Hitler is in a BST. it is where he believed the truth lies. possibly in his station, there are only blue-eyed blondes walking around. the idea he had of this race being superior over Jews. then one day he may see it was a hollow idea. a hollow heaven. as he begins to question his beliefs, life, or guides will step in and educate him that there is more to it than who is superior and who is inferior. It is about true compassion, not ego miscalculations. I'm sure Thomas understands this, but posting here, we cannot put ALL that we have learned, all that we believe. Not enough time, not enough words can bring what time, a lifetime brings to us in knowing through our individual experiences, whether we are leaders or followers.
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From Disappearance of The Universe Yeshua has returned through the pages of a book. many of those who label themselves Christians await his physical form return. this is because they so identify with the physical body as the only reality that they cannot conceive there are many spiritual works out there within book form that go far beyond the biblical forms, where the many interpretations are simply the signs of that particular time frame.
Now civilization is ready for something new. To look within. To stop looking on the outside for the truth. The bible is like looking at history. Now we look within for what is happening to our own belief system, and noticing we are programmed to react according to our own belief systems.

Reach, by blaming the politicians for the state of the world, you have simply found a scapegoat to put all the sins of the world unto. it's another dualistic mind frame. a trap. either the politicians are also our brothers, or they are a bunch of aliens come to do us in. we need to move to different thinking rather than blaming.
It would be the way of do unto others as you would have them do unto you. therefore, if you were in office, in politics, would you want to be blamed for the entire world's problems by another on a public forum?
certainly you wouldn't. You would take charge of what you believe this way by not passing the buck, you would forgive, and allow higher thought to guide you into cooperating with forces of good coming our way, a balancing of power and a religuishment of selfish enterprises of power mongering, which is the voice of the ego. and we all have an ego of varying degree which thinks this way. listen to the voice of Love. it's in everybody. thats what doing unto others means, by your thoughts of them.
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Here's a bit from Disappearance: Pursah and Arten appear physically to Gary Renard, author a series of visits of 17, over a period of time of 9 years and they were sent by your friend and mine, Yeshua, and as I said, it's believable when you see the content, although you have to listen to spirit for understanding. Pursah was Thomas of the bible, Arten was another disciple. there are two voices in each head, due to the split, the separation we did here on this planet which makes it seem as if God is absent. one voice is the ego, one is spirit which enjoins us to our oneness.
The ego always wishes to stand out, to be a correcting force for others. the spirit enjoins, to show the ego has no substance, and all it's good works it would point to are worthless on the other side.

When you all get home, the committe of your disc members only want to know one thing "how much did you love? Did you help just one person and not expect a return on that giving?
tell us whom you lifted from despair. Do not tell us how important you were and how you gained fame.
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It was discussed within Disappearance of the Universe JC did not plan on establishing a religion which has gone awry by so many different viewpoints. It was then necessary for him to channel this material to help us awaken from the dream thru ACIM, as well he channels himself through whoever is willing and there are many willing vehicles for that job. Ask and you will be led to your appropriate reading materials, just especially for you and the position of your beliefs at present.
One thing J did say, that is correct, you can ask and receive. It never fails. try it.
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None of this is real. We are at home. we are only partially here, to mean we dream we are here, because our bodies are vehicles of consciousness, we come here to gather experiences, but our essences are at home, known as higher self if you wish to call it that. We are probes. We gather, we learn to love, we learn to speak our truth and take self responsibility for our own woes, not blaming ANYONE, nor any organization, nor even some devil figment. We are to become mature co-creators and the ego is what crashes here and it hurts. But even hurt goes away within PUL. We are to forgive the world, just as JC did, in order to gain more awareness of who we really are, forgiving is to release the woe to higher authority.
It is like having faith and courage and humbleness. It is to be nonjudgmental. It is to love God with all your heart, mind and soul. These are the sayings of J, that you are love, that you dream a nightmare here and you buy into the nightmare by not lending a hand to these dirty lowdown politicians like Hitler. If you can do a better job of leading a nation, go and do it.
don't expect them to lead you to heaven.
they're probably sitting in their kitchen scratching their head, and wondering if they have to kiss a baby today or what, in order to implement a law they just thought of. they are just like you and me, on a journey and they know not where the ending point is, except that death is certain.

here's a little of Disappearance: "The people of the world will never live in peace until the people of the world have inner peace.

