Roger,

I know you are a skeptic who is wise enough to discern the true dynamics of what has transpired on your thread.  I will reply in the way I would have replied before all the flap and cries for censuring Albert. I will address your question from the perspective of the afterlife principle like attracts like.  This principle is widely embraced both by biblical Christianity (e. g. Matthew 7:2) and by astral adepts.  I want to challenge this principle not because it is incorrect, but because it is too vague and embryonic and needs refinement and supplementation from other spiritual principles that affect one's postmortem destiny.

I will focus on Jesus and ignore gurus and channeled entities that I have critiqued in other threads over the years.  Jesus stresses the neglected insight that words are the least important part of prayer, in part because God knows what we need before we ask Him: "When you pray do not keep on babbling like pagans; for they think they will be heard because of their many words (Matthew 6:7)."  Jesus recognizes that pious words, though necessary, function as bars that imprison us in illusory self-images and give us a simplistic grasp of love that functions like a booby prize which substitutes for the real reward--an intuitive feel for a state of mind that truly transforms and translates into a holy obsession with a lifestyle of selfless service to God and other people.  Debates about PUL (astral or earthly), though potentially helpful, are limited by vagaries and preconceptions that prevent the word "love" from inspiring a lifestyle that makes it real.  Thus, Jesus recognized the importance of other terms (e. g. humility, gratitude, grace) that, at first sight, seem to be additional virtues, though in fact they are manifestations of love.  But we must speak as if there are many distinct virtues to confront the barrier imposed by language to accessing the permanent mood and set of attitudes that cannot easily be expressed in words, but which seem to be a signficant basis for postmortem evolutionary soul progression.

The concept of soul retrievals already implies that denizens of a lower spirit plane evolve with different spiritualities despite the character affinities that initially drew them to that plane.   Some are ready for retrievals and others are not.  Those who get ready are increasingly unlike their "neighbors."   How this spiritual difference within character uniformity is enhanced remains a mystery which requires further astral exploration.    To what extent do seme denizens of a hellish plane begin to make more loving choices on their own?   What role do spirit guides/ saints/ angels/ Christ play?  Better answers to such questions might lead us to a more comprehensive grasp of the ultimate meaning and plan of human existence.  

Among His other roles, Jesus was a prophet.  A prophet's mission is to clarify how each doctrine in one's belief system has merit only if it contributes to a more spiritual lifestyle.  Whenever pre-Christian Israelites or followers of Jesus forgot the relevance of beliefs to concrete service, the validity of their doctrine was temporarily suspended by prophets until the loving purpose of each doctrine was rediscovered and actualized in personal lifestyles.

In my next post, I will discuss Jesus' [and Paul's] teaching about the most elusive of virtues--humility.  I will explain how this virtue is a key to genuine mystical experience and to progress in the afterlife.  I am very busy these days, so it may take some  time to develop the various strands of this  thread.

Don

Alan:

The forum is called "Afterlife Knowledge," not "Knowledge according to a particular set of beliefs."  Would it be fair to say that certain kinds of beliefs aren't acceptable? Plus, if you've been here a while, you'd see that Don isn't as fundamentalist as you think.

If you don't agree with what he says, do like I do when people speak of false gurus and channeled sources.

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but you have some fundamentalist ideas yourself. For example, when you've written about how really contemptible people such as Hitler end up in hell for all of eternity. Even Don will say that such spirits can return to the light, if they make the decision to make the changes they need to make in order to go to the light.

I agree it isn't correct to make statements such as people are a part of a new age ghetto, but despite how offensive this seems, it is less harmful than defending some of the false gurus and channeled sources that get defended around here. Of course two wrongs don't make a right.

My dear Alan,

Apparently, you can't see the obvious.  The principles that govern afterlife progress and retrievals are absolutely central to the purpose of this site.  As a basis for determining afterlife locale, no principle is more widely accepted than like attracts like.  What remains to be determined are (1) the limitations and precise application of this principle and (2) the possible need to supplement it with other principles of postmortem location that have been overlooked or are poorly understood.

Over the years here, countless threads have attempted to clarify PUL and the resulting dialogue has inspired posters to fine-tune their explications of this concept.    Though PUL is not essential to retrievals, it can reportedly be "projected" at trapped souls to facililate their retrievals.  Yet from a practical perspective, PUL is both ineffable and hard to analyze.  Though I have often critiqued these retrieval claims, I applaud this exploration and feel that few issues rival retrievals in importance to a worldview.  I even performed a dramatic and very emotional retrieval which, months later, I only reluctantly concluded was a mislabelled lucid dream.  But my own self-deception does not mean that no one else has done retrievals and I still cling to a thread of hope that I might one day perform a genuine and well-verified retrieval.  To that end, I periodically practice with my complete set of Gateway CDs from TMI.  This thread is devoted to both the like attracts like principle and neglected aspects of PUL.   

Alan, various posters have gently encouraged you to initiate fewer threads to allow longer incubation time for other threads. I concur but acknowledge that your best threads are quite stimulating.  I would also encourage you to read all the responses to a thread before inserting your own input.  That way, your input would be more relevant than it has been, for example, in your misreading of this thread.  Many of your replies betray an unwillingness to carefully engage what posters have actually said or have clearly taken for granted. 

Don

Some food for thought!  At the turn of the 20th century, there was widespread discussion about whether the standard jury system should be abolished and replaced with a jury of lawyers.  G. K. Chesterton argues effectively against this change in his essay, "Twelve Men."  The gist of his objection is expressed by a very provocative paradox: "The more a man looks at a thing, the less he can see it; and the more a man learns a thing the less he knows it."  The instincts of legal specialists get warped by overexposure to legal nuance.  Ordinary people are less jaded and more likely to discern guilt and innocence.   

An analogous point might be made about the spiritual discernment of ministers who are too close to their craft to pray effectively or hear the voice of the Holy Spirit.  The preconceived notions of astral adepts probably prevent them from acquiring breakthrough insights about the nature of the astral territories and the conditions that facilitate progression through them.  But I really wanted to include Chesterton's quote because I think it is particularly relevant to spiritual leaders who imagine they have acquired the elusive virtue of humility.  Humility and its role in mystical experience and openness to astral insights will be the subject of my next post. 

Don

Don,

As for me, "I am so humble that I am proud of it"

alan

Ultra:

With the below kind of thinking in mind, perhaps you should post your multiple Chinmoy links to the "visitor's links forum," rather than using the main forum as a place to advertise, promote, market Chinmoy.

ultra wrote on Feb 28^th, 2008 at 9:54am:

Rremoved for violation of Posting Guidelines

    Demeaning; mocking; defamatory; libelous; or hateful
    An attack upon the beliefs of individuals or groups
    A personal attack on another member or public figure

Removed due to violation of Posting Guidelines.