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What is God? (Read 19489 times)

Alan McDougall

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Re: What is God?
Reply #15 - Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 10:26am

Don, and others,

The forum program is playing up, not showing all posts

All of you have made very valid and interesting comments and maybe each of you might be correct. God after all is a God of a thousand billion facets, like a great beautiful eternal crystal diamond pervading infinite existence and reality unknown to us

Don
What you have posted is interesting but remains in the domain of speculation. You state Yahweh means (The one who causes to be)but the correct translation/interpretation from Hebrew into English is "Ever Existing one"

Don you know that saying Yahweh means that is simple wrong.

Now how can you state that he who exists forever does not exist? If he vanished so would all existence

Then you try to separate God from creation and the universe and at the same time hint that he is Omni All. A contradiction in terms.

The best English words that I have to describe God is the inexplicable, Sublime Great Inscrutable Ever Existing One .

That he might separate part of his being to create, the universe and humanity makes a lot of sense to me.

Thus we are all created out of God stuff,

But we must know that a multidimensional Infinite mind is beyond the grasp of three dimensional mortal humanity, indeed inscrutable until he teaches us deeper realities, maybe in this life but definitely in the life to come

“When we see him then we will be like him” “The pure in heart shall see God”

So God can make himself observable to us and at the same time embrace all of creation indeed the whole of Existence

Regards

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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tgecks Senior Member Offline Posts: 315 Dahlonega, Georgia Gender:	Re: What is God? Reply #16 - Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 10:38am God is all there is. All of it, the coming and the going, the light and the dark, the physical and the metaphysical. All of it. Thomas
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Alan McDougall

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Re: What is God?
Reply #17 - Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 7:46pm

Sonia dear,

Your post below and my reponse to it

Quote:

I would like to share with you and the others some personal views I have on God.

First of all, I do not see God as a Supreme Being. If he thought of himself as Supreme, I think he would be arrogant.

I believe God is the most evolved soul existing in the entire universe. I think he masters PUL, knowledge and feeling, beyond our wildest imagination.

I believe he is made basically out of the same energy as we are, but, if we could know ourselves as well as we should and be 100% alined with our natural way of Being, and keep this state stable, I think we'ld be a lot closer to God.

I think God is the Soul that has found the best way to be and that he is still learning with us, through us, to be even better at what he is. I believe he does not need to incarnate in a (earth)life or get involved in somebody else's life to experience and learn.

I believe God has found a way so that he does not need the duality of earth-life system to be more loving, to give more PUL.

I think we have everything to learn from him, but I think we should realize that there is a fundamental difference between: knowing through knowledge and wisdom AND knowing through experience of self.

God could certainly give us all knowledge, if we chose to, BUT to understand that knowledge, we still need to experience "these feelings" ourselves. I believe that this is the entire goal of the earth-life system.

Through experience, we learn what works on this planet (which is qualified as good) and what does not work (which is qualified as evil). Through experience, we learn to be more loving or how to avoid to be less loving.

I believe God thought of this system, and from these thoughts life evolved to what we now know as earth-life. Then we selected a life we were curious to experience.

This is only my personal opinion, of course.

I hope it helps you, somehow.

Much love

,

Sonia dear

I also can’t see God as some arrogant Supreme Sovereign being needing us to praise and sing to him day and night. Why must we constantly assure God that he is the greatest thing ever, He does not need his ego stroked and he simple knows he is what he is without pride coming into the equation

I really like your post and take about what God is to you. I often say ones God is the God of their understanding and your belief about him/her is beautiful indeed

God could give us all knowledge just as you stated but he will not do so until he is sure we can handle it correctly, don’t you agree?

