true, we could use that reminder often Kathy. Mind and heart should be united in purpose.

Kathy wrote:

"When eastern philosophies speak of illusion I believe this is what they are saying or basically that even though we find our identity in form, our true nature is that which is formless. The ultimate formless (God) is our true, unadulterated nature. The experience of this while in the physical is the merging with the divine essence within and in doing so we lose all of our identity with form and [we]] know beyond a shadow of a doubt that [[we]] are one with this essence.  And this is where love comes into the picture. When [[we]] know[[our]] true essence is the light of God, [[we]] are able to recognize this same essence within all [[others]] and [[we]] are able to truly love the [[other]] because it is the essence within them or God that [[we]] love.

“Love God with all [[your]] heart, and with all [[your]] soul, and with all [[your]] strength. And love all [[others]] as [[you]] love [[yourself.” ]] 

[[You]] are the absolute light of God, so loving [[yourself]] (the essence that [[you]]r are) is loving God the same as loving [[others]] (the same essence that is within them) is also loving God."

My Response: I read this the other day and wasn't thinking of responding, but then I had a dream that suggested I should.  I enclosed certain words within double brackets above, because they all alude to the fact of a "somebody" who has a realization of the oneness Kathy speaks about.  When such a person has such a realization only that person has such a realization.  Eastern gurus sometimes represent themselves as if they are beyond God, because they claim that they've realized that they are the one self which existed before God came to be. It seems to me that the point they miss when they make such a statement, is that if it wasn't for the fact that the creative aspect of God caused the processes of creation to come to the point where eventually the person of a guru who makes such a statement comes to be, the guru wouldn't be able to make the claim he or she makes. Therefore, I believe that gurus should give a little more credit to the God that enables everything to be.

The other night I reached another level in my meditation. As I layed in bed spirit energy tried to push itself past blocks in both my crown and heart chakras with a lot of force.  I was shown an image which included an area that had the color violet.  My spirit guidance asked me: "What does that color represent?"  I looked at the violet section, realized that the color was violet, and that the color represents the crown chakra. This was a cue to allow a part of my energy to reach a part of my crown chakra I haven't allowed it to reach before.  I tried to get my energy to reach this area by trying to see my way around the thought patterns that caused the block to this area and the block within my heart chakra. I heard my spirit guidance say: "You're thinking too much."  Since I realized that divine guidance was trying to get my energy to move past my blocks, I decided to stop thinking and just surrender to what guidance was trying to do.

Shortly afterwards, my energy made it to the part of my crown chakra that was blocked. I experienced a really nice feeling of peace, well being, stillness and natural fullness.  I also felt love because I noticed that I was connecting with my spirit guidance at a mind to mind level more than I had done before. It was as if we were a part of the same mind.

I became excited because I figured I could communicate with guidance more completely than I had before.  Problem is, I couldn't think of any questions to ask. For a little while I considered how unimportant some of my attachments are when compared to the state of being I was experiencing. Then I left it up to my guidance to show me whatever it wanted to show me.

It started showing me some really hostile and creepy imagery. This didn't matter, because from the state of being I was coming from, this imagery seemed empty and meaningless, and I knew that the kind of beings the imagery represented couldn't do anything to harm the spirit being I truly am. Next my guidance showed me some creepy imagery that was comical in nature, so it would become clear that they were helping me understand that I don't need to be afraid of evil spirits. One of these images was a hostile Caspar like spirit.   I've understood in the past that I don't have to be afraid of unfriendly spirits and that the imagery they project is empty, but I understood this more completely during this experience.

Next I experiened myself traveling along side a train that traveled on a track, and a car that kept up with this train on a road. The point of this experience was to allow me to see that movement takes place within me, rather movement being something my being takes part in.

Next I found myself in a theatre that was packed with very happy people.   ...  The seating was set up so that the stage was in the center of the theatre rather than in the back. I didn't feel as if I was in a seat. Rather I felt as if the theatre and the people were within my awareness.  This goes along with some past experiences which showed that when we experience oneness we feel as if others are within us. Or should I say a part of us?

I was shown a few other things, but I can't remember what they were. The key point is that I allowed my energy to reach a part of my crown chakra I hadn't allowed it to reach before, and unlike the bliss experiences which were reached without my energy reaching that part of my crown chakra, I was able to think very clearly, rather than go into a state where I couldn't continue to think.

Imagine you're standing on top of a mountain. The night is really clear and many stars can be seen. Perhaps millions, billions, trillions or even more, depending upon how far your awareness will stretch.  Each of these stars represents a spirit who has found the way to perfect wisdom, happiness, peace and love. Would it make sense to negate all of these beings, so only one self could exist?  Or does it make more sense that God created everything so many divine beings could exist, including the gurus who deny such a thing?