ATTAIN INNER PEACE! sorry for the shout. but this is the goal of the Course. That each one gain inner peace. this peace acts to extend itself once it is attained.

230,000 forums discussing the radical idea of attaining peace of mind..through the teaching of ACIM.
Wouldn't you agree it's popular and we are tired of biblical stuff and who begot whom is of no interest to me. I am only interested in the sayings and the rotes attached to what this person who walked here once said. Very very little of JC is in the bible. therefore we have to study what is available to us and listen to our own guidance and trust it.

R, as you know we will never agree on this literature. It is quite silly to continue to say the same things to each other. All you are saying is your guides are right, and mine must be wrong then. that's like saying your dog is bigger than my dog. Has that ever worked before? Isn't it childish?
We must let our differences go, for it is just a power play in truth. my large ego against your large ego. I do not wish to prove you wrong. I extend only what I have to give, peace to you on your journey and whatever you wish.  I think what you are running from is death of the ego that goes here.

I was just thinking today, it's true all of us will kick off someday and be forgotten as the world continues. the changes that come, for most of us, we are not born leaders, neither do we have to be, to have a life here. we are ordinary people having an experience of life, and that of course includes the leaders, who misuse power, as well as the ones who tried to make life better for others.
they are written down in a book somewhere, and once in awhile somebody remembers them.

We need to get unattached to this world. It is not our true home. But that does not mean we do not continue whatever our work is in this world. It just means we can do our work more efficiently and with more enthusiasm because we know what the eventual outcome of the dream will be. perfect peace, and perfect love even as the masters achieved.

continuing: Inner peace and true strength are major goals of ACIM, but it has a unique way of accomplishing this within you. The world will change as a result of it (u will see this) but that is not what the Course is for.  it is also a challenge and will shake you down to the core of your being. You will sometimes hear people say the Course is simple, but you will seldom hear them say it is easy. The world will appear to change for you  because the Course handles the cause of everything, rather than effects. If you ask for understanding, u will receive it. the more you react to it's message with disbelief, the more that you know this is what you need to look at, why you react to it with disbelief. it is your ego telling you to throw away something uncomfortable.
this is the world of the ego J wanted to show us a way out of the kind of thoughts that keep us here. the ego can be taught to perceive correctly, but we can not kill our egos. we can work with them to get beyond the first voice that speaks, the ego speaks first with limited perception.

it's exciting to hear the voice of truth speak to you. it's a direct communion with God essence.

The former disiple of Yeshua, Thomas, speaks: There is one more saying I must explain because it has been the subject of speculation for the first 400 years of the gospels existence:
J asked me to come with him, and he took him, and withdrew, and spoke 3 sayings to him. When Thomas came back to his friends, they asked him, what did J say to you? Thomas answered If I tell you one of the sayings he spoke to me, you will pick up rocks and stone me.
stoning was traditional punishment for blasphemy, although it wasn't used as much as you think.
J himself was never concerned for speaking blasphemy. the reason he told me (Thomas) not to speak these sayings was to protect me.
these are the 3 sayings he said to me that day.

You dream of a desert, where mirages are your rulers and tormentors, yet these images come from you. (we are making this world up, we are dreaming it)
Father did not make the desert, and your home is still with Him. (we are really still at home)
To Return, forgive your brother, for only then do you forgive yourself. (dont blame others for your troubles)
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Essentially, to forgive your brother is the pathway to learn of PUL, and to release ourselves from continual bondage to life circumstances, as it reveals an eternal moment where the power lies, of life abundant through PUL. If we do not forgive, we return in order to exact justice from perceived wrongdoing. and this is called a cycle of lives.
we never become free souls then, to perpetuate this endless dream of an eye for an eye.
through the limited visions of the individual ego collective.

