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Why are only humans concerned with death and ALife (Read 10747 times)
vajra
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #15 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 12:15pm
 
I guess T that it's worth pondering a little about the nature of self interest, and the rules that underpin existence. Especially the idea that even if there was no prospect of continued existence after death that it still makes sense to live through love.

One way of looking at it is that love is in a sense the highest or most sophisticated form of self interest there is. We start by deferring gratification for longer term gain, but in the end may come to realise that in life any pursuit of gratification for its own sake leads to suffering.

It's presumably species dependent, but my personal experience is that many animals have both quite decent intellects and  are more than capable of projecting future events - and getting scared of what they see coming. They suffer this way too.

The difference is that they seem better able to rest in the moment, and go with flow - presumably because they do less thinking which seems likely to do with less intellect. But they do get nervous and neurotic and need love too (thinking of a cat) so they presumably grasp/project too.

There's times I wonder about the value of intellect in that it creates the human monkey brain and all the striving, grasping and suffering that entails in the untrained state, but I suppose that it's potentially the means of helping us to overcome the fear it created that makes us grasp too, and is one step up on Jacob's ladder. Maybe this is just the apprenticeship!!

Animals seem insofar as their intellect allows to be bound to the selfish view, their intellect seems not sufficient to enable them potentially to transcend this. There's other ways of getting there, but we can as above figure out very complex views on where our self interest truly lies.

So that with time we can transition from an intellectual position to become something else...
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Terethian
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #16 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 5:34pm
 
The main thought that comes to mind is.... if there is no afterlife....then why are we here? Why do we exist?

Why we exist is a question I could ask either way.
No one can truly answer that question.
No human mind can comprehend something coming from nothing.
Or something simply having always existed.
It does not seem logical. Theories... hypotheses... this is all that we have and will ever have in this world.

Why are we here?
Are we simply an evolved form of animal?
Are we the finest creation of God, made in his image?
Are we ourselves all connected, one etheric God-like being, on Earth to explore and become more?

These things are certain...
1. This planet is the only planet with life as we know it in this solar system. Oh there could be traces of life but none to the extent of Earth.

2. We also know for a fact that the universe is huge. We know there are other huge planets and other "life giving" stars.

Did this God create all of this? Did he make a bunch of other planets and "MESS UP" several times till he got it right with the Earth?
Did we just happen out of pure happenstance? A reaction from many years of evolution and amazing explosions?

To most people the idea of a God seems more rational than some explosion.
Perhaps humans have evolved just like they say....
Perhaps humans have evolved beyond the need for a living body already?
Perhaps once our body dies our consciousness has evolved to a point beyond the norm and continues.
Or perhaps every living thing has this consciousness, this spirit.

Or perhaps we are just globs of living tissue with little purpose than to stay alive as long as we can.

One thing is for sure.... The answer is not going to come by itself.
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B-dawg
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #17 - Feb 18th, 2008 at 6:04pm
 
Quote:
The main thought that comes to mind is.... if there is no afterlife....then why are we here? Why do we exist?

Why we exist is a question I could ask either way.
No one can truly answer that question.
No human mind can comprehend something coming from nothing.
Or something simply having always existed.
It does not seem logical. Theories... hypotheses... this is all that we have and will ever have in this world.

Why are we here?
Are we simply an evolved form of animal?
Are we the finest creation of God, made in his image?
Are we ourselves all connected, one etheric God-like being, on Earth to explore and become more?

These things are certain...
1. This planet is the only planet with life as we know it in this solar system. Oh there could be traces of life but none to the extent of Earth.

2. We also know for a fact that the universe is huge. We know there are other huge planets and other "life giving" stars.

Did this God create all of this? Did he make a bunch of other planets and "MESS UP" several times till he got it right with the Earth?
Did we just happen out of pure happenstance? A reaction from many years of evolution and amazing explosions?

To most people the idea of a God seems more rational than some explosion.
Perhaps humans have evolved just like they say....
Perhaps humans have evolved beyond the need for a living body already?
Perhaps once our body dies our consciousness has evolved to a point beyond the norm and continues.
Or perhaps every living thing has this consciousness, this spirit.

Or perhaps we are just globs of living tissue with little purpose than to stay alive as long as we can.

One thing is for sure.... The answer is not going to come by itself.


*****************
There's a couple of things woth noting here, T...
#1. SETI search attempts have all come up dry. From all directions
we listen in the galaxy, comes the soft crackle and hiss of natural
events, and nothing more. (Compare that to Carl Sagan and his
"billions and billions" of alien super-civilizations.)
Either we're somehow unique (and the only technological species that
has ever existed - an idea I find VERY hard to believe - OR could it be, that civilizations are common as dirt...)
But short-lived? SO short lived, that whatever messages they send out, are only sent for such a brief time that we'll likely never catch the signal?
Could intelligence, be self-destructive by its very nature?