And you make a very valid point about God evolving. As the creator he must be evolving with his creation

Like I stated in my reply to Don , we are made from "GODSTUFF" but separated as sentient beings who love and adore him as mother and father of everything

God to me is the primordial mind, the Fist Thinker he that perceives and creates

Much love

Thank you for a nice well thought out response

Love

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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Alan McDougall

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Re: What is God?
Reply #18 - Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 8:13pm

Dear Blink

Thank you for your comments I agree and can not add to your wisdom

Love

Alan

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Quote:

Existence started out with one being, call this being God if you like. This being was made up of a mixture of awareness, the ability to learn and think, and the energy with which it creates. Eventually--which probably didn't take a long time because this being was infinite in nature and time didn't exist--this being figured out how to use its energy to create many other beings. Since nothing but this being existed, it used its own being to create everything including all of us. Therefore, we are all extensions of this one being.

(Alan) Yes I agree again as I said to Sonia God is the Primordial Mind or awareness and the First Thought . We have just different wording

Spooky
Quote:

This would only be so when there already had been a sort of independent matter which had not been created by God. If God had created really everything, than there simply would be no source of independence left

(Alan) Then Spooky if you are correct were did matter and energy come from. How were the fundamental constants formulated and by whom.

If you are correct and maybe indeed you are we are stuck with infinite regression with matter energy and God . Maybe then given infinite eternity God evolved out of this primordial matter energy something like the evolution of life on earth

Don.,

(Alan) I concur with your second post directed at Spooky, "very thought provoking"

Petrus

(Alan) While God is energy and the source of energy like you stated, he is an intelligent energy unlike the energy common to the universe. This eternal non –created energy is what we call spirit "GOD IS A SPIRIT"

I will respond to the other posts in due course

Regards

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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spooky2

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Re: What is God?
Reply #19 - Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 9:26pm

Alan wrote:
Quote:

Spooky
Quote:
This would only be so when there already had been a sort of independent matter which had not been created by God. If God had created really everything, than there simply would be no source of independence left

(Alan) Then Spooky if you are correct were did matter and energy come from. How were the fundamental constants formulated and by whom.

This is not my opinion. It was a "If this, then that" relation. Indeed, when something can't arise from nothing, there must have been something before, and this is iterated ad infinitum. I don't expect the old riddle of "Was there a beginning?" will be solved here in the physical. At least not in language based thinking.

Spooky

"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"

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Alan McDougall

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Re: What is God?
Reply #20 - Sep 3^rd, 2008 at 11:44pm

Spooky,

Your post
Quote:

(Alan) If there were no beginning the arrow of time would be pushed back into infinite eternity and we could never have arrived at the present moment in our universe.

Something like an athletic race with the start line backed into infinity, they then could never make any progress to anywhere or anywhen could they?.

To me this indicates that the universe is not static but finite, with a beginning and an end in the unimaginably distant future.

So the big bang theory of creation remains as good a one any to me and this theory needs a creator. There was something before it , however, Existence which I equate to God. There is no such state as nothingness.

When Stephen Hawking postulated that the universe might be eternal with no beginning his first wife an ardent Christian became very annoyed with him and it is believed this lead to their divorce. He has altered course since then and has suggested that the big bang is correct with a few minor suggestion or differences to the theory

His now well known words "when we formulate the Theory Of Everything, then indeed we will now the mind of GOD"

T.O.E

Regards

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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Alan McDougall

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Re: What is God?
Reply #21 - Sep 4^th, 2008 at 6:52am

Now to finite little me for an infinite being like God to torment my by burning me in molten sulfur day and night forever and ever is a little harsh don’t you think?

I am only able to commit a puny finite sin against this huge colossal infinite being and due to this finite sin, I read in the Bible and her from fundamentalist that I will be given an infinite punishment in Hell.

Of course if I change my evil ways and conform then I will go to heaven, even though I remain guilty of my transgression

I wonder it even the worst psychopath would do that to me. So I allow myself to question the logic of the Bible.

If the writer of the Book of Revelation was examined by a psychiatrist today, sprouting, locust with fiery stings in they tails, horses racing across sting people but not allowing them to die, the world bringing doom, angels pouring out veils of blood, great beasts and dragons killing and eating people.

