I doubt that people who believe in a particular religion in a rigid way believe in belief systems, therefore, they aren't thinking of entrapping people in their belief system. Rather, they believe there is their kind of heaven, perhaps some sort of purgatory realm, and perhaps some sort of hell.

It's a good thing that we'll all have suprises when we go to the spirit World in varying degrees, because we often aren't very good at figuring things out while here.

I believe a day will come when this World will have access to the spirit World to an extent, where it won't be necessary to have the various belief systems we have down here. Instead it'll be about living according to love, without all the dogma.

When we point our fingers at others, we really point them at ourselves....at least, that's how I see it.

I have to ask myself, if I want to be a "helper" of any kind, what is the first thing to notice about a situation?

1) Okay, I have identified myself as a helper.

What is the second thing?

2) Does this person really need help? I know I have made an initial assessment, that there is a need here.

What is the third thing?

3) Am I the person to do this thing? I know I am a helper, but am I going to provide what this person needs? Is there anyone here who might be even more effective than me?

What is the fourth thing?

4) How can I do this thing, if I am the one to do it, without doing more harm, if I am actually seeing this thing clearly?

What is the fifth thing?

Well, maybe it's time. What is the indicator that I am the one to do this thing? Just because I am here? All I have is me. My resources. The resources given me as I make my way through this life.

I'll just give it a try. Surely there are invisible helpers here, even if I can't see them.
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Isn't this the way we do it?

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So, what were the results? Was there a healing? Was the presentation effective? If I am a helper, I will definitely want to look at the results. Am I effective? How do I judge that? How do we judge the "quality" of the interaction? How do we judge the "quality" of the intention, the action, the outcome?

Maybe I'll do better next time.

Don't we say that a lot? Maybe I'll do even better next time. Then, let it go.

I think that many well-intentioned people are simply very vigilant, and sometimes overly so at times. It doesn't really confine itself to religion or any particular subject. Not that I can tell.

What is "too much" in one situation may be "just right" in another.

But kindness....yes, we can never have too much of that.
Or laughter.
Or forgiveness.
Or understanding.
Or love.
Or freedom.

Certainly, we were given voices for a reason, and we can even shout if we need to do so.

We can shout or we can whisper. Are our words effective? Perhaps many of us in this world don't actually look at that very often. In a busy, information-filled world it is sometimes difficult to know where to shoot that "love arrow" so that it will hit the mark.

Practice, practice.         love, blink

Joe said, Quote:



Hi Joe,

It is the "catch-22" of the physical.
While here, we must use the finite in order to percieve/identify the infinite.
There are varying "programs" (or games as you say) all using different approaches to this activity that are all manifestations of human and divine co-creation.

People will be attracted to any "program" according to their specific requirements, receptivity and capacity. Religion is therefore not an evil conspiracy, but simply that which was once, or still is for many, the best "program" or solution for human progress at some point in the general evolution according to the demands of collective and/or individual need. I no longer use training wheels on my bike for instance, but that does not mean that they are "crap" for others who need them to learn how to ride a bike. People give up old useless ideas when they are ready to, and the process that leads to this can't be forced, nor does it need to be criticized because others have already moved on. If the use of training wheels means not being able to go as fast (including stuck in BST's), eventually this will be discovered and dealt with when there is a necessity to do so.

This activity when successful, is the movement of consciousness in transcending form, while at the same time using it (form) to do so. Progress is characterized as the increasingly continuous enactment of this activity. People, as a consequence of being immersed in form,  begin to mistake the form that is used for the activity, for the movement itself, and get "stuck". This "getting stuck" can even happen within the highest levels of attainment in ways commensurate with those levels.

The soul as individual portion of the undifferentiated divine has more or less ultimate responsibility for the progress of its 'charge' and will in due course send "it" (the being) on its way to "where" it needs to go, to give it the experiences it needs to have to accomplish this activity. This is in the very nature of the soul as it is always permanently aware of its true Identity regardless of temporary form, and wants to complete the full identification through all the parts of the being (out of oneness) - that are not Aware because presently identified with form, including as presented by the use of a religion leading to BST's for instance.

"Those people" may not as you say, think of those regions as being hell but then again we do not think of Earth as being stuck in hell either.  By some definitions, a "hell" is any "region" where beings are not 100% identified with God. Afterall, what is it that is "entrapping" us anywhere? The soul is patient and allows for these explorations as different degrees of form identification are transcended - even aquiescing to perhaps "less progressive" explorations, in the interest of free will, oneness and thoroughness of experience.