and yet we do need help to learn what forgiveness is. so we ask spirit for help in that. we cannot do it alone. we need each other's example, as to how to learn true forgiveness, which sets us free from our guilty minds. we all believe we are guilty of something. TG has said here a clue once, getting over what the ego tells you, that you are guilty of something and will be punished, is what we need to look at on a spiritual path back to our original beginnings. its not the mistakes we did we should concentrate on, but how we may proceed from this moment that counts.
It's a return to our beginning point.

the reason this world is not real, it's a dream, is because God would never create mayhem such as we have nor does he exact punishment. we wish to punish each other; it is us who created this world by shoving God out of it. We cannot look upon the face of God while we are still yet human, but we can practice releasing our hatred against those who believe differently than us, or have a different color of skin. the only thing we can really change is our own self.

and changing your own self has an effect on others.

in addition, we learn what it is we teach. We increase knowledge in our own selves by sharing it. this creates gratitude and it grows. It makes the way easier. we share this in common. You cannot know a great truth unless you put it into practice and test it. so expressing what you have learned is one way to share it and increase it. If it's not true, it will not grow as it does not enjoin. non truth falls flat on it's face and has no eternal life.

who and what we are is what we study. we teach each other. we allow each other to grow at their own rate of speed by keeping to the forgiveness principle, also an attitude of acceptance within faith is PUL.
ACIM says it cannot teach you the meaning of love, as that is beyond it's curriculum and for that, you must have an experience. ACIM is designed to remove the blocks in the mind which block the experience of love, which is behind everything and the basis of our being, each and every one, even Hitler. He "loved" his Mein Kampe, whatever, spelled wrong probably.

it was his creation. he thought he was some sort of mini god. how awful. we must learn from him how awful it is to discriminate an entire people as not worthy to live here. why can't we share the Earth with all peoples? we learned a little bit, not to be swayed by charismatic leaders led by the voice of their need for power and to play God.
as well Hitler had a strong type of anger inside of him. his people were intrigued by this what is called passion.
they stopped listening to the voice of the spirit. the voice of truth. They told the Jews, this is not your country. you have no country. then guess what happened later? The Jews began to build their own nation once more. See, there's plenty of room here on this old tired Earth. I'm at the least glad they have a home, even though it continues to be a place to fight for them. at least they were not all wiped out. theres a purpose. J was a Jew don't forget. and btw, it was not the Jews who put J out to death. It was the Romans. The Romans were particularly cruel natured I've heard and this seems logical as well. I would just say they were animalistic or young, alien type souls using this Earth for a training of how exactly to gain eternal life..by participating on a planet not made by God, where killing was a thrill to them. the more gore, the better the show. a good example of the ego running amuck and an attitude of eat, drink and be merry.

although no one is going to read this, I must write it nonetheless. for myself. the anger energy which motivated Hitler drove him unto his end. He would never find God. He would never surrender to Love's purpose. Anger is a powerful thing.
we use it against one another all the time. we become righteous. We demand others submit to our righteousness. We pay for our attitudes with the same measure of sorrow, as anger separates us from Love. We feel so right. we set out to prove it. the more you try to prove you are right, the more the opposite energy arises to prove it is right and it's just a stand off at the ok coral. another drama to enact.
anybody who arises as leader, and misuses his power could be Hitler returned. therefore the heart path must be listened to, where the ego has to gain to earn, it extends love. only this is what you want.
only the changes love makes on you is what you want.

never give a gift expecting a return. none of us are the whole of God. A return to the joy of living is what a Hitler would desire if he could conceive of it's possibility. I wish some of you would go see him, get the real scoop. without joy of living, I see no purpose for this planet.

it has a lot to do with J's true message, apart from biblical expounding, and the nature of compassion and PUL energy.

Thomas TGecks, thank you for your post. The material will take off, however, hundreds of years of false teaching and misinterpreted biblical stuff is what has to be undone also, or pointed out and people have to give up their ego posturing and self righteousness, or just say "I don't know, but I will study, I will grow, I will know someday."

you do a fine job describing ACIM, just that one part about Hitler having a good time, I don't think we can buy that right now, but I can ask the holy spirit to help me forgive what I would be holding a grudge against anybody.
I'm looking forward to an enlightened age with no need of leaders. but I'll probably have another body if I decide to return. truly, I'm with Juditha on this one. I'd rather not re-enter the dream of this world if there's still people here who think they have superior truths and need to put down another's beliefs as inferior to theirs, and this is particularly insidious behavior to act this way "in the name of loving you."