Heck!! heck!! people he would be put on antipsychotic medicine, given shock treatment, confined for life to a mental faculty and that would be the last of him

But no people dig, search, interpret and try to understand the science fiction like visions of fantasy in the Book of Revelations written 2000 years ago by a possibly very sick first century man living alone in a cave.

Why God does not speak and convey exactly in human terms what he means, but supposedly hiding it in poetry language and unconceivable incomprehensible visions, continues to perplex and it just makes no sense to me.

But I acknowledge I could be wrong so I pray to god if there is a god to save my soul if I have a soul

Just kidding guys a little deep sarcasm by a person who has been around the block a few too times.

My problem is the Bible and how the Bible was written and by whom. And the countless different interpretation, over a hundred different translation in the English language alone.

But God as I perceive him is warm, loving, kind and forgiving but we must have deep respect for him because like. I previously stated he/she is not some weak grey haired granny or grandpa

God is light in which there is no darkness whatsoever. So existence is divided into light and dark realms and we are free to choose to which we would like to inhabit when we die

"My problem is with the Bible not Almighty God"

Regards,

Alan

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Alan McDougall

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Lights of Love

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Re: What is God?
Reply #22 - Sep 4^th, 2008 at 7:47am

Hi Alan,

A few months ago I came across a T.O.E. that seemed similar to a thread Dave started a while back where the two of you were discussing primordial consciousness containing entropy and also what you seem to be saying here.

In a nutshell, primordial consciousness or God as we call it is not infinite, but only seems to tiny, little us that it is infinite. This system of consciousness we call God could even be a part of a much larger system that we couldn’t possibly imagine. Anyway this God Consciousness contains entropy and through evolution it decreases entropy although increasing entropy is entirely possible therefore free will evolved. Time/vibration also evolved out of this consciousness as well as us, values, etc., which continues to evolve as we make progress in becoming more loving and thereby reducing not only our own entropy, but also that of the whole.

Here’s a link if you’re interested. http://www.my-big-toe.com

Kathy

Tread softly through life with a tender heart and a gentle, understanding spirit.

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Alan McDougall

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Re: What is God?
Reply #23 - Sep 4^th, 2008 at 8:18am

Light of light,

Your quote

Quote:

In a nutshell, primordial consciousness or God as we call it is not infinite, but only seems to tiny, little us that it is infinite. This system of consciousness we call God could even be a part of a much larger system that we couldn’t possibly imagine. Anyway this God Consciousness contains entropy and through evolution it decreases entropy although increasing entropy is entirely possible therefore free will evolved. Time/vibration also evolved out of this consciousness as well as us, values, etc., which continues to evolve as we make progress in becoming more loving and thereby reducing not only our own entropy, but also that of the whole.

I can see by your post that you are informed in the arena of physics and science.

It is true that if God is made out of the same energy that drives and sustains the universe then he just like all energy and matter is subject to the relentless flow of entropy. If this is true then he is not infinite and must be dissipating his life energy into some huge heat sink. Maybe that is why the Bible stated that God in light and in him is no darkness what so ever

You possibly read my take about God not being constructed out of the same energy of the universe but some non-energetic pure light . that strange thing referred to as SPIRIT

Of course just like you stated, from my present very finite vantage point I cannot know the truth about what is now simply beyond human comprehension.

"You know physicist hate the concept of infinity" It is an misnomer a paradox inside an enigma an oxymorom. Something that must be but at the same time simply cant be. An impossible possibilty if you get my drift

Love

Alan

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Berserk2

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Re: What is God?
Reply #24 - Sep 4^th, 2008 at 7:53pm

[Alan:] "The correct translation..from Hebrew into English is "Ever existing One." Don, you know that saying Yahweh meas that is simply wrong."

Amusing presumption, given that I know Hebrew and you do not.
I will merely quote one of the standard texts in the field: Dr. Bernhard Anderson, "Understanding the Old Testament," 4th edition, p. 62.
"The divine name Yahweh was based on the causative form of the verb "to be," namely, `He causes to be...' This interpretation involves no change in the Hebrew consonants of the verbs in Exodus 3:14:"

"God said to Moses: `I am who I am [or better: "I will be what I will be"]. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: `I Am' has sent me to you."

