Conversation Board - Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...

spooky2 Super Member Offline Afterlife Knowledge Member Posts: 2368	Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ... Reply #15 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:52pm Hi Alysia, "the basic"? What chapter is it? I still have only a German translation, and some keywords might be changed. Spooky
Back to top	"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher" IP Logged

betson

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 3445
SE USA
Gender: female

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #16 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 10:00am

Greetings,

I'm backtracking here in an attempt to catch up Wink

Ronny, you are probably right if you infer that daily living is more important than interest in the afterlife. We are sent to earth for earthly reasons. However a consideration that comes into play is that many people in contemporary cultures aren't fulfilling their potential in daily life due to the spiritual warps and holes in current culture.
I think that the spiritual aspect of religion has been overlayed by fears and anxieties or by social concerns. So we come to spiritual explorers like Moen and Monroe to find out what it's truly all about. Here we find that we can help others ( an earth-related activity) as well as helping our own souls by retrieving and visiting in the spiritual realms/ focus levels. That's why we get involved.
Do you have concerns about the validity of helping in that way?

And another question for Ronny,
The repeatabliltiy of an experience is proven (indicated?), it seems to me, by the number of testimonies on the web by people who've experienced 'afterlife explorations,' NDEs, etc.
How is 'repeatability' defined?
I hope it's not too narrow a definition because the part of humans that is involved in these explorations isn't interested in repeating itself, it seems. It always appears to be seeking relationship or the healing of breaks in relationships-- human to human or human to God/Source. Data can be developed on this, I'm sure!

As you note, the best way to motivate any further involvement is to make sure you have shared the experience. I think Bruce's Guidebook will get you to that goal in the most direct way.

Betson

Back to top

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare

IP Logged

LaffingRain

Super Member

Offline

Choose this Day

Posts: 5249
Arizona
Gender: female

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #17 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 11:46pm

spooky2 wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 5:52pm:

Hi Alysia, "the basic"? What chapter is it? I still have only a German translation, and some keywords might be changed.

Spooky

Hi Spooky, I will try to find the page, in general, I started rereading this book from the middle. here something interesting:

quote: There is a broad field of energy which for convenience is called M (band) It is virtually unrecognized in our contemporary civilization.
It is the only energy field common to and operational both within and outside time/space, and is present in all physical matter.
Pg 185
alysia speaketh: the M band chapter has much to do with the influences of interaction with one another, as in the consensus agreement areas. it reminds me of holographic mind creation areas; also mentioned is there is no God as we think of god in traditional concept. as a person who likes to study religion and spiritual paths, I find Monroe conceding he wants to meet just once, The Ultimate Designer. It is difficult, even for this pioneering explorer to conceive totally, that it is we who are in control of this world and who have created it jointly.
However, Bob is not interested in projecting any sort of religion, nor does he use terms such as spirituality. He uses physical and nonphysical forms of life for a reason. basically, because on this planet it is a belief system planet, of variants.

Bob's main premise is to help humanity to realize we do indeed continue, that life in the body simply means we exit the body for a nonphysical life station. He wants to put people's fears aside regarding death. A tall order. It is my own intentions.

found it: page 221: In this obe story, Bob had been obe for longer than he should have. the body had grown cold. His I/there told him to get back to his body quickly. It took several days to return his body to normal operation. He goes on to assert, although the body returned to normal function, Bob's essence of himself, did not. There was, he said, not simply a Different Overview, but "a remembering of unlimited freedom, an ever so slight glimpse of an

ultimate option. and he continues, "And I knew that I had the missing Basic!

In Ultimate Journey, we do not find the answers to our own personal journeys. What we find is one man's extraordinary journey, and finding out what and who he was, and what gifts he could give out here, and bring back to his I/there.
So he was interested in service ideals, and this related to the above about informing people you will indeed meet up again with those whom you love, who have gone ahead of you.

It was through Monroe I learned I was capable of doing a retrieval many years ago. love, alysia

Back to top

Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness

IP Logged

Ronny

New Member

Offline

Posts: 37
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #18 - Oct 25^th, 2008 at 2:25pm

spooky2 wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2008 at 7:04pm:

Hi Ronny,
sad thing about your son. I hope your activities triggered by his leaving can help you cope with it.