#2. Do a google on "James Lovelock+global warming" and see how
we're probably a deader as a species, by 2100 if not sooner. (Apparently climate change is upon us, and it is too late to do anything about it.)
All this suggests to me, that life in general (and conscious, sentient,
self-aware life in particular) is a sad joke perpetrated by a mindless
universe whose only purpose (if you want to call it that) is the degradation of matter and energy to a maximum state of entropy.
We arer simply a means to that "end", as rather efficient degraders
of our local energy system... self-aware bags of chemicals, going about our business of reducing our surroundings to a maximum state of disorder until we die off and add the collective decaying corpse of our species to the dead pile of organic rubbish which used to be Earth's biosphere, perhaps fertilizing it for  the NEXT round of entropy-increasing lifeforms that emerge on the planet...
The sadly comical thing about it, is how important we consider ouselves
to be, as if we even mattered in the grand scheme of things (such as there is such a thing.)
I wonder how many alien species went down just like us - all the time thinking that they were something "special?" Oh well. We'll never know and they never got to know, either. (And in the end, does it really matter anyway, outside of the pitiful little dreams and silly desires which churn in the fantastically complex, yet oh-so perishable little meat computers we call our "minds?")
Considering all this, what "purpose" does life need to have, that would require an "afterlife"???

B-man
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blink
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #18 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 7:40am
 
[The sadly comical thing about it, is how important we consider ouselves
to be, as if we even mattered in the grand scheme of things (such as there is such a thing.)
I wonder how many alien species went down just like us - all the time thinking that they were something "special?" Oh well. We'll never know and they never got to know, either. (And in the end, does it really matter anyway, outside of the pitiful little dreams and silly desires which churn in the fantastically complex, yet oh-so perishable little meat computers we call our "minds?")
Considering all this, what "purpose" does life need to have, that would require an "afterlife"???

B-man [/quote]

You mean...........we're.........not........SPECIAL?????????????

So, when I see a rainbow.......it's not there just for me?

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vajra
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #19 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 2:25pm
 
Smiley Potentially the biggest whoooooah!!! moment in all of this is that depending on your view absolutely everything that goes on not just in our intellect but in much higher levels of mind as well is very possibly ultimately irrelevant.

Or at least relevant only inasmuch as how we conduct ourselves has implications for our extricating ourselves from the self made and rather uncomfortable realities we've made. That may include everything in this samsaric time/space reality or cosmos - which seems possibly to be maintained in existence by some sort of collective concensus ....
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juditha
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #20 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 5:30pm
 
Hi I  remember my other little darling dog i had as he was a rescued little dog and he was very nervous when i got him,he would just cower up in a corner, so i picked him up and looked straight into his eyes and told him not to be scared anymore because i loved him and he would only ever have love now he was living with me and after that day ,he followed me everywhere in the house and he started to trust and feel safe and most importantly loved,and he was a very happy little dog,i remember what Deanna said to me,your little dog got lucky because he and me found each other.
He lived till he was 15 yrs old and one morning i got up and he was asleep but was having trouble breathing,so i rushed him to the vet and i sat in the vets crying and holding him and telling him that i loved him so much.then when i took him in and layed him on the table,the vet said "I ,m so sorry but he,s dieing,well my heart was breaking and the vet said she would put him to sleep to quicken his ending,when she gave him this stuff i was strokeing his head and  then he wouldnt let go and tryed to fight this stuff and the vet said to me,"He,s fighting it,he does not want to leave you,so she gave him some more.

I looked in his eyes and kissed him on his head and said to him that i loved him and i would never forget him and then i asked dad to come and fetch him,pleading to dad not to let him go to the spirit world alone and as soon as i said that,my little dog died,the hurt inside me was to much to bear,i couldn,t stop crying over him,i loved him so much.

He died on the thursday and i went to the church on the sunday, but before i went ,i said to dad please come through dad and let me know if my little boy is with you and the medium came through and he said"I got your dad here and i,m not sure what he means,but he,s saying that you have got to stop crying because he,s looking after your little boy",after that i stopped crying because then i knew that my little dog was being looked after by my loving dad.

Animals feel love much stronger than humans sometimes and all they ask in return is to be loved also.

Dear Father God Please surround the animal kingdom with your protection of love and light,and please Dear Father God can you send healing to whatever animal is suffering around the world.Thankyou Father.  amen

Love and God bless    love juditha
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Terethian
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #21 - Feb 19th, 2008 at 7:15pm
 
Thanks for the great story. It gives me hope. I languish every day over not knowing what really happens to us.
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juditha
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #22 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 4:02pm
 
Hi Terethian I'm glad that my storie has given you hope, i can tell you with certainty that our spirit does leave our body because i have had an outofbody experience.

