Hi again Kathy-

Don said:  "God is generally experienced as "wholly other" and that aspect of mystical experience explains why "fear" in the sense of reverential awe is a standard aspect of such experiences." 

This reminds me of a story I had told on this board a few years ago.  I was working for a really hard-bitten, sacrilegious boss. Life did not deal John a very good hand.  His wife was suffering from MS and his son was constantly getting into trouble.  To sum up, he was pretty much of an SOB and definitely a person you would not want to ever cross.  John was an avowed atheist and didn't care who knew it.

One day he came into my office and shut the door.  He said something had happened the night before and he needed to share it because it affected him in a profound way.

He said he had just gotten into bed when he felt compelled to look up at where the wall joined the ceiling. 

He saw what he described as the most beautiful, perfect hand imaginable.  He said it was like alabaster and seemed to be glowing.  One finger of the hand was pointing at him, in what he interpreted as symbolizing rebuke.  Strong yet incredibly gentle and loving. 

The most striking part was when he said that he knew, intuitively, that he would not be able to bear gazing on the entire figure if it were to appear.  He said it would have been too painful, not because of fear but because of the sheer spiritual power he felt radiating from the hand into every cell of his body.  If the whole figure had materialized, he said he would have had to look away. He said he knew he couldn't bear the sight.

The rebuke was because John was not handling his wife's illness in the way he should.  He had taken up with a woman who worked in the office which he knew was wrong but he was not able or willing to break it off.

Had John been a religious person, it probably would not have had much of an impact on me.  But I was totally unprepared for the story he told.

Is God becoming us?  I hardly think so.  But that's just my opinion.

(And by the way, when you say "us", to whom are you referring?  We humans living on earth?)

R

Hi again to you, too, Roger.

I agree this is a very nice story. I'm wondering did this experience change your boss' life?

Actually the question 'Is God becoming us?' comes from Mellen-Thomas Benedict’s NDE I posted on the first page of this thread. He is the one that said God is becoming us, so I wondered what all of you thought about this idea.

K

Kathy-

No, that vision had no affect on John's life.  He continued as before.  On the one hand he was stunned by his experience, but on the other hand he was totally materialistic and was not willing to change his ways.

The other thing that continues to intrigue me is why was John singled out for this profound experience?  I mean, what he was doing was wrong, but millions of others do the same thing and far worse. 

Why are these sorts of experiences relatively so rare?  Is there a protocol that must be in place in order that they happen, or are they purely random?  Altho if the experience was divinely inspired, it would seem to rule out a random occurrence.

R

Quote:


I totally agree from a slightly different slant Blink. I submit we are in process of remembering we are love (absolute nondualistic Love) after having dived into matter and agreed to the veil of forgetfullness that we are infinite love, and one with god. Becoming implies we go forward (in time) towards our unlimited beingness (god)
while it is the ego who would place limits on just how far we can go in one life.  We are all courageous in our souls to have taken an Earth life.

love, alysia

Kathy hit upon a good point..". The highest spiritual frequency of being that I’m aware of contains no belief.."

this statement reminds me of TMI's premise, there is no bad, there is no good. it's a nonduality consciousness as I see it, and in religious terms is a nonjudgmental approach to life.
____

In regards to the topic head, is God becoming Us? I reflect back to years ago here, we were all talking about a subject such as why the Earth plane was birthed, and we talked about how God played hide and seek and loved to surprise Him/Herself.  When we say in some circles "I am trying to find myself"
It could be seen as God seeking Himself/Herself.

I don't like to use gender to define God, but we are stuck in that definition for the time. I used to joke, God is a black woman, but it's not funny anymore! lol.  The created cannot be separated from the Creator.

Love is the glue that glues it all together. great post Kathy.

In regards to Rondele's account of the materialist, atheist I could offer that I don't think it was a random type of experience, the pointing finger materializing. I think the finger planted a seed which sprouts in time.

When one's spouse is sick like his wife had MS, the marriage provides fertile ground for spiritual headway on the part of the one who is well. I believe he still loved his wife, but was no longer getting what he needed in the marriage because of her declining health. Because he still loved her, he developed a guilt complex and shoved it into his unconscious. the guilt rose because he turned to another to fill his needs, unable to sacrifice himself. A spiritual outlook would be to stick to his vows and see his wife through her trials. Not many are this self sacrificing in a marriage, especially not an atheist.

He knew what he should do but he pushed the thought from his mind. Yet what is in the subconscious as a conflict, will still manifest in these paranormal experiences, and we could say his higher self was instigating the lesson plan of the pointing finger, as surely, he was out of touch with spiritual principle.

I believe all relationships are sacred ventures, even with enemies, that can be turned around to show that god is working there too, to find himself.
Marriage is a very serious thing to undertake, but great opportunity exists there to discover our propensity to love fully. In his heart the man knew this, and he knew he was failing Love's purpose and that's why this was not a random experience, but a divine one.

Briefly, I've told this story before too Roger, why do we have to retell it? 

My sister had cancer, was dying. Her husband took up with another woman while sis laid there in her bed dying. They had seemed to have a good marriage until this. Sis died very bitterly at only about 38 yrs of age. She loved life until then and had a loving fun nature up until then.

I think she knew he was out cheating already but not sure, all I know is she started to hate everybody in the whole world and certainly her man was not helping her deal with it.

It would have shown some bit of kindness? to at least wait until she died before running around on her, so she probably didn't want to fight uphill all by herself to get well.

so here's poetic justice does occur. All of us are connected, on an unseen level. Some are more sensitive to that collective pot and have lucid dreams, Obes, impressions come. My mother, who was emotionally attached to both sis and her husband, and had even been instrumental in advising sis to marry this man....had this phenomenal encounter in a lucid area with this cheating man.

She didn't have many of these experiences, so when she told me about it, I knew it was poetic justice unraveling. it's tit for tat.  Sis died, and her husband moved in the other woman right away into the home they had built together. Either he died himself or the union broke up, as he came into mother's dream world screaming Help me! Joan won't see me! She wants nothing to do with me! I was so wrong to treat her that way...please help me get back with her!

Mother was at a loss what to say to him. Then I also saw my sister in an Obe afterwards. She showed me she had found someone on the other side, a man who loved her dearly. so I conclude love is alive on the other side as well, it could be alive here if we would do what our vows suggest. be true.

Life is a lesson plan I do believe towards discovering what it means to love each other within the promise to do so. We don't always succeed, but there's opportunity to re-learn what we are doing here.
We're getting there. We're still in duality and have moved off the straight and narrow path yet we have these extraordinary experiences to help us realize the right choices.

love, alysia