed me down, and the watch, too, was twenty minutes later. So, there was a time gap of twenty minutes, it was a click-out, and I absolutely know nothing of what had happened during that time. It's a very odd experience.

Spooky

spooky2 wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 2:55am:


Hey Spooky,

Thanks for more insights from your experience repertoire. Last night I ordered a new copy of Moen's fifth book from www.Buy.com. I would normally order from www.Amazon.com, but I was only buying one book and the cost of the book was about $4 cheaper at buy.com; the shipping from either sellers was about the same. One of the businesses that we own, which we just started, is a non-profit used book store, so it sort of bothered me to be paying new book prices; but when there is a need, there is a need. What can I say? My wife and I started a used book store in honor of our recently deceased son who at the very young age of 19 ended his life. We are still grieving over his untimely death which is less than a year ago. Yes it was his death that spurred me onto my present course of delving into these arcane matters. All of our profits are to be donated to charitable causes. I've made a lot of money in for-profit ventures and suddenly I find myself in the realm of non-profits.

Your suggestions, which you credit to Moen, are very good. I can see how a progressive approach toward meditation will result in more little successes which eventually will lead to the big meditation kahuna.

Several weeks ago, after having reread a portion of Jane Robert's Seth books, I forced myself to start a dream journal. I have one right next to my pillow on my bed with a pen. The times I've had dreams and were able to recall some of them, I've managed to scribble some memories of them. Looking over the notes I can see a distinctly different recallability. The first few notes were vague and broad, but the most recent one went to greater length with more details.

Start small and move slowly. Eventually we'll get bigger and move quicker!

I have a philosophical quandary about Seth's suggested sleep schedules. Seth suggested sleeping as much as needed, not as much as forced. In his parlance, go to sleep and wake up when you want to. Then conduct business in the physical world till tired, then go to sleep again. By doing this, Seth said we should fall into a natural sleep/wake cycle of about five hours each. Seth said by doing this we will be more aware of our dream state since the separation of awareness of the dream state and the physical state wouldn't be that overt. The way we conduct our lives now, we sleep longer and stay awake longer, creating a schism between work and sleep, or physical world versus the dream world. My question is this: since we are in the physical world, why mustn't we stay in the physical world? Why even delve into the dream world? We will have our time, so to speak, in the dream world forever anyway when our physical world ends. It's akin to asking: why shouldn't we render unto Caesar, what is Caesar's? Or, to keep the thoughts flowing: why act like Greeks when we are in Rome (itself a play on when one is in Rome, one must act Roman)?

Ronny says: My question is this: since we are in the physical world, why mustn't we stay in the physical world? Why even delve into the dream world? We will have our time, so to speak, in the dream world forever anyway when our physical world ends. It's akin to asking: why shouldn't we render unto Caesar, what is Caesar's? Or, to keep the thoughts flowing: why act like Greeks when we are in Rome (itself a play on when one is in Rome, one must act Roman)?
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sounds like Madonna talking: lyrics follow: we are living in a material world, and I am a material girl..la la la.
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do as the Romans do and you well know you'll get what the Romans got. the way to render to Caesar his due is to scrutinize what Caesar is doing with our money. that's only the first step, to ask questions is left brained..to implement the answers is to receive those answers through receptive area of the right brained.

why dream? why explore dreams, why bother? because we are the dreamwalkers whether we want to be or not. we cannot deny we are this thing too, as well we cannot deny we operate through the flesh and love concrete evidence. it's like asking the egg or the chicken came first?  the chicken was here first. time is a movie.
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Spooky, I'm reading Ultimate Journeys, Monroe went home and describes it. He found what he termed "the basic."
I think I found the basic also. it's more or less, getting a known Ronny, and proceding from that known, to implement into the physical area, but the two, exploration and manifestation into physical are having to work in cycles of sleep and wakefulness, of C1 and phasing, back and forth. after awhile the two cycles eventually balance out, from what you are doing, persevering in self study, of human consciousness.

without a dream, a man is nothing.