One more item for consideration. There may be any number of so-called "Christian BST's" for example, of description and variation that may have little or less to do with an actual "Christ Consciousness Terrain" - as these BST's have been formed by human conception. Masters of the highest order, like Christ, Krishna, etc., are said to each have their own "loka(s)", where their devotees (as qualified by those Masters) reside when not in manifestation on the physical plane.


- u

Rog-B:

I don't have any personal experience with Jehova Withnesses.

I know lady who was a member up to the age of 23, and she thought the group was a cult.

I have an aunt who is Catholic. After her husband died Jehova Witnesses visited with her for a couple of years. She said they weren't influencing her, but then she started to say things such as, "After you die, you go to sleep for a while until Christ comes. After he comes, you come back to this World which has been transformed into paradise, rather than to the World of spirit." I told her that after you die, whatever you do, try to find the light. Look for Uncle Jack (her deceased husband).  She asked the Jehova Witness people who visited with her if upon her death they would attend her funeral services at her Catholic Church, and they said they wouldn't at first. One eventually said that she would. Eventually she stopped having them visit, but it still seems as if she has some of their ideas.

Regarding hollow heavens, I don't believe they exist to the extent people sometimes believe. There are numerous near death experiences where people with dogmatic thoughts were able to have an experience that lacked dogmatism. I believe it is more a matter of how much a spirit is able to open to love. If a spirit's belief system prevents it from opening to love, it might have to go through a growing process.

I guess Hell would be a heaven if you believed in Satanism.

I have never done a religious person recovery. Perhaps that is why I have some confusion on the matter. Also I must point out that F27 is not heaven. Its just a holding area also. An area for recovery and healing. A place to make choices. See, and in some cases, be seen. Help and receive help. Come back, move on... Learn ,teach
Personally, I think religions are in the game of entrapment. Please don't be confused by my words. Organised religions can do much good works and things. But you also have the other side of them. Control of people and ideas. Like the mentioned JWs. Some of who would rather see their children lose their life instead of allowing them to have a blood transfusion, for instance. My earthly emotions make me see that as murder and uncaring. A little hell on earth. Funny what people think are going to get them into their heavens. But of course there are always others. People  are indocternated with many different beliefs. Even as many of us are here who visit this sight. Will our hell be a place of nothing and not continuing to be/exist? Our heaven... never-ending awareness? Just what are these concepts of heaven and hell anyways.  Ridged beliefs entrap. It most likely makes no difference if you believe in on religion or the next. When your mind is fixed and unmoving, is that not a hell in itself. If you only believe in the Monroe concept then is not that a sort of hell also? (As I have been reminded to say, Bob would have never said that his way was the only way. Its only one way of looking at things. That you must decide what is and what is not. This allows movement.) Where as religion allows little movement from specific indoctrination. Do this, say this, pray this way or surly you will go to hell. I will pick my knowingness over their fixed heavens (and hells) any time.  

Albert-

You said "If a spirit's belief system prevents it from opening to love, it might have to go through a growing process."

Yes, but what about those people who are sociopaths?  It's really not a belief system, it's the way their brain is wired (or mis-wired).

These people have absolutely no remorse about what they do.  They can, and do, kill other people as casually as you or I might swat a fly.

When they die, do they then become enlightened? Would a life review be of any value?  In fact, a life review showing them the fear their victims felt while they were being killed might even give them satisfaction.

Hi Lucy-

Actually if we are not the same person after we die, the whole purpose of the life review as a learning tool would lose its punch.  After all, what good would it be to show us how our words and actions hurt others if we don't identify those things with ourselves?

I think Newton did address these concerns, but inadequately in my opinion. His clients told him that before a soul is allowed to incarnate, helpers make sure that he or she carries an appropriate amount of energy to cope with whatever challenges are set up.  Too much energy can be as negative as too little.  However, that doesn't really explain how a person can become a true sociopath which, from all I've read, is about as close to pure evil as you can imagine.  Think Charlie Manson.

Yes, I've been on Bruce's board from almost its beginning in the 90s. 

I vaguely recall Ginny years ago talking about trying to do a retrieval in a room full of people who could not or would not accept that they were still alive.  It was a huge challenge and as I recall she had great difficulty in reaching them.