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Osho and reincarnation (Read 44330 times)
dave_a_mbs
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #60 - Feb 13th, 2008 at 10:06pm
 
Go back 9 posts - It was a remark for Justin who seems to have a problem with me.

I know that feeling like things are coming to an end,. I have the flu and it's a tossup between hoping I'll die quickly, and hoping I'll somehow survive.  Meanwhile, I'm setting up a restaurant and still doing hypnoanalysis -  Next time you come through these parts we should be open. Giancarlo's Mediterranean Restaurant in Morro Bay on Morro Bay Blvd - Anyone else who reminds me that they're on the forum is welcome to a free dessert. Wink

I get the feeling that you are a sustainer of the general thread of life. Arts and humanity - Little more could be desired.

dave


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LaffingRain
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #61 - Feb 13th, 2008 at 10:29pm
 
yes, totally correct, Im the general who takes care of the generalities.. Roll Eyes but say Dave, when one is sick, I noticed the mind is influenced towards more down type thinking, so I wanted to tell u to tell yourself that somebody loves you up there. and get in bed with a good book, maybe some hot cocoa...oh god...im getting off topic again.

look, just do it.  Cheesy
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Justin aka asltaomr
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #62 - Feb 13th, 2008 at 11:53pm
 
  Hi Dave, i have no problem with you as a person.    To be completely honest, i was kind of surprised when you not only defended but promoted certain sources i believe to be misleading and corrupt.   In any case, i like you & and your voice here, i just did not agree with the defense/promotion of certain teachers. 

  Yes, the creation of my tag is connected to your tag, it was a joking retort, a humorous call for moderation and much broader than just the issue of sour or too much overly sweet wine.   

  A call also for discrimination, put in a light and subtle vein.   Not because i dislike or have a problem with you as a person.   Lordy, you can't seem to disagree with people around here without them thinking you don't like them on a personal level.

  Btw, hope you feel better.   I've found that if one really alkalizes the body, they can get over a cold, flu, etc. pretty quickly.     One of the tastier and most effective ways to do this, is to take orange juice and add some fresh squeezed lemon juice in with it, and don't take any foods or beverages anywhere near this time, not for awhile. 

   Orange is acid in its normal state, and lemon extremely so, but when digested right, they are very alkaline reacting and cleansing, because of the large amount of alkalizing minerals (like Potassium for example) and low calorie content (particularly lemon). 

  Or, easier on the stomach, a lot of some kind of melon would help too, and at later meals, just fresh leafy greens with no vinegar or salad dressing of any kind (except maybe a little extra virgin olive oil).
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LaffingRain
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #63 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 12:33pm
 
Quote from Osho:
Your own consciousness has no wounds.
Your own consciousness knows nothing of misery.
Your own consciousness is innocent, utterly blissful.
To bring you in touch with your own consciousness, every effort is being made to detract you from the mind. The mind contains all your misery, all your wounds. And it goes on creating wounds in such a way that, unless you are aware, you will not even find how it creates them….

All our miseries are so superficial-and most fundamentally, they are all borrowed.

And everybody is giving his misery to everybody else he comes in contact with. People are talking continuously about their miseries, about their troubles, about their conflicts. Have you ever heard anybody talking about his joyous moments? About his dances and songs? About his silences and blissfulness? No, nobody talks about these things. People go on sharing all their wounds, and whenever you are talking about your misery to somebody, without your knowing, you are transferring a miserable pattern. The person may be thinking that he is only listening to you, but he is also catching the vibe of misery, the wounds.

When I said that you carry other people's wounds, my statement meant that your own consciousness has no wounds. If everybody becomes alert, meditative, there will be no wounds in the world. They will simply disappear. They will not find any house, any shelter. This is possible. If it is possible for me, it is possible for everybody.
_________

Osho is talking about a state of being. a state of consciousness Dave mentions as Sammadhi. (spelling?)

this is the future of mankind's state of consciousness. it is also a state of non-duality or balanced brain activity, the left to the right.

Ohso is right on, however he is not discrediting any other teacher or guru while he discusses this blissful type of consciousness that we are to realize ourselves to be. he says if it is possible for him, it is possible for everybody, that is his punchline, which makes him to be perceiving correctly. (my opinion)

perception is what we do here. perception is not the whole of knowledge. words are symbols of our own perceptions, that we share together in communion, or simple communication.