Why are we dreaming? Well, don't expect I'll explain it! First of all, when we speak of being in the physical-being in the nonphysical, that's very simplified. Every experience, thought, imagination etc. which isn't directly caused by physical input isn't really purely physical. In Monroe speak, we are "phasing" all the time. So I'd say waking and sleeping are not totally divided worlds, but states of a different center focus.
Most, if not all higher mammals do sleep. I watched some cats showing all signs of dreaming. Beneath the simple statement that sleep is a biological necessity, sleep is necessary to keep balanced. Without sleep, we would get lost in all the data we're confronted with, through sleeping and dreaming we reprocess the data, weigh them and sort them into categories. As well, we seem to need sleep to maintain our personality, our own viewpoint and opinion; without it, all starts to be the same for us, a million tiny bits of perceptions without meaning, driving us crazy. Another interesting thing is, when sleep deprivated, people eventually start hallucinating. We could interprete this as the thinning of the veil between the physical and the nonphysical, physical input, nonphysical occurances, imaginations, and compositions of all that cannot any longer be filtered and sorted correctly, a big blur and chaos is the result. So, when Seth/Roberts is suggesting short waking/sleeping periods, it might indeed result in a stronger bleedthrough of both states, but we're still able to identify the sources/places of our experiences, due to the still divided states of awake-sleeping. The final thing is the idea of a sort of nourishing of our soul/consciousness, going back to our home, recharge, receive guidance. Though the idea is common, I don't know of any first hand accounts of people who remembered this sort of thing.

So to say, as a Greek in Rome, well you remain a Greek, only being in Rome (with a bit foggy memory of your home though)

.

Spooky

Thanks Spooky for your additional thoughts. Monroe considers our existences (be they physical or non-physical) to be phasing. Seth had spoken about that via Roberts. Seth stated our physical life is not a solid-state continuum, but a sort of oscillation between physical state and non-physical (I don't recall exactly what term(s) he used for the non-physical). It is also interesting to note that Monroe did go to Jane Roberts and apparently did have a reading conducted by Roberts; nothing more was said or written about that episode either by Roberts or Monrow (if the board users know of what transpired at that meeting I would be appreciate knowing what happened).

I agree with you 100% of the dichotomy between physical, waking existence versus the dream state. In fact, you stated what I perceive to be the "truth" rather succinctly.

Implicit in your closing comment, i.e. "you remain a Greek, only being in Rome," one can never be totally Roman even in the NOW, or in the future, since one is Greek by origination. This conclusion however, is fraught with logical perils. What about being Greek in the past? When did one become Greek in the past to the point that one can never be Roman, even in the NOW or in the FUTURE?

Back to top

IP Logged

Ronny

New Member

Offline

Posts: 37
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #19 - Oct 25^th, 2008 at 2:43pm

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 2:53pm:

Ronny says: My question is this: since we are in the physical world, why mustn't we stay in the physical world? Why even delve into the dream world? We will have our time, so to speak, in the dream world forever anyway when our physical world ends. It's akin to asking: why shouldn't we render unto Caesar, what is Caesar's? Or, to keep the thoughts flowing: why act like Greeks when we are in Rome (itself a play on when one is in Rome, one must act Roman)?
_____

sounds like Madonna talking: lyrics follow: we are living in a material world, and I am a material girl..la la la.
____
do as the Romans do and you well know you'll get what the Romans got. the way to render to Caesar his due is to scrutinize what Caesar is doing with our money. that's only the first step, to ask questions is left brained..to implement the answers is to receive those answers through receptive area of the right brained.

why dream? why explore dreams, why bother? because we are the dreamwalkers whether we want to be or not. we cannot deny we are this thing too, as well we cannot deny we operate through the flesh and love concrete evidence. it's like asking the egg or the chicken came first? the chicken was here first. time is a movie.
_____

Spooky, I'm reading Ultimate Journeys, Monroe went home and describes it. He found what he termed "the basic."
I think I found the basic also. it's more or less, getting a known Ronny, and proceding from that known, to implement into the physical area, but the two, exploration and manifestation into physical are having to work in cycles of sleep and wakefulness, of C1 and phasing, back and forth. after awhile the two cycles eventually balance out, from what you are doing, persevering in self study, of human consciousness.

without a dream, a man is nothing.

Your post is another way of looking at the interaction of our dream/wake state, and how a good balance of the two will result in finding solutions from the dreamworld to apply to our waking state.

