Good Day All , if our journey on the physical plane is to learn and experience new things but ultimately our aim is to progress back to the Source , The One , God and to enjoy the splendors in the Spiritual planes.

How does one know if he/she has progressed within a life time. Does a woman who sells her body to survive progress less than another woman who sells her self for material gain. Does a person who runs a business and creates employment for many others but pays the staff poorly so he can have more progress less than another man who operates a business and is fair. Does a person who treats his clients with respect and trust progress less than a person who takes a person to court over none payments easily.Does a father who works every day for his family and enjoys a few beers on the weekends progress less than a man who works for the Red Cross Similar situations with different outcomes.

How does one progress more spiritual in a world full of hate , deceit , corruption and many other of the man made problems that have been facing man since the dawn of time. Lets face a number of facts here that the human race is not a very nice race.

My problem is this I run a small business and treat customers fairly look at there situation from a compassionate point of view , i believe that I'm doing the right thing but the right thing spiritually is not necessary the right thing to do in a physical world when one needs certain  things to survive - I listen to all there problems and lies but none listen to mine.

How does one know if one is advancing spiritually when faced every day with so much on the physical. Does a clear conscience mean I am better than those guys with no-conscience. Why is it that if you are nice and compassionate do people call you weak.

I know that it sounds that I'm stuck on my soap box but the one thing that I like to know is at the end of my 3 score and ten that I have progressed enough spiritually.

Thanks Alan and if i had to pass on tomorrow i would be happy with my life or oil painting has you put it. Its just very difficult to grow spiritually when faced with every day issues from other people. And quite frankly my life compared to most of this worlds is a piece of cake. I take every day has an adventure and new challenges await of which ill be ready and hopefully do the right thing while not feeling to guilty about the outcome.

I think too Reach that as Bets says that judging yourself is not a good idea - at least not judging in the sense of self blame.

That's not to say that we should drop knowing or discrimination. That's using that word in the sense of distinguishing between what's wise and compassionate from what's not. But having done so we move on with none of the beating up on ourselves that is implicitly (and even explicitly) taught by Western institutional religion and the resulting culture.

It's probably not a good idea to get too focused on where we are on any so called spiritual path either - we can never know for sure. Drop a single major if terrible sounding delusion and 'bam', you could be there. On the other hand a person living an apparently OK life, but subject to a myriad of smaller delusions may need lifetimes to sort them out.

Our task seems to be to cultivate the ability to be easy with whatever 'is'. To stop projecting our fears, beliefs and so on on to life and ourselves.

The starting point for all spiritual work must be simply to accept and be what we are. We're not required to do more than to live in the 'now'. Most of all we 're not required and it's not helpful to exist in a cloud of guilt and self loathing. (on which subject Eckhardt Tolle is well worth a read - he sheds lots of light on what this means)

It starts with the development of some compassion for ourselves, and others - coupled with a working trust in the basic goodness of of ourselves, others and the world. If we can even occasionally manage this it allows the dropping of so much striving.

For myself a part of this trust is the knowledge (doesn't stop me giving out yards at times and getting sucked into and lost in my whinge mode) that what's happening right now, this minute cannot be anything other than exactly what's meant to happen.

To very loosely extract the gist of one message from an NDE (that of Mellen Thomas Benedict): 'nuclear weaponry is one major demonstration of man' drive to place himself in situations requiring the most remarkable leaps in growth - that one development alone has (in order to avoid certain destruction) been responsible for a historically unprecedented raising of global consciousness'.

Sounds like we're in luck then, what with global warming, the energy crisis, over population, damage to the environment etc.

We don't of course normally see this because our fear of personal destruction blinds us to the big picture - but the point is that we sometimes don't see what's really going down. Seen in this light Hitler perhaps did humanity a very big favour.

None of this means that loving or compassionate behaviours involve sleepwalking through life, and allowing others to trample on us. We may chose in order to allow another to learn a lesson to be taken advantage of on occasion, and we shouldn't be trying to take advantage of others. But there's nothing that requires us to routinely suffer what inhibits our own growth, especially when it's not delivering anything  by way of growth for the other. It may even be appropriate for us to act in quite a tough manner to help another - 'tough love' so to speak.

The same applies in how we view ourselves - we can be tolerant of errors, but should not use some witless blanket of ersatz self compassion to justify what we know is wrong.

The point ultimately is that wisdom must be mixed through our compassion - there's no requirement to be a doormat. 'Idiot compassion' was the term used by Chogyam Trungpa  - a Buddhist teacher who wrote extensively on the topic. Pema Chodron is another in the same space.



    This by the way is possibly as graphic a demonstration as there is of the role of the ego in spiritual development. We may well be on a road to dropping the delusion of selfhood, but it seems to have a role to play in bringing us to that point. To be a self resolving issue!

Hallo All.

Musing along these lines, I remember reading somewhere, sometime, perhaps in a piece on reincarnation (I'm not sure), that those in humble walks or positions in life are the "old souls" - they've "been there, done that", and are now on their last runs. So, in terms of their spiritual development, they're very advanced, in terms of the Big Picture. Those who are the "movers and shakers" - political leaders, big-wigs in general - amongst mankind, are the relative newbies, still with a long way to go, and many more "runs". Presumably, in TMI-speak, this means their "I-There's" are still small? They, of course, may argue that such a view is merely an excuse for under-achievement. The key point, I suppose, is: achievement of what...

Is this what JC meant by, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth" ? Or is it possible for a big-wig also to be meek?

