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Jesus said love thine enemies (Read 3299 times)
juditha
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Jesus said love thine enemies
Mar 6th, 2008 at 5:39pm
 
Hi I wonder what you think of what Jesus says about loving thine enemies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2nrNOlUiZc&feature=related

Love and God bless    love juditha
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Jesus said love thine enemies
Reply #1 - Mar 8th, 2008 at 4:17am
 
To be crude about it, I view it as the necessary obligation of all of us. An obligation imposed because in the end, we all began as One and in the end we are all One. So it's kinda like love your own arse hole, because it's part of you - however you don't have to spend all day playing with it or trying to glorify its function, nor does it serve well to try to deny its existence.

Then those who aren't really our enemies, but are just obnoxious, I suppose we could compare to armpits. Still - same logic. Wink

dave
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Nanner
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Re: Jesus said love thine enemies
Reply #2 - Mar 16th, 2008 at 7:54am
 
Juditha I am bumping this thread subject because I dont feel that enough people have commented on it for my taste.

You started a serious subject here honey.

Love thy enemy incorperates "
learning unconditional love
". Always remember that Christ was 99% spirit and 1% humankind. Its very easy for someone whom has very little to overcome to "love thy neighbor", whereas it is very friggin hard for the imperfect sinner like myself to do so, for the neccessary steps inwhich one learns this have to be walked thru first. I am just now beginning to understand the depth of it, that Christ roamed this earth explicidly so to show me that I am a child of God, just as he is. It is the "teachings" of mankind which hold or should I rather say Held me back, for I was taught according to MAN and not according to GOD. (Understand what I mean?)

Thats what we are doing each and every day of our lives, we are re-learning - providing we strive for that: We are learning to go towards the 99% spirit mile marker. Some of us learn quicker, better and intensively than others and thus practise the learned on a daily basis. I would suppose this ties into the Karma Belief System too. I do not doubt that Christ lived, I do not doubt that there is a God and I do not doubt that we advance in consciousness level with each run of life either. Eventually we have experienced enough that we understand the true meaning of "love thy neighbor!"

Hugs to all,
Nanner
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vajra
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Re: Jesus said love thine enemies
Reply #3 - Mar 16th, 2008 at 9:19am
 
Seems to me Nanner that the problem with 'love thy neighbour' is that while it's paramount it can be tricky when taken as a practical instruction. It's so open to misinterpretation. What's worse I don't think we can ever truly know what it means until we reach that as much spirit as human point (realisation) where it genuinely becomes possible to do so.

One example of the practical difficulties in it is the question 'what is love?'. Many define it in rose tinted nicey nicey saccharin terms when as often said love in fact is often as much 'tough' as soft.

The mother that smothers her perfectly capable son by running around after him picking up his junk, serving up laundry and meals, making excuses for him time after time as he fails through making no effort and allowing all sorts of self indulgent carry on without ever sticking a marker in the sand regarding what he needs to do is NOT expressing unconditional love.

He'll probably be perfectly happy to be indulged, she'll at some level rationalise it as being a great mother, but in practice he's being denied a learning experience, and being blocked from taking responsibility for himself while she is probably indulging some neediness in herself. It's in effect a form of unhealthy co-dependence.

That's not by the way to say that there are not instances where the son is in some way incapable, and this kind of support is consequently 100% appropriate.

The bugbear as ever is ego, or selfishness. Until we finally drop it we can't help but that self interest guides our behaviour - to whatever degree it's present. It can of course in the case of say the above Mother, or a spiritual teacher using his or her role for personal feel-good or even financial gain, or members of a religious group who play the game because they think it'll take them to heaven on a rocket be very subtly expressed, and be wholly unconscious. But it's there.

The wholly realised person (it's taught all over the place) has by comparison reached a point where since the selfish urge is no longer present they can truly empathise, and consequently see what's in the other person's interest. And for the same reason can access intuitive prompting which when blended with an unbiased intellect makes it likely they will act correctly for the other in any given situation.

WinkThey most probably will even have come to genuinely love their arse.

Trouble is what they do may be very far removed from the politically correct saccharin view (which for example is usually a selfish positioning that seeks personal advantage by making the speaker 'holier than thou') of what loving behaviour might be in that situation.

We're all somewhere on the path to realisation, but have varying distances left to travel. And can only act at our level of consciousness. It seems to me means that what matters is the path. We can't avoid getting it to varying degrees wrong  all the time. What matters is that we keep on working to learn, both through experience, and through spiritual work and study. And that we persist in doing our level best to maximise the wisdom and compassion we apply in our lives.

But at the same time be realistic about the situation - we can't get it right all the time.

Meaning that at a given point we can only ever 'love our neighbour as ourself' in relative terms. Or (genuinely) do our best. How can you avoid doing harm to your neighbour when you can even avoid harming yourself and most of the time, and (as demonstrated by millions upon millions every day) haven't a clue what will make yourself happy???

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betson
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Re: Jesus said love thine enemies
Reply #4 - Mar 16th, 2008 at 9:52am
 
Greetings, 

talking about puzzling predicaments, Jesus also said to turn the other cheek.
So how do we balance PUL and cheek-turning? 50% of the time for each?
Juditha, I bet you don't do 50% cheek turning, do you?
I bet we'd all be better off we did that though, as there's only so much one can do! 
Or did He also say to never give up?

Bewildered Bets
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Nanner
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Re: Jesus said love thine enemies
Reply #5 - Mar 16th, 2008 at 10:13am
 
Hey V - thats a really good point and thanks - that gives me yet another perspective.
Its in the level of consciousness of the individuals persepction of the term "unconditional love"... This smothering mom feels she loves her son unconditionally, however when looking at it from the other view she merely loves her son out of selfishness, for she is not allowing him to "become independant" due to her actions? Is that what your sayin?