What also has been written, reported, alluded to, etc., is the impact the physical world has on the dreamstate. From both Seth and Monroe, we know the physical state is a school for learning for us. The physical state apparently speeds up the process of learning for us. In the dreamstate, the learning process has no schedule (as defined by passing of time, which is one of the greatest benefits of the physical state), and hence can go off tangentially to a literal infinity. How is this shown by Monroe's research? How is this shown by researchers such as Moen, et al? By both these humans reporting that when in the dreamstate, other entities who occupy that region cannot communicate with lower level Focus fixated "humans," but the humans-in-dreamstate-form are the ones who can interact with these humans better.

Even Seth stated without the prior connections that Seth and Jane Roberts established in previous existences, that Seth would not be able to manifest his thoughts and beliefs. Monroe discovered that once his part of his complete soul finishes whatever the group needs to do, that the combined entity goes elsewhere (no longer at Focus levels) and can never come back in reincarnatable human forms. I think a board user applied the term "blink out" to show that once a soul group blinks out, that it can no longer reincarnate in human form, and that no entity has ever made it back to report back to us humans what happens in that area. Even Moen in his second book indicated that he doesn't know what happens after a soul blinks out.

Back to top

IP Logged

LaffingRain

Super Member

Offline

Choose this Day

Posts: 5249
Arizona
Gender: female

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #20 - Oct 26^th, 2008 at 2:55am

Hi Ronnie. I haven't read a lot of Seth, except to get glimpses of how we create our personal reality with our thought forms, our beliefs.

so I may not be able to add much to your thread as I see you are comparing Monroe with the Seth stuff. I do this comparison thing also, but not with Seth material, a bit with Elias material however, which I have found Elias stuff less dry to read, yet along the same lines of creating one's personal reality.

My research is to align A Course in Miracles theology up alongside Monroe's journals and research. the two thought systems align perfectly with my beliefs. Also Elias would say each of us have been between 800 and 1200 personalities, as in lives lived, while Monroe likens the retrieval of these, are within our disc, and gathering them all together is when maximum velocity and winking out occurs, when all the selves are gathered.

winking out can align perfectly with such terms as ascension or graduation or enlightenment. I like Monroe's description "there is nothing here for me now." been there, done that. It would appear logically a soul comes here to "do it all."
Once it is all done, we continue elsewhere, and a great deal of discussion is done here about that, but conclusive only to the individual who has experience out of body, or phasing.
this type of exploration is still in it's beginning stages for humanity.

I was curious in the beginning why physical helpers were needed to wake up, or retrieve a nonphysical being, to the fact they had crossed or transitioned, while guides and helpers on that side of things, were unable to get the attention of the transitioned being, stuck in a belief that they were still physical, but perhaps dreaming.

As it is explained, we here in the physical vibration, align with the thought system, or vibratory rate of the deceased, at that level, as well, I think that is why we can get their attention.

where I do believe within those who get stuck in their various beliefs, it just had never occurred to them that retrievers existed who do this work, and the nonphysical helpers can see and understand these perfectly, and therefore can guide the retrievers to these. Also for newbies here, Monroe reports most of us make it to focus 27, the way station quite efficiently on our own upon death. as well, a number of retrievals are those within our own disc, our own selves, and even our childhood selves that has fragmentized from truama.

don't want to get into the holographics thing here, but I do believe portions of ourselves can break away and need retrieving as well.

the idea of physical life, of a soul, is to eventually bring back a gift to the entire group soul or disc. such as some accomplishment which in some way aided the evolvement of mankind. it can be anything which is related to service. even to a low paying job done without complaint, is also a gift all the way up to being in positions of power and still being honest in service.

In ACIM, it is more simply written, that we are to remember all our brothers are One with us. in the same way all your lives are One with you. well, I'm still reading Ultimate Journeys and have to get back to it..I think Monroe is still gathering us all together, but blast off is not supposed to occur until 1,000 linear years...so finding the edges of infinity is definetely not one of my lucrative pastimes, as there's too much to do and see right here before this life span is up. hope to hear more from you Ronny.

Back to top

Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness

IP Logged

spooky2

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 2368

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #21 - Oct 26^th, 2008 at 10:35pm

Alysia, thanks for digging it up, the missing basic, I remember it, Monroe's, so to say, pre-ultimate journey; it was his "aha" moment, when he put it all together, the question "have you brought some gifts with you?" the retrievals and the re-completion of his I/There to get ready to wink out. Yes, maybe it is a sort of source he went to, though not the final one probably, as Monroe's UJ seems not to speak of the ultimate or a final goal, but more of neverending steps in evolution.