[Alan:] "I can't see God as some arrogant Supreme Sovereign being needing us to praise and sing to him day and night...He does not need his ego stroked."
_______________

Alan, again you impose YOUR crude caricature of God on the Bible. The Bible never claims that God has any needs or an ego. On the contrary, the Bible repeatedly warns against he danger of anthropomorphizing God: e. g.

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are above the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9)."

"Worship" is just another term for "love." If God is love and love is relational, then surely we need to worship [love] God. The need is ours, not God's. Some people think a mystical relationship with God is one of life's most important goals.

You need to learn your linguistic limitations. In another thread, your lack of knowledge of Hebrew also induces you to misread Judges 1:19:
"Yahweh was with Judah; and [Your error occurs in this gap.] drove out the inhabitants of the hill country; but he could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley because they had chariots of iron."

To this Alan objects: "So Almighty God was defeated by a tribe because they had chariots of iron?" No, Alan, you omit the pronoun subject of the verb "drove out" and overlook the fact that in Hebrew "he" [Judah, not God] is the subject of "drove out." Judah wins and loses a battle. God is with Judah, but doesn't fight their battles for them here. On this point check any number of modern translations: e. g. the New Internatinal Version:

"The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hilll country, but they wre unable to drive the people out from the hill country, because they had iron chariots (Judges 1:19)."

Hawkeye and Thomas [tgecks]: Offering no justification, you both merely pontificate the standard New Age view of God that I refute in replies 4 and 6! How do you imagine that your posts are helpful to anyone? Can you say, "New Age Fundamentalist?" I'll retract that inference only if you reply point by point to my refutations.

Don

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Re: What is God?
Reply #25 - Sep 4^th, 2008 at 8:22pm

Don:

If as you seem to be suggesting, everything that exists didn't come from God's own being, where did it come from? Did God look to a source other than his own being when he looked for the consciousness and energy to create other beings? Just because Souls get confused for a while as they figure things out, this doesn't mean that they aren't inately divine.

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Berserk2

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Re: What is God?
Reply #26 - Sep 4^th, 2008 at 9:34pm

Albert,

Those who insist that God is All That Is need to make this claim meaningful by explaining how a dualistic universe might differ from this view in a concrete way. As the Ground of all Being rather than a particular being, God is still the source or creator. The view that God is All That Is remains true unless the universe or free sentient beings can function independently of God's micro-management. If there is neither free will nor any action of the universe that God's laws do not completely control, then the claim that something is Not God seems to be trivially semantic. But then love and character have no moral value and there is no right and wrong in any meaningful sense. We are nothing but robots exercising God's will.

Don

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Alan McDougall

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Re: What is God?
Reply #27 - Sep 5^th, 2008 at 5:46am

Don

[quot Code:

e]Amusing presumption, given that I know Hebrew and you do not.  
I will merely quote one of the standard texts in the field: Dr. Bernhard Anderson, "Understanding the Old Testament," 4th edition, p. 62.
"The divine name Yahweh was based on the causative form of the verb "to be," namely, `He causes to be...'  This interpretation involves no change in the Hebrew consonants of the verbs in Exodus 3:14

[/quote]

Your arrogant patronization of me and others are not well received and your blatant assumption that I do not know Hebrew like you do borders on the offensive, especially from a "so called man of god'

Gods "I AM" statement to Moses at the burring bush equated to “one who exists”. "But in your first post on this thread you said “he does not exist" Now that is amusing really amusing unlike my statement, ask the forum if Ever Existing One does not equate to "I am".

Remember the famous statement of Descartes, “I think therefore "I AM”. This was to prove to himself using logic that “INDEED HE EXISTED”

Now all this singing and praising of god with loud voices and instruments in church. Is it really really accompanied with a deep felt love for God respect and commitment for his awesome Divinity? No most of them are just taking pride in how beautiful they sing, it is all about competition. Like Bruce Moen, I have searched for God and meaning in many Christian denominations at one stage became a rapid fundamentalist condemning the rest of humanity to hell, with some glee I might add.