Kathy:

It seems like you're talking about a "you" who experiences it.  Going by the messsage etc I received, the intention isn't for there to be only one being all by itself in the end.  It would be mass spiritual suicide for things to end up that way.  Perhaps each of us can experience this oneness, but in order for each of us to be able to do so, we have to be here in some way.  You wouldn't be able to take part in this conversation if there wasn't a you who took part in it. Nor, would there be anybody you could have the conversation with.

Here is another way to put it. You have a bunch of fish in an ocean. Each fish reaches the point where it can experience the entire ocean. Each fish doesn't need to dissapear in order for this to take place, because they are a part of the ocean. An ocean doesn't lose its reality, because fish exist within it.

What if a person gets to the point where he or she can experience only the space that exists within a room, regardless of how much furniture exists within it? Does the furniture actually go away, or does a person simply stop noticing it for a while?

Ramana Maharshi was one of the most famous advocates of the non-dual viewpoint during the 19th century. As far as he was concerned there was only the one self.  One day my guidance showed me an image of him sitting at one end of a table with a business suit on (he usally wore only a loin cloth), a lady sat at the other half. I could tell this meant that Ramana's viewpoint wasn't balanced, because he wasn't acknowledging the creative aspect of being.

Another time I received the words, "There's been too much emphasis on consciousness, not enough on love." This message served the same purpose as the above.

Right now at this moment there might be a person who is having the experience you speak of. Does this mean that anybody who is taking part on this forum at  this moment doesn't exist, or is such a person simply having an experience that represents one viewpoint that doesn't encompass the manifest and the unmanifest at the same time? It seems that my experience served the purpose of showing how the manifest and unmanifest "DO" exist at the same time.

I do understand the point you are trying to make. For years I followed Eastern teachings that said the same thing.



Lights of Love wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2008 at 5:10pm:

What an amazing thread, and such fun to experience you guys trying to describe that which cannot be described.

Great job!

Resonating with you all, share the bliss!

blink

hi all, just jumping in a little..R said: It seems that my experience served the purpose of showing how the manifest and unmanifest "DO" exist at the same time.
_____

according to my meditations and studies, this is undeniably true, R.  I also think it is good news.
The confusion lies in the limitations of the 5 senses to pick up that what is "out there is also "In" here.

as far as the heart chakra, when it begins to spin faster, the frequency is increased the ability to feel love. otherwise known as the opening heart. as it opens one begins to feel not separated from others, instead love is a unifying thing/energy. the faster it spins the more love is perceived in the lifestream.
In order to get the heart fully open, dealing with fears surrounding belief systems, and those constructs helps the heart open more. the reason is that fear is not felt while feeling love; as opposites, they cannot exist in the same space of the mental or heart at the same time.
so as I see it, by focusing in on what is love, all by itself, without desire, without expectations, but what is this thing we call love?

here we call it PUL. p is for pure.  then it has no conditions to fulfill either.

its interesting love can be shared, but fear cannot be shared. nobody has every said to another, I am coming over now to have tea and crumpets then I will share a fear I have with you. lol.

the word share seems congruent with the word love.

I think we are all love, yet this is our essence, and at the same time, Love becomes the definition of the mystery of God.
Our belief systems, in that regard become like our play things, of the personal ego, and the ego loves to divide and separate itself out from all others, so the ego does not believe in sharing.

ending on a positive note, the body is a vehicle for spirit. It can become light filled, with a different kind of energy, not experienced before, and this is like a quickening so called by the bible, (I think)

a quickening and an increase in frequency in our chakras does seem related. I am adding a personal note that my body has changed within the last year or so, and I feel lighter when I walk, like a springy step I never had before. yet a downside is here.

the slightest wish or thought of dying and my body complies to begin to die. weird huh? I mean that my immune system will be influenced by my thoughts very quickly as if I had made a wish to it, it will respond to do whatever I tell it to.

So we must be vigilant and only think thoughts of life and abundant life if we wish to stay on the planet. and it is so very necessary to love one another, there is no reason to live in a world without love..

just my thoughts, theres nothing here to be gained without being able to express love openly, to all, and to be able to also receive what is unconditional love, and what is our essence.

Recoverer,

Huh, what did you say, I was busy making my sign, the one that says "Who needs death, I've got bliss and love. Take your pick."

I think I need something to carry around. It's more fun that way.

---------------

So, then I wondered, why did I say that? It's so ambiguous. I mean, am I simply dismissing the very idea of death, or actually acknowledging it?

I tend to agree with Kathy. Form is so transient, so subject to interpretation. Can we describe it as a gem? Many-sided. I tend to agree that absolute truth is beyond form.

blink

Okay Kathy:

Great idea to start the other thread.