Ronny, yes, your mind is certainly not sleeping! It's true what you said about the Greek-in-Rome thing. Of course, this thinking in distinct steps/states is a simplification which doesn't work when thinking of it consequently. In fact, as long as we're within time, we never are "now" and "here" alone, but as well we're all that we've ever been. (As long as it is not underlayed a digital time structure; this would rise some problems, such as the question of the connectedness of the single bits) Similarly, I see the consciousness states as interwoven, only the focus wanders between different states, and bandwidths. But this is something I lack of further direct insights, such as the structure of "me", if there are different versions of me who maybe don't share all of their knowledge with each other, and whether there is a "central" (I/There, disk) which is coordinating all of me, or if it's structured somehow differently.

Spooky

Back to top

"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"

IP Logged

LaffingRain

Super Member

Offline

Choose this Day

Posts: 5249
Arizona
Gender: female

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #22 - Oct 27^th, 2008 at 3:46pm

about the thing Spooky said, I'm reducing it into my practical level again, so sorry if I mess up your thought..about the parts or ourselves which do not communicate with the other parts, example of Monroe: it's said in ultimate Journey he went to visit with his future self, and there was communication of some sort between the two that are one.

(I don't know the page but sure I'll come across it shortly) so anyhoo, this sort of experience does not occur for most of us, speaking in general, to actually meet up with the future self and have a flicker of recognition on both of the selve's part. (sort of holographic isn't it?)

for many though, the review of a past life is much easier to gather together and we have much literature to point to that.
now, duh, where was I? I know I was going somewhere with this thought, lol. I'm disappearing. oh here I go. it's about C1.

C1 is limited awareness by definition, in order to have a defined ELS experience with an intention, it would have to be a limited focus into a certain locale and general climate conducive to having or attaining that experience of a particular lifetime.

I would say that we all can achieve the communication we desire with all our selves at some point. perhaps by preparation and opening to the possibilities of that. I'm thinking of how at night while the body sleeps, I'm aware I'm sometimes here, with you all, I get images of our togetherness. snatches of conversation to unfold, etc.

in the context of how much info can my finite mind hold within an infinity of knowledge without making the present personality jarred loose from it's foundations, I cannot say that it is wise to become dissatisfied to the extreme with our lack of knowing everything.

rather, I am expressing faith in that we are advancing efficiently within the plan as well as can be expected by experiencing limitation, and going ahead despite of limitation.

sort of new age huh? lol.

Back to top

Who takes away death's sting deprives life of bitterness

IP Logged

Ronny

New Member

Offline

Posts: 37
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #23 - Oct 29^th, 2008 at 4:31pm

Sorry, I haven't been attending to some of the responses here, but a friend of over 30 years just passed away this Saturday and I'm in the process of taking care of some of his affairs.

Meanwhile, I've looked over my last eight years and have noticed I've had an average of one person, either very close friend, or relative, or immediate family, die in each of those eight years.

2001 -- a close business/friend who died destitute and didn't leave enough money to be buried.
2002 -- a brother-in-law who died of complications from a heart attack at the age of 50
2005 -- an ex who died at the age of 56 of lung cancer
2006 -- a friend and psychic who died while I was out of town
2006 -- a business friend I've known since the late 1970's who died of a blood disease
2007 -- my only child
2008 -- recently a friend who I've known since 1976 from a failed liver
2008 -- a friend who died at the age of 80

I guess the spirits are directing me to start a new direction.

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #24 - Oct 30^th, 2008 at 3:55pm

Hello Ronnie:

Some people won't like me for this, but here I go. Think more than twice before you put any source on a pedestal. Jane Roberts Seth might have some good things to say, but she also has some questionable things to say. Don't make the mistake of limiting yourself to that sleep pattern thing.

For a number of reasons I believe Jane Roberts made up Seth. Wouldn't be the first nor the last time somebody makes up a channeled entity. I won't provide a complete list of why I believe Jane Roberts made up Seth, but here are a couple of reasons. For one thing, I found an internet article where a man who worked for Jane Robert's publisher stated that it was known by her publisher than Jane made up Seth. He also stated that before she would supposedly channel Seth, her husband would cruise the room and speak to people, and relay the information he obtained to Jane so she could make use of it. I saw a Seth video where Jane suddenly broke out of her Seth voice for a moment so she could say: "We'll take a break in a moment." This seemed very odd. There are various other reasons, but I'll stop here.