But that is a long long time ago and thank God with these grey hairs of wisdom I now know God loves all of humanity, not just a select few. Indeed I have reached the position of despising exclusivity in all its bizarre forms

I am futhure along the path of life than you, possible more educated in many fields outside your particular specialty and have been around the block many many times,

I have stood in many churched, some full of love and warmth, others just loud noise and madness. The TV evangelist shouting at the world frequently stealing money from the innocent makes my stomach turn.

You just like the rest of us you know almost absolutely nothing about this Infinite Entity we gave the title God. To assume you do is to fall into the trap of being puffed up with knowledge and making unpleasant hurtful comments to those like me , who you wrongly assume know less than you.

Alan

« Last Edit: Sep 5^th, 2008 at 12:16pm by Alan McDougall »

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Alan McDougall

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Alan McDougall

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Re: What is God?
Reply #28 - Sep 5^th, 2008 at 11:53am

Here is an non-religious essay I wrote some time ago, trying put myself into the mind of God way back before existence as we know it.

This is how I peceive God

Thought and awareness came in the darkest place I was alone lonely beyond comprehension. Then before the first moment had happened I searched for words and found them. I said I must create existence beyond myself and make living companions

Aware of infinite potential in vast unploughed fields of dark nothing, I strode with great beams of cosmic light toward the infinite horizon of eternity, sowing seeds of existence before the timeless moment of creation. I am the boundless Mind, Original Self-Awareness the cause of everything, relative to nothing I am This.

On the panorama of bleak blackness, I rode on the back of the Absolute, sowing universal energy. Reality was my aim and the beauty of my achievement. Illuminating the darkness with beams of dazzling radiant glory was the first event of reason. I formulated in my mind the first number and called it “One”, I am the ocean into which all things return

With the now realities of the fundamentals of’ “one, and ‘zero”, I made everything. I am the Prime Mover and there was no proponent to my First Cause. I am the Immovable Rock and the Alpha point. I took these first numbers and weaved them into the fabric of the reality, creating all the limitless universes on the infinite timeless foam of nothing, which now makes all up existence. Indeed, I am the Almighty One. If you are, wise. “Do one thing,repect me for "I AM God"

I am the painter and the painting, singer and the song, the dance and the dancer, the stage and the actors, the writer of the script of existence. I am all these things who am I? I am Ultimate-All the Absolute Totally of all existence, yes, I am This, and do you exist? Then why cant to I exist?

The imprudent ask where you are, the wind blows on your cheek and you ask ‘where are you? The oceans roar and you ask,’ ‘where are you? The stars glow and you say mysterious one, ‘if you would only show yourself, blood flows in your vessels and you say ‘what are you? Indeed, I am the First Cause and the Immovable Rock.

I am the encompasser and enfold all things within the substance of my being. Resonating with profound unfathomable vibrations, creation trembles at the passing of my presence.

I am the stalker of the soul, the defeater of death. I am supreme and take the abstract, and convert it into concrete matter.

I dwell in composite bright light, which is the breath of my life. I now look with delight upon the beauty of the garden of my creation, sparkling out of the darkness of infinite universes. In eternal joy, I survey my prime creation and called it life.

I am well pleased with my endeavors and set the clock of time to run for eternity.

I am the winder of the watch of creation. ‘I Am He,
“I AM GOD”

Composed By Alan McDougall (27/6/2007)

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Alan McDougall

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Alan McDougall Super Member Offline Posts: 2104 South Africa Gender:	Re: What is God? Reply #29 - Sep 5^th, 2008 at 12:08pm Don, 1Coriinthians 28, And when all things are subdued to him, Then will the Son also be subject to him so that God will be "ALL IN ALL". Therefore, dear Don, even the New Testament tells us that God is" ALL IN ALL" Alan
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