Best wishes,

Alfred

Hi Reach,

People have said some very helpful things here, imo. I would like to add some things that I have heard, read and tried to apply in my own life as I have encountered some of the same questions you speak of. Whether any of the following is useful is entirely up to your own determination as what works for me is no absolute by any means - and that is a certain fact.  

First, everyone has a different role to play and a different standard to apply, and it is not for us as individuals to know what this means for others' lives, even perhaps including our own 'other lives'. We could speculate endlessly on why we find ourselves in certain situations - ignorance?, karma?, free will?, is it something I did 5, 25 lives ago?, - the list is endless, and may not offer much practical relief even if we knew some of the details, because there is then still the question 'what to do now - this minute?'. To approach these issues on a purely rational basis with an moral/ethical standard is difficult also, because much of life is simply not rational, nor is rational ethics the highest value in response to the non-rational, imo. - makes things possibly more confusing because we simply do not know 'why' many things present themselves as they do.

God may want some soul to play the role of a mosquito and God may want another soul to play the role of a whale. Do you think that when the mosquito dies God is going to examine its soul and say "You failed because you weren't a gigantic swimming mammal, eating tons of fish every day", or, "Whale - you failed because you weren't biting people on land and sucking their blood, making them itch"? I doubt it. God is having a unique experience through each. Same with us. Everyone is completely unique with different history, temperament, possibilities, and goals to accomplish. Like others have said it is a very serious and debilitating pitfall to compare oneself to others - a waste of time, especially when having entered on a spiritual path, because one's subjective identity has to be widened, deepened, and heightened  according to a very specific internal individual necessity and Response, and that has little or nothing to do with any one else's individual path, believe it or not - it is soley God's responsibility. There are still 'rules' for engagement with other beings which you allude to, and even that is subject to a very personal evolution as part of the previous. We may get inspiration from the divine operating in and through others, but comparison (positive or negative) to others is a different matter.  

And being compassionate does not necessarily mean allowing oneself to be treated like a doormat (I just read and agree with what vajra has said in this regard) if that is what you are suggesting. There may have to be a viable balance between personal continuity and interaction with others. Iow's - there may be times when God wants one to put one's own foot down if someone, something (and many times, it is ourselves anyway) is directly interfering with, or limiting our individual life path - ie: God's unique expression in and through your own life. And if God wants one to do something, it is not unspiritual to do it. But what to do if one is not sure what the divine will is in any given situation?

In that regard, one practical thing that may help to deal with establishing a way of coping and progressing is to do what in the Gita, Krishna told Arjuna (who was having much of the same problems) to do as an essential life-practice, ie: Whatever you do, do it with the best intention, execute with the best presence of mind possible, and then whatever the outcome - offer the results to God. "You are entitled to the work but not the results". This way, God becomes more of a conscious co-experiencer through your individual life and you can release guilt, doubt, jealousy, insecurity, uncertainty/confusion - many negative effects of ego-attachment to 'reality', or what you think that is at any given moment and how 'you' expect to interact with it. By doing this exercise in detachment the very reality changes by your attitude, becoming less and less about a confusing and debilitating expectation with its possible (and likely) resulting frustration.  "Be a mere instrument", etc. Then God will evaluate one's progress accordingly and make it clear what experiences and 'adjustments' are necessary for one to make when one takes this approach, because one is consciously invoking the higher reality in one's earth life activity. It then becomes a continuous movement/evolution of 'now', and not an intermittantly and static status-check of separated 'events' to be evaluated by 'you'. This is not an abrogation of personal responsibility, but an enlargement of the circumference of it, integrally including a Principle that IS responsible for all. This is all towards a continuum of consciousness, hopefully leading more and more towards a participatory confluence with divine will and therefore greater satisfaction.

Also, if I may make another practical suggestion - this one much easier to impliment.
Perhaps you are doing this anyway, but if you are not, please at least consider doing the following:
Before opening your business in the AM every day - try to take just a few minutes to offer gratitude, and ask for protection and guidance. You will be amazed what this will do, both in terms of your own consciousness throughout the day and possibly even affecting outer circumstance. You could do the same practice at mid-day and also after you close if you have the time and inclination.

These are things that have worked and are working for me.

wishing you well,

u

Perhaps, Reach, because you think this way, because you question yourself, you develop your ability to notice more of life as it passes before you.

So, you can see for yourself, whether your glass is 1/2 full or 1/2 empty. When you listen to others, and while you are practicing kindness, if your glass is at least 1/2 full, you will have plenty to share with yourself and others. You will be full of love.

When you listen to others, if your glass looks empty, you will wonder, do I have enough to quench all this thirst?

In reality, there is always so much to quench your own thirst and the thirst of others.

And you already know this. What you have done and what I have done, we have already let it go. You remember that, letting go? No? Yes? No?

We ask the question, and then we let it go.

So, now we have love. And that is much better. Love is always better.

The true error is the belief that there is not enough love. We can point to so many examples of lack. And then we turn it onto ourselves. We see lack, scarcity, everywhere, in everyone, in everything.

But that's not reality. Reality is abundance. Abundance of light, love, and forgiveness.

Sometimes we wonder if our good deeds go unnoticed, if it is all for nothing. Perhaps the sun itself asks why there are shadows.

Without out evil, how would you know good...

Were all in this together..

peace and love

Alan McDougall wrote on Jun 5^th, 2008 at 10:15pm:

True, I meant to say it that way... lol

peace and love