You'd probably be better off considering what out of body explorers like Robert Monroe, Bruce Moen and William Buhlman have to say rather than what supposed channeled entities have to say. Not that out of body explorers have all of the answers, but they don't tend to claim that they have all of the answers. They simply share what they've experienced, while channeled sources assert that they are some kind of all knowing being and therefore infallible. If one relies on them too heavily, one will just end up taking on a belief system.

Regarding making contact with your I-there, I've made contact with my I-there in various ways, and my way of doing so didn't precisely match Robert Monroe's and Bruce Moen's way of doing so. Each of us will do so in our own way.

I believe what is key is to get over the psychological factors that limit us. The more I have done so the more my energetic system has been cleansed, and the easier it has become for me to make contact with my spirit friends and have various experiences.

Regarding diet, I eat a very healthy vegetarian diet, don't drink, don't take drugs, don't smoke, and don't consume caffein. My spirit guidance has provided me with tips on how it is important to be careful about what I put into my body. I can't say that this is necessary for everybody.

I've found that growing in love is far more important than going out of body. If you grow in love, it'll become easier to make contact with beings of love and light and explore various realms.

One good thing about making contact with my I-there is that I found out each part of an I-there doesn't have to incarnate numerous times. It is a team effort that I-there members share together. There may be occasions where parts incarnate more than once. People receive conflicting information on this. I've always received the message that each part incarnates only once, while Bruce seems to believe that parts incarnate more than once. It is hard to say why such a discrepancy exists. I'm not certain, but I doubt that Bruce believes that parts/probes have to incarnate numerous times. Bruce wrote of meeting up with his I-there/disk members during his explorations. As far as I know, these disk members didn't speak of the enlightenment some sources state you have to obtain before you stop reincarnating, yet they were able to rejoin their I-there/disk.

I've found that people who have explored the spirit World have a much more flexible idea about reincarnation than sources that haven't explored the spirit World. Don't worry about being a soul who isn't old enough to obtain what you hope to obtain. You're interest is the key. Get ready for some surprises. People often find out that their spiritual progression doesn't work out like they expected it to work out.

Albert

Back to top

« Last Edit: Oct 30^th, 2008 at 8:20pm by recoverer »

IP Logged

Ronny

New Member

Offline

Posts: 37
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #25 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 4:20pm

I agree with you on some of your perceptive comments. I'd like to address them with some of my thoughts. I haven't figured out how to insert new text within a quote yet, but I will insert my thoughts as total caps within the quote so my thoughts will be separated from your original comments.

recoverer wrote on Oct 30^th, 2008 at 3:55pm:

Hello Ronnie:

Some people won't like me for this, but here I go. Think more than twice before you put any source on a pedestal. Jane Roberts Seth might have some good things to say, but she also has some questionable things to say. Don't make the mistake of limiting yourself to that sleep pattern thing.

I AGREE WITH YOU IN THE ABOVE COMMENTS. SINCE I AM DEALING IN AN AREA THAT IS NOT QUANTIFIABLE, BUT ONLY SUBJECTIVELY VERIFIED, I TRY NOT TO LEAVE MYSELF OPEN TO INCORRECT CONCLUSIONS. WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS TO KNOW THE METHODS, BUT THE OBJECTIVES OF THOSE METHODS. IN THE CASE OF SETH SUGGESTING A SHORTER SLEEP-WAKE CYCLE, THE OBJECTIVE IS TO LESSEN THE SEPARATION BETWEEN THE TWO STATES. IN LONGER SLEEP-WAKE CYCLES, THE SEPARATION BETWEEN THE TWO COMPONENTS SEPARATES THE DREAM STATE FROM THE WAKE STATE.

For a number of reasons I believe Jane Roberts made up Seth. Wouldn't be the first nor the last time somebody makes up a channeled entity. I won't provide a complete list of why I believe Jane Roberts made up Seth, but here are a couple of reasons. For one thing, I found an internet article where a man who worked for Jane Robert's publisher stated that it was known by her publisher than Jane made up Seth. He also stated that before she would supposedly channel Seth, her husband would cruise the room and speak to people, and relay the information he obtained to Jane so she could make use of it. I saw a Seth video where Jane suddenly broke out of her Seth voice for a moment so she could say: "We'll take a break in a moment." This seemed very odd. There are various other reasons, but I'll stop here.