We do indeed share each other's wounds, and misery does love company. but we can move beyond that sharing of misery to something even better to share, in the near future if I can be so bold to say that. talking about PUL. btw, speak of JC, theres one who shared our wounds without much complaint, for we went on to think about his death so much, we shared his wounds too, through stigmatism, and mental ways, when we should have concentrated on his resurrection point he was trying to make from the beginning.

he came to give us life abundant, not death.

personally, I took on my stepfathers wound. it got made whole. I perceive that as destiny. I can see destiny as merging into the world, collective consensus area, where this is taking on the wounds of the world.
the way I reconcile this to reincarnation, is to go forth on the premise, We are One. Whether I want to be here or not, we are one in this regard, to share our misery or our joy, then this is free will, which one to share.

then, I would say to go into a nonduality 4rth dimension, Samadhi, enlightenment, ascension, whatever, "the end", to enter there is to choose to enter there, by graduating from the necessity of taking on another's wounds, thus creating more wounds by identifying with pain and separation from the heart of god, that blissful life abundant, Osho is telling us, is our inheritage.

as to reincarnating, this can be seen to be taking on wounds, yet it can be seen to be entering a movie set the same and taking on a role, as in entering a movie house, there is a beginning, a middle point, and an ending to all movies.
while in the movie, one becomes engrossed in the plot and identifies with the hero or the heroine, exercising their emotions and mental areas.
then when the movie ends, we get up, walk outside, and go home, but the memory lingers of the movie we just got out of.

I can view our lives as memories, and each new baby as a brand new consciousness, ready to absorb life's experiences. I can also view that there is a body before me that is part of god's heart and life that has lived in another flesh body and whose memories are kept in the akashic records for it's point of re-emergence into All That Is, god, home, starting place.

split mind is what we are talking about. the time will come, we all come back together within one mind, and for awhile, we may experience this wound carrying thing, we develop compassion this way.

there is one new thought here, that is of the question of new souls born. none of us can know how that occurs, but we do note a population explosion of bodies.

if the body is nothing and temporary, and dies, while we continue on as our snowflake selves, and even in our oneness, the same, then this mystery of new souls has to be relegated to a creator and to that state of blissful awareness, where it simply doesn't matter that we don't have all the answers yet, because that state of awareness of being alive and well, and in PUL, means we have gained our soul groundedness and can afford to be patient with one another.

I forgot, those others in my disc, who are me, they too, have life eternal, and life just keeps this expansion process whether materializing through the flesh or remaining as nonphysical beingness.

thats why, being so creative, we can create a fluid higher vibrating body of form around ourself within the astral layers. and the reason I saw my mother and grandmother in their younger bodies, versus the way they looked when they died. (they were real, my perception and experience. which in no way invalidates the people that they had been in another movie set, who also have their individuality in their disc.

it also explains how I perceived and experienced intrinsic being as an orb of light on one occassion, where I did escape the confines of my now body, yet retained nonphysical sensing of sight, hearing, etc. what a trip.

love rules, good post Desert. Wink
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betson
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #64 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 6:13pm
 
Desert's gone, Alysia.  Huh

He was run off by a gang of belligerent bellicoses who beat him up with their all-too-familiar verbosity.
Individually these gang members are wonderful fellows, but put them together and their contentious combativeness is enough to make one want to seal them all up in a back alley called "Off-topics." They do not bring out the best in each other and are resorting to repetition of the same comments they make in many of their other posts.

This community needs diversity of opinion, not shattered lights hammered down. How many more are you going to run off 'your turf,' guys?  Undecided

Very Angry and Sad Bets  Angry Angry
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare
 
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LaffingRain
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #65 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 6:27pm
 
don't kid yourself Bets. Desert is still reading, as he was just in my inbox today. if he's still reading, he's still here. however, I'm the one should be leaving, not him!

lol.  listen everyone, I was told by spirit if we just give our heart to one another we can settle our differences. so, hmmm.....I just checked, I still have a beating one.. Undecided Kiss

now, let us proceed in a balanced manner, using both the left and the right hemispheres of the brain while we still have a brain!

love you guys
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blink
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #66 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 6:30pm
 
Alysia, that portion of the Osho passage was my favorite. I'm glad you pointed it out:

Your own consciousness has no wounds.
Your own consciousness knows nothing of misery.
Your own consciousness is innocent, utterly blissful.
------------------------------------------------------------

This, to me, is the truth when consciousness is expanded by meditation or by acceptance of life and love.