Dont need this kind of love. thanks anyway.

Wow , LaffingRain those are some words you typed there and i don't mean the length 

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Some of the books that i am reading at the moment include Our Ulitmate Reality - Adrian Cooper in fact i get a news letter every week and have just got my hands on The Science of being by Eugene Fersen. I determined to learn more has time goes on.

Alysia said (While speaking of Dissapearance of a Universe and ACIM), "as you know we will never agree on this literature. It is quite silly to continue to say the same things to each other. All you are saying is your guides are right, and mine must be wrong then. that's like saying your dog is bigger than my dog. Has that ever worked before? Isn't it childish?
We must let our differences go, for it is just a power play in truth. my large ego against your large ego. I do not wish to prove you wrong. I extend only what I have to give, peace to you on your journey and whatever you wish.  I think what you are running from is death of the ego that goes here."

R(ecovorer) responds:  I have Dissapearance of a Universe. I believe the whole thing is a hoax that Gary Renard made up. There are many things within it that I don't agree with including its claim that ACIM comes from Christ. Like ACIM, it claims that God had nothing to do with the creation of this universe. This universe is just a big mistake. Check out what the book has to say about NDEs. I think on pg. 263. The book says that NDEs don't accurately depict what happens during death. It says that because of guilt and fear of God most people reincarnate shortly after death. They have to reincarnate thousands of times. I've read lots of NDEs, and it sure doesn't seem to me that people run into guilt and fear of God issues. Rather they have wonderful experiences of divine love. Issues that relate to guilt are often taken care of during a life review. They usually don't want to come back to this World but do so because of responsibilities they need to take care of such as their kids.  They never seem to come back and state that you have to become an enlightened being or you'll have to reincarnate over and over again. They simply say to live your life according to love.

As I've written before, I've prayed to Christ a number of times and I have always been told that ACIM doesn't come from Christ. I don't know why people get so hung up on the book. If they really want to receive guidance from Christ, WHY DON'T THEY PRAY TO HIM AND ASK FOR GUIDANCE?  It is as if they are afraid to do so. Not much commitment is required if you simply rely on a book.  You can pick and choose as much as you want. Unfortunately,  as I found with my self and with others, the book can have a brainwashing effect, even if it has some nice things to say now and then.  Anybody can say: "Forgive, forgive..."  

I believe that some people are afraid to question the validity of ACIM because they've defined their spiritual state according to the course. They believe that to say something against the course is to say something against themselves.  They should have enough faith in themselves so that even if they did make a mistake about the course, they'll still find that there is plenty about themselves they can feel good about.

I believe if one wants to show at least a little respect for Christ, they'll pray to him and ask him if the course comes from him, before they start shouting to the whole World that it does. This is what I did, because I was honest enough to realize that I might make a mistake when it comes to discriminating if ACIM comes from Christ.

I've found that the instruction I've received from Christ is quite different than ACIM. None of this new age like 365 day fits all course.   People don't have to rely on me to determine this. They can pray to Christ, receive guidance, and find out for themselves.

One more comment about Gary Renard and the dissapearance of the universe. It sure seems odd that he supposedly had dialogues with beings he claimed to have dialogues with, and somehow mysteriously the tapes got destroyed.  First there is ACIM, then Renard's dissapearance of the universe in order to help people understand ACIM, and now there's a book to help people understand Renard's dissapearance of the universe! Talk about a cash cow.

I certainly have some unanswered questions about Gary Renard, and I am unfamiliar with ACIM. I just went to the site and found that they have all the lessons available in any order in which a person would like to study them. Apparently, this was not always so. The lessons are not for everyone. Not everyone will be able to accept this course of instruction, as it is set out.