THE THOUGHT THAT ROBERTS MADE UP SETH ALSO IS AN OPEN HYPOTHESIS THAT I AM OPERATING UNDER. HENCE, MY DETAILED AND PRECISE STUDY OF SETH'S TEACHINGS. YES, I AM READING ROBERTS BOOKS WITH A FINE TOOTH COMB, LOOKING FOR INCONSISTENCIES AND NON SEQUITURS. ALSO, AT THE SAME TIME I NEED TO BE OPEN TO THE OBJECTIVES OF SETH'S TEACHINGS AND WORK BACKWARDS TO DETERMINE IF THE METHODOLOGIES ACHIEVE THOSE OBJECTIVES, AND WHETHER OR NOT OTHER METHODS CAN ACHIEVE THE SAME OBJECTIVES. AS TO OTHER SOURCES MAKING CLAIMS THAT ROBERTS CONDUCTED PRE-STAGING, HOW ARE WE TO KNOW THAT THE SOURCE OF THAT INFORMATION MIGHT NOT ALSO BE QUESTIONABLE?

I CHECKED YOUTUBE.COM AND FOUND A FEW OF ROBERTS VIDEOS AND I SAW A FEW TIMES WHEN ROBERTS DID "BREAK UP" HER TRANCE WITH RATHER INCONGRUOUS ACTIONS. ONE WOULD THINK THAT IF ONE WERE TO MOVE OUT OF A TRANCE THAT THE ACTIONS MIGHT FOLLOW A MORE ORDAINED WINDING DOWN; BUT WHO IS TO SAY THAT ROBERTS ACTION OF GETTING OUT A TRANCE IS NOT EFFECTIVE, I.E. HOW DO WE KNOW IT ISN'T ACCURATE?

You'd probably be better off considering what out of body explorers like Robert Monroe, Bruce Moen and William Buhlman have to say rather than what supposed channeled entities have to say. Not that out of body explorers have all of the answers, but they don't tend to claim that they have all of the answers. They simply share what they've experienced, while channeled sources assert that they are some kind of all knowing being and therefore infallible. If one relies on them too heavily, one will just end up taking on a belief system.

HERE AGAIN IS MY OWN DILEMMA. IT APPEARS AS IF THE TOOLS AND APPROACHES WE USE TO INVESTIGATE THE OBSERVATIONS FROM THESE VARIOUS EXPLORERS ARE ALSO SUBJECT TO CHANGE. HOW AM I TO BELIEVE THAT THESE OBSERVATIONS FROM THESE EXPLORERS MIGHT NOT BE THEIR OWN BELIEF SYSTEMS (PER MONROE'S TERMINOLOGY)? PERHAPS THERE ARE NOT FOCUS LEVELS EXCEPT THOSE THAT ARE DEIGNED TO EXIST WITHIN MONROE'S BELIEF SYSTEM. AND SINCE IT IS MONROE WHO CONJURED THESE FOCUS LEVELS UP, AND WE AS POTENTIAL APOSTLES FOLLOW IN NOT ONLY THE CREATION BUT ALSO THE REINFORCEMENT OF THESE FOCUS LEVELS, WE MAY BE ABETTING THE CREATION OF MONROE'S ONLY BELIEF SYSTEMS.

Regarding making contact with your I-there, I've made contact with my I-there in various ways, and my way of doing so didn't precisely match Robert Monroe's and Bruce Moen's way of doing so. Each of us will do so in our own way.

THE VAGARIES OF THE I-THERE, THEY-HERE, MY-US, AD ABSURDUM, CREATES A LOT OF DOUBTS WITHIN MY OWN MIND, WHATEVER THAT MAY NOW BE.

I believe what is key is to get over the psychological factors that limit us. The more I have done so the more my energetic system has been cleansed, and the easier it has become for me to make contact with my spirit friends and have various experiences.

SINCE I'VE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN COMMUNICATING WITH THE SPIRITS ON THE OTHER SIDE, I CANNOT VERIFY OR CONDONE ANY OF YOUR OBSERVATIONS AND EXPERIENCES. AND EVEN IF I WERE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH THOSE ON THE OTHER SIDE, HOW DO I KNOW IF WHAT I'VE EXPERIENCED IS A REALITY, OR JUST MY OWN CREATION OF MY OWN REALITY?

Regarding diet, I eat a very healthy vegetarian diet, don't drink, don't take drugs, don't smoke, and don't consume caffein. My spirit guidance has provided me with tips on how it is important to be careful about what I put into my body. I can't say that this is necessary for everybody.