My perception of "unconditional love" is allowing one or everything to simply "be". Being very careful of my own actions not to over do it with choices which force others to become unbalanced.

I wonder always if my perception is a valid one.  Huh

Hugs,
Nanner

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Nanner
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Re: Jesus said love thine enemies
Reply #6 - Mar 16th, 2008 at 10:15am
 
Bewildered Bets,
50 - 50 seems to be a great balance.  Roll Eyes
BUT I`m in with you - thats like smackin someone one min and then turning their face to the other side to kiss it. (I just tried to picture that and it looked pretty wierd)
LOL...Hugs
Nanner
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juditha
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Re: Jesus said love thine enemies
Reply #7 - Mar 16th, 2008 at 6:04pm
 
Hi bets I cant always turn the other cheek as it is a very hard thing to do,but what i try very hard to do is to do onto others as i would have them do onto me but sometimes when ive done this,i have not always had a good return and then ive wondered why i bothered in the first place,but i still keep doing it,i think its what i call (Trying to keep faith in human nature)but that is one of the hardest things for me to keep doing as i have been let down quite a lot im my life by the so called loving human race,God knows that i,m not perfect and he knows that none of us in this whole world are not perfect,i know that God loves me ,truly loves me for what i am,for who i am and that means more to me than all the money in china,i love God so much,without him in my heart in my life i would give up altogether.

I know if i came face to face with Jesus i would fall to his feet and i would break down and cry and ask him why i had to suffer so much sometimes.

Love and God bless   love juditha  love to you nanner love to you vajra and love to you bets,aylsia,dave and all of you on here.
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vajra
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Re: Jesus said love thine enemies
Reply #8 - Mar 16th, 2008 at 10:22pm
 
Wink Tee hee! Cheek turning could of course reflect self indulgent masochistic tendencies, and be ego driven too!!! Wonder which cheeks???

Think you're about right Nanner with the point about letting things be, although where this gets a bit more complicated is in situations that require us to act.

The terms 'going with the flow', or 'to natural order', or 'in accordance with God's will' might be another way of saying it. The idea being that events in the world have a natural flow (the Tao in Taoism) which if allowed to play out lead to the greatest good for all. (as a result of the 'natural goodness' inherent in the reality we create, or as a result of God's Grace depending on your view)

The first complication is perhaps that we are a part of that flow - so to stand aside and not act can (unless inaction is the wisest course) be as much an 'action' in terms of creating outcomes as not acting. In that it influences outcomes. (but so often we out of runaway mental processes feel compelled to act when the wisest course is actually not to so so)

Another is that we can act, but get it wrong. Ego or self interest is the most common cause of problems here it's taught, although lack of skill combined with circumstances where action is required of us may be in there too.

Realisation or the ability to express PUL or agape or live in love in this perspective could be said to be the ability to be able to harmonise our actions/non actions with the natural flow. (but you can describe it in terms of ability to live through love, through wisdom, fearlessly as well - there's lots but all flow from dropping the delusion of the separation of  'self' and 'other'.

While generally the path of least suffering for all there may be times when this isn't obviously the right thing to do, or it may lead to pain.

Turning the other cheek I guess could be interpreted as underlining the fact that we can't and won't always get it right. We often act out of love, but through a lack of skill or wisdom suffer more negative consequences than expected or don't bring about the result we seek.

It's probably not saying you should seek out trouble, but is saying don't give up when things don't turn out to plan, learn by your mistakes, don't be driven into adopting the selfish view of 'I tried that once and the ba****ds only took advantage of me, I'm not getting suckered again'.

Have the courage to love, keep on building your skill and your ability to know what's right in a given situation. Put your best foot forward again and again....

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LaffingRain
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Re: Jesus said love thine enemies
Reply #9 - Mar 16th, 2008 at 11:41pm
 
betson wrote on Mar 16th, 2008 at 9:52am:
Greetings, 

talking about puzzling predicaments, Jesus also said to turn the other cheek.
So how do we balance PUL and cheek-turning? 50% of the time for each?
Juditha, I bet you don't do 50% cheek turning, do you?
I bet we'd all be better off we did that though, as there's only so much one can do! 
Or did He also say to never give up?

Bewildered Bets

Hi Bets..about this subject is we really can't plan ahead what a situation calls for, how to act, but we can count on ourselves to not just react, but listen to the inner voice what the situation calls for, but I would say by listening to the inner voice instead of a fearful inner voice (ego=reaction, usually aggressive and innapropriate)  we listen to whats is being asked of us to be assisting truth of both persons.

my guidance spoke once in the dreamstate to offer gentle nonresistance to truth when it shows up, even if it hurts me.

then theres Ghandi. heres an example of turning the other cheek, but not really. there were salt wars in India, due to British taxes enforced. Ghandi told his men there would be no shooting when the British came for the taxes. (it was too much taxes asked)

the men lined up in front of the building, as I recall while the British had the guns and stepped to enter the building. the British were not instructed to fire on the Indians as they had no guns, but they stood up to them and forced the Brits to push them out of the way, each one. They soon grew tired of pushing each man to the ground who stood guarding the salt. just wore them out. they were simply standing on their truth, to be free of unfair taxation and soon after this peaceful demonstration so to speak, where little blood was drawn, they became free of the unfair taxation of their only means of livlihood in India.

thats the best example I can think of turning the other cheek and still making a statement of truth.
love, alysia
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