However, I did find a 2007 interview with Gary Renard which gave me a better idea of his attitude toward the personal seeker:

“Whatever we think about other people is really a message that we are sending into the unconscious mind about ourselves. So if we’re smart enough not to judge and condemn others - like the Buddha who had no judgment, and Jesus who not only had no judgment, but who had total love for everyone, and saw everyone as innocent and totally worthy of being with God - then that is the exact message that we would be sending into our own unconscious mind and that’s exactly how we would come to eventually feel and experience ourselves.”

Fascinated by this hopeful way of understanding the world, I asked Gary how to put such love and non-judgment into action. He responded by noting that there are two ways of undoing the experience of separation from God. “First, in the morning take some quiet time, 5 or 10 minutes, and forget about all the things you think you need or have to do or want. Just join with God in a state of meditation, with no words, and spend some quiet time with God - just joining with the light of God and feeling totally unlimited and getting lost in his love. If you do that every day, there is an aftereffect of inspiration. You will receive other gifts - not as physical miracles, but as inspiration in the mind that can lead to miracles.

“The other major way of undoing the sense of separation is through the practice of forgiveness. Forgiving others leads to an experience of rejoining with yourself and feeling whole again.” Such unconditional forgiveness may not be easy, but Renard suggests it is the core reason for being.

I suppose a person could take this advice to heart and never read any books at all. But, somehow, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Thank God for the many books we have available to us, and the freedom we have to express our truth to each other. Each of us is so fortunate to have the words to say how we feel, and the heart to feel it.

love, blink

Hi Blink, thanks for your post. I am always grateful for this place to post my beliefs, as well my experiences as I've never seen so many friendly souls in one spot, as well from around the world.

I thank Bruce publically sometimes, but in my heart I constantly think thank you to him. and Monroe too.

I sense my time will end here someday, to be here among you, it's been about 8 years. so it makes the time here even more precious.

also one thing about ACIM is towards the end of the text it tells the student to "forget" this book. and go and have an experience, which means experience is more important, to test out the concepts for one's own self. I've been over 20 years testing the concepts about what love is and about what my illusions of love are..and I found it was all true, at least to my satisfaction. it is a self study course, unlike the bible thumpers, it can never be changed like the bible has been tampered with, until it is becoming well known that it has not the original message of love in it, which we call PUL here.

Yes, I've learned from being here, responding to so many posts, that how we see ourselves is how we see others, and making a statement about another, a person reveals then how they see themselves, and they are making a statement about this, and not about the other person or persons.

so I learned slowly, not to take it personally, whatever comes my way, is really none of my business what another thinks of me. yes, well, it takes practice! it's part of forgiving act.

Gary mentions in Disappearance that it took 9 years to complete his book, in which at the beginning he was still daily practicing forgiveness.

forgiveness is also about small things, like small irritations in life, as well as major relationships problems, so it's a way of life.
I like the idea of 5 or 10 minutes to be or feel at one with God. that is what I did too, only it was more like several hours of being with God oneness for myself, as I did not have to go to work during the time I took it. So 5 or 10 minutes would be great for the person who does 9 to 5.

thanks again, yes I believe the core reason for being is forgiveness so that we are not negative when we release the pain, the guilt, the fears that are hidden.

love, alysia

Hi Blink, Alysia, R and Reach. I read Disappearance of the Universe, and got a lot from it. I'd a quick look at the organisation Gary started, but would have to say that I thought it wasn't quite on the same level as the book - that it's methods seemed possibly a little naive.

That might just have been my not connecting very well, but it might conceivably also be an indication that the book is the work of rather more than just himself.

There's from my own personal experience and what's taught by Buddhism enormous wisdom in what he and ACIM teaches on forgiveness, and on taking time for resting quietly and setting aside thought - stopping grasping, letting go,  resting with flow and meditating if you like. Even quite short periods of daily meditation can produce remarkable improvements in insight and well being - small miracles is a nice way of putting it, except that the miracles may well prove far from small.

Opening of the heart for example.

It's out of the silence that intuition and knowing come, rather than from reading or intellectual machinations. That doesn't mean that reading and intellectual explanation can't help to provide signposts, or to resolve technical issues getting us stressed out - but it's intuitive knowing and becoming, and not intellect that truly leads to transformation - to wisdom, compassion and loving behaviours towards both oneself and others.