THIS IS A PROBLEM FOR ME TO ACCEPT WHEN OTHER EXPLORERS TELL ME THEIR SPIRIT GUIDES ARE ADDRESSING THEM. HOW DO I KNOW THE SPIRIT GUIDE ISN'T A SEPARATE PERSONALITY CONSTRUCT OF A MIND THAT CANNOT INTEGRATE WELL? COMMON PSYCHOANALYTICAL PROBLEMS ABOUND WHEREIN SEPARATE COMPONENTS OF PERSONALITIES ARE NOT INTEGRATED TO FORM A FULLY WELL FUNCTIONING PERSON IN OUR WORLD. SCHIZOPHRENIA, IS AN EXTREME EXAMPLE OF DISSOCAITED PERSONALITIES.

I've found that growing in love is far more important than going out of body. If you grow in love, it'll become easier to make contact with beings of love and light and explore various realms.

ON A PHYSICAL LEVEL, WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD PROBLEMS UNDERSTANDING WHAT LOVE IS, WHAT TYPES OF LOVE THERE ARE. WHEN I READ YOUR COMMENT ABOUT GROWIING IN LOVE, OR MONROE FEELING AN ENTITY'S LOVE, ETC., I AM BEFUDDLED AS TO WHAT IT IS THEY ARE EXPERIENCING. IS IT A WARM FUZZY FEELING? IS IT THE SACRIFICE OF ONE'S LIFE FOR ANOTHER? WHAT IS THIS LOVE IDEA THAT CAN SO MINUTELY BE ENCAPSULATED NOT BY ACTIONS, BUT MERELY BY PRESENCE OF BEING THERE?

One good thing about making contact with my I-there is that I found out each part of an I-there doesn't have to incarnate numerous times. It is a team effort that I-there members share together. There may be occasions where parts incarnate more than once. People receive conflicting information on this. I've always received the message that each part incarnates only once, while Bruce seems to believe that parts incarnate more than once. It is hard to say why such a discrepancy exists. I'm not certain, but I doubt that Bruce believes that parts/probes have to incarnate numerous times. Bruce wrote of meeting up with his I-there/disk members during his explorations. As far as I know, these disk members didn't speak of the enlightenment some sources state you have to obtain before you stop reincarnating, yet they were able to rejoin their I-there/disk.

I JUST FINISHED MOEN'S FIRST BOOK, HALF-WAY THROUGH THE SECOND, WITH BOOK THREE AND BOOK FOUR TO GO. I READ THE DISK PART QUICKLY SO I DON'T KNOW THIS CONCEPT OF MOEN'S DISK IDEA WELL ENOUGH TO COMMENT. YET, HERE AGAIN, FROM YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE AND MOEN'S OWN EXPERIENCE, ARE TWO DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES IN REINCARNATION. I CAN UNDERSTAND THIS TO BE SIMILAR TO THE BLIND MEN CHECKING OUT THE ELEPHANT: ONE FEELS THE EARS AND THINKS THE ELEPHANT IS FLAT; ANOTHER FEELS THE TUSK AND THINKS THE ELEPHANT IS HARD AND ELONGATED; ETC., ETC. I CAN ARGUE THAT YOU BOTH ARE SEEING REINCARNATION FROM DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES, AND YOU BOTH CAN BE CORRECT. FOR MYSELF, I HAVE TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE EACH OF YOU ARE COMING FROM IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE PARADIGM OF REINCARNATION WELL ENOUGH TO DISCOURSE ON IT.

I've found that people who have explored the spirit World have a much more flexible idea about reincarnation than sources that haven't explored the spirit World. Don't worry about being a soul who isn't old enough to obtain what you hope to obtain. You're interest is the key. Get ready for some surprises. People often find out that their spiritual progression doesn't work out like they expected it to work out.

HERE AGAIN IS A QUESTION I HAVE. PERHAPS IT ISN'T THE ACTUAL EXPLORATION THAT MAKES US MORE FLEXIBLE, BUT THAT WE ARE ALREADY PREDETERMINED FOR FLEXIBILITY BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE INNATE DESIRE TO EXPLORE. IF ONE IS A HAMMER, THE WORLD IS NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF NAILS. IF ONE IS A CARPENTER, THEN THE HAMMER IS BUT ONE TOOL TO SEE THE WORLD OTHER THAN THE WORLD BEING A BUNCH OF NAILS. WHAT IS IT THAT CAUSES US TO BE SO OPEN? ARE WE INNATELY BORN WITH THIS OPENNESS?