Love and God bless     love juditha
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Linh
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #23 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 6:01pm
 
Terethian,

What an interesting thread. The unknown of the afterlife was what propelled me to look for answers many years ago. Hence this site gave me so much hope in life. I refuse to believe that there is nothing after death. If it is so, I should live out a hedonistic lifestyle, instead of trying to live the bland, boring path that we call morality.

mmm.. that leads to an interesting question...

If there were no consequences whatsoever, what 7 sins would you commit? I would like to love more men. Being married to just one doesn't seem natural to me. Aren't we here to experience PUL, so what is the harm in loving more than one man deeply?  now, that would be my heaven....  Shocked hahahha... (don't judge, just thinking out loud)
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Linh Linh petite_001  
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Rondele
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #24 - Feb 20th, 2008 at 11:15pm
 
<< I languish every day over not knowing what really happens to us.>>

Terethian-

Here's an idea......instead of languishing over this, why not get over yourself and do something worthwhile with your time?

Not to pick on you, but there's way too much whining on this board about death and the fear of the unknown. 

The earth was turning billions of years before you were born and will continue to do so long after you die.  So in the meantime, why waste precious time worrying about something over which you have zero control?

Courage is an attribute that is really critical to leading a worthwhile life, and I seriously doubt folks of courage carry on endlessly about their fear of dying.

R

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Starboom
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #25 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 7:36am
 
On the other hand, what is most courageous? To question and doubt the afterlife, for lack of evidence and faith, or to blindly swallow what this board and other sources say about the afterlife? The first can obviously nurture fear, but I've not joined this board to delude myself. Does it touch your belief system in any way when people speak their doubts?
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Terethian
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #26 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 4:22pm
 
Both points are worth noting. There is no reason to worry about death to the point where you stop living....

Yet neither should a human with our intelligence ever stop to question and seek answers.
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JG
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #27 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 4:41pm
 
Quote:
Thanks for sharing that Alan. It was very interesting!

Ceasing to exist is not acceptable. It is not what I consider an option. Each breath I take solidifies my need to exist. True, I see your point that if one ceases to exist then one will cease thinking and needing anything.... yet this is unacceptable.

You do not want to know what terrible things I am capable of if I knew that doing them would make me live forever.

....terrible things.


Terethian,

Your logic is what brought me to this site originally a few years back. I was drawn into this mode of thinking after my grandfather passed away and have struggled with it ever since. Ironically alcohol seems to quell those thoughts for me (I guess I am an alcoholic too  Wink) But seriously, there are two things that keep from from the brink of insanity by overthinking about this....

1. Regardless of your fear of the unknown, which it truly is because you really don't "know" for a fact until you in some way come to terms with the truth, you will face your exodus, so why worry about it to the point of affecting the life you are obviously sill living.

....and....

2. There are too many things around us that suggest "otherwise", meaning not existing after death can be debunked over and over and over and over again. There are too many supernatural unexplained, fanned at by some scientific bull as an answer, things that exist in this world. Prime example: How we got here in the first place!!

So I have become more open minded to the idea that there is SOMETHING after death, because too many compelling things suggest that, but I am not going to beat myself up over a definitive "what" right now, because it clouds the quality of my life that I should be enjoying living.

Today means more to me than anything because I am living it, and if I died tomorrow, then my questions about the future will be answered...........

And if that doesn't help......good luck. Maybe you weren't even looking for help, which I understand as well. Sometimes we are our own therapists without even realizing it....

- JG

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Too much knowledge without proper interpretation is borderline insanity. - JG
 
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Terethian
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #28 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 4:53pm
 
Actually alcohol causes my worries to get worse... I don't drink too often especially since it causes my worry to be amplified. My best friend just got out of jail though so I am probably gonna get drunk with him sometime soon.

Well, I am not giving up on living forever just in case. The interesting thing about "old age" and the decay of the human body over time is that it is due to cells being unable to reproduce more than 50 times. This is because the telomeres which are attached to the cells get shorter every time a cell reproduces. One can try to slow cell reproduction by pumping full of antioxidants but this is not going to stop it from happening. Scientists are even now trying to find a cure to stop and even rejuvenate human cells. In fact, using nano-technology we one group actually has a product that is supposed to do just this! We are talking near immortality.

As long as one does not have an accident or perhaps eats poorly and has a heart attack etc.
Well, there will always be death... yet if you could stop the aging proccess the death rate and life expectancy would SKY ROCKET! This would in fact be very bad for the Earth but I can sympathize with the human need to live as long as possible. I would be willing to never have kids if I could live forever.

Here is the site which talks about cells if anyone is interested. The bottom of the page is the new technology being worked on.
http://www.viewzone.com/aging.html
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Starboom
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Re: Why are only humans concerned with death and A
Reply #29 - Feb 21st, 2008 at 6:57pm
 
Gee, man, I'd be willing to never have kids, just for a normal-length life. Cheesy
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