It's a little rich for me to say this (Alysia knows why ) but there's for me little point in getting too hung up about the legitimacy or otherwise of specific writings. The problem is that in the end even if a book is inspired we may not due to differences in how we 'see' connect very well with  it, or due to differences in how we use language draw the same meaning as another, or indeed as the writer intended.

We may at a given time have very different needs to another, or to those the writer was addressing. Writing can be pitched at levels ranging from the good old C1 linear logical objective ( e.g. the simple behavioural rules of conventional institutional religion), to the much much more subtle multidimensional, nuanced and paradoxical stuff that requires a great deal of insight and to connect with and apply. (e.g. certain Zen/Buddhist perspectives) We may also due to pre-existing belief systems simply be unable for the moment to take in what is actually very deep truth.

Books that really work spiritually have 'heart', that is they connect emotionally and spiritually at a much deeper level than the conscious intellect or ego, and act to weaken or even remove sometimes unconscious blocking beliefs. The trouble is that the 'chemistry' of this is highly subjective - how well or indeed if it works at all depends on the match between the reader and the writer, and to quite a degree on circumstance too.  A very skilled or better still an inspired writer will connect with a wider range of people, but it still comes down to fit or match.

What all this means for me is that it's best to remain pretty open and relaxed in responding to most books and teaching. No, it may not work for me, but that doesn't mean it's wrong for somebody else. Or I may not get it now, but be blown away in two years time by which point I'll have developed the required insight.

The truly great stuff of course plays at multiple levels - every time you come back to it it reveals deeper layers of meaning.

That's not to say there's not stuff that's so apparently off the wall that as a practical matter it's not best set aside. But even then it's probably best to do this as lightly as possible, to not get too invested in a negative (or a positive) view. Yes, it could lead another astray, but we all have our knowing, we all have to learn for ourselves and we're required to make space and to trust.

Never  say never. We're ultimately each our own guru/teacher...

Vajra:

If somebody took on a more traditional Christian belief system and wouldn't budge from it,  some people on this forum would say they are stuck in a belief system. At least ways traditional Christian beliefs systems refer to Gospels that actually have some historical relation to the life of Christ. The exact degree is hard to say.

To me words such as respect, reverence, grattitude, love, humility and loyalty do have a place in the dictionary. Therefore, when a source claims to represent God and/or Christ when they don't, I don't believe in taking a que sera sera attitude about it. I believe it is completely inexcusable for Helen Schuchman, William Thetford and Gary Renard with his imaginary characters to claim that they represent the teachings of Christ when they don't. If a person isn't able to see why it is completely unacceptable for them to do so, this tells me that they don't know what it means to have reverence, grattitude and loyalty towards a being like Christ. He has helped me so much there is no way I can sit down quietly when sources make false claims about receiving messages from him or beings who are supposedly closely associated and therefore authorized to represent him. Gary Renard just basically speaks Vedanta based views that don't represent the truth accurately, and then irrresponsibly attributes them to Christ.

With all the help I've received from Christ, he has never asked me to pass on words to other people, much less many, many words.  My feeling is that until a principle matches my level of wisdom, there isn't much point in my sharing it with others. All I do if I do so is add to the huge pile of incomplete and often inaccurate information that already exists.

People might say that they only have to accept what they want when reading ACIM, but the fact of the matter is that when a person assumes that something comes from an infallible source, either consciously or unconsciously, they are allowing their minds to take on a limited belief system that in the end will prevent them from seeing and living according to truth.   Being able to forgive doesn't mean you can't see when somebody is trying to con you.

It isn't a matter of whether "some" truth can be found in ACIM and the dissapearance of the universe.  It is a matter of whether these sources are what they claim to be.

Years ago when I was involved with eastern teachings there is a lot within dissapearance of the universe I would've agreed to.  This is no longer the case, even though some of the things the book says sound true.  I'm surprised that a fan of Buddhism such as yourself didn't take exception when Renard's imaginary beings supposedly told him that the Buddha wasn't completely enlightened.