Albert

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #26 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 6:13pm

Ronnie:

It sounds like you're willing to question sources. I believe this is a good thing. Even though I believe that Robert Monroe was an honest man and believe that Bruce Moen is an honest man, I can't say for certain that everything they say is true. Until I experience something for myself, I don't know. This said, there are a number of things that Robert and Bruce have found that I also found. I must add that their explorations are more extensive than my explorations.

Regarding Bruce and I not finding the exact same thing about reincarnation, I've found that even though you can find that certain sources are false by considering the contradictions, this isn't always the case. Sometimes genuine sources contradict each other. I believe this is because our higher self/spirit guidance often helps us have experiences, and beings who represent the light understand that different people require different information.

Consider near death experiences. Even though they have a lot of similarities, they aren't always the same. One explanation is that people experience as much truth as they allow themselves to experience. If they have a fundamentalist mind set, their NDE might take on such a form. I believe this way of thinking applies to what they can open up to during an experience, and what they can assimilate after an experience is over. I also believe it is a matter of NDE people being spiritual messangers, and different people need to receive different kinds of messages.

There are fundamentalists who believe that NDEs are created by satan. They'll only accept an NDE that is Biblical in nature. Some NDEs such as Howard Storm's NDE might serve the purpose of providing a message that has ingredients that a fundamentalist will approve of, yet it also has a love message. If a fundamentalist gets inspired by the love message enough, he or she might open up to considering other NDEs and sources of information that have an even bigger love message and that are less fundamentalist in nature.

I figure Bruce and I received differing information about reincarnation not because one or both of us experienced a projection of our imagination, but because for some reason it was determined that it would be best for us to be provided with differing information. There could be factors in play that beings from the spirit World are well aware of that we aren't aware of. Whatever the case, It doesn't seem as if either of us think of reincarnation in a restrictive sense. We both believe that there is a lot of flexability according to need and want.

Regarding love, I believe love is a state of being where you love everybody else unconditionally. The most wonderful level of happiness is experienced when you open up to love at this level. Factors such as old hurts, pent up anger, prejudices, fears and limiting beliefs prevent us from experiencing love to a significant degree. The more we let go of such things, the more we are able to naturally live according to love. I believe it becomes easier to do so when we move on to the spirit World due to varying energetic parameters. This doesn't mean that our limiting beliefs and emotional attachments automatically go away.

Back to top

IP Logged

recoverer

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 5027
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #27 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 6:27pm

A late P.S.

Regarding the possibility of schizophrenia, each person needs to monitor his or her experiences in an honest way in order to find out if this is what is taking place.

In my case, even though there was information I received through spiritual means that I was able to confirm, the key for me was making contact with my higher self/spirit guidance in a manner where it became clear that I am in contact with beings who represent the light. This is due to the kind of experiences I have had and the nature of the messages I have received, and how much making contact with spirit guidance has helped me. If you find that physical problems and mental limitations go away and that it becomes easier to live according to happiness, peace, love and an inner way of knowing, it becomes really hard to doubt that you are dealing with something that is a part of divine truth.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Nov 5^th, 2008 at 8:55pm by recoverer »

IP Logged

spooky2

Super Member

Offline

Afterlife Knowledge Member

Posts: 2368

Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ...
Reply #28 - Nov 5^th, 2008 at 9:18pm

Ronny, about your thought Monroes system could be his own belief system, and those explorers just follow his suggestions: It could be true. But there's an important add to make. In my explorations, your thought was mine, too. And it didn't stop me. So, what I came up with was, it doesn't matter so much if these focus levels are really this way accurately divisible, or if Focus27 is a re-built human environment to become familiar to the nonphysical when you're just made the transition, or if retrievals are actually about ex-physical people who are stuck. The important thing is, yes, this system may be a made-up reality, a belief system, but the ultimate truth beyond that, as far as I found out, is that every reality is made up, and that every reality takes place within a frame which is provided by someone/something greater than we are, up to where we re-merge with the all-that-is. This way, there are systems which after a short distance will keep you caught within a dead end. And then there are those systems which obviously are producing remarkable results, matching with a lot of things of our psychologic-physical reality and provide us with tremendous outlooks. We are constantly building our reality, and there are major persons in this, such as RAM and Bruce, and minor, not so well-known persons in this, such as you and me.

Spooky

Back to top

"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"

IP Logged

pedigree Junior Member Offline Posts: 87	Re: Newbie Here Wishes to Acquire More Knowledge ... Reply #29 - Nov 6^th, 2008 at 7:43am http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1210038473 Listen to these and go and buy his book
Back to top	IP Logged