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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #67 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 9:14pm
 
Quote:
Alysia, that portion of the Osho passage was my favorite. I'm glad you pointed it out:

Your own consciousness has no wounds.
Your own consciousness knows nothing of misery.
Your own consciousness is innocent, utterly blissful.
------------------------------------------------------------

This, to me, is the truth when consciousness is expanded by meditation or by acceptance of life and love.




hey Blink, yes this has a lot of meaning for me too. I relate it to the experience of molestation. when the miracle of healing occurred (retrieval/forgiveness) seeming from outside my C1, but through me the power of god, that forgiveness, my wound was healed spiritually speaking, but the mental area would take a few more years to catch up, if you know what I mean. I knew there had been a miracle of forgiveness, but I didn't understand it exactly why PUL had taken me over to forgive...I wouldn't be having to know everything at once mentally.
____

since this thread brings up the issue of reincarnation, I looked up something from Urtext of ACIM. the Urtext is the unedited version of ACIM, where J is speaking with the two psychologists. this exerpt is from the teachers manual of ACIM.
Quote:
Does this mean that the teacher of God should not believe in reincarnation himself, or discuss it with others who do?  The answer is, certainly not!  If he does believe in reincarnation, it would be a mistake for him to renounce the belief unless his internal Teacher so advised.  And this is most unlikely.  He might be advised that he is misusing the belief in some way that is detrimental to his pupil's advance or his own.

  Reinterpretation would then be recommended, because it is necessary.  All that must be recognized, however, is that birth was not the beginning, and death is not the end.

Yet even this much is not required of the beginner.  He need merely accept the idea that what he knows is not necessarily all there is to learn.  His journey has begun.
      The emphasis of this course always remains the same; - it is at this moment that complete salvation is offered you, and it is at this moment that you can accept it.  This is still your one responsibility.
Atonement might be equated with total escape from the past and total lack of interest in the future.  Heaven is here.  There is nowhere else.  Heaven is now.  There is no other time.  No teaching that does not lead to this is of concern to God's teachers.  All beliefs will point to this if properly interpreted.  In this sense, it can be said that their truth lies in their usefulness.  All beliefs that lead to progress should be honored.  This is the sole criterion this course requires.  No more than this is necessary.
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Re: Cayce and ACIM Urtext & reincarnation
Reply #68 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 9:24pm
 
I'm putting this up here regarding what J is saying about Cayce because I thought perhaps Justin would be interested. I remember Justin and I had a discussion about Cayce. Justin was kind enough to straighten me out that the man was not a saint as I'd thought. however, he was directly a follower of J. Here in this Urtext of ACIM, (not found in the published works of ACIM) we have J talking about Cayce.
________

Because Cayce was a somewhat erratic listener, he was compelled to correct his own errors at very great length, and not always adequately. Consider the basis from which he started, when he began with "yes, we have the body." It is noteworthy that in all these readings, a large section was actually devoted to the body, even though he usually concluded with the caution that the body cannot be healed by itself. It would have saved an enormous number of words if he had always begun with this.

Cayce and his devotion to me are in no way underestimated by the realization that he worked under very great strain, which is ALWAYS a sign that something is wrong. One of the difficulties inherent in trance states is that it is very difficult to overcome the split which the trance itself induces through the medium of communications made while in the trance state. Cayce's whole approach put him in a real double-bind, from which he did not recover. When he spoke of a dream in which he saw his own rather immanent reincarnation, he was perfectly accurate. He was sufficiently attuned to real communication to make it easy to correct his errors, and free him to communicate without strain. It is noticeable throughout his notes that he frequently engaged in a fallacy that we have already noted in some detail: namely, the tendency to endow the physical with nonphysical properties. Cayce suffered greatly from this error. He did not make either of the other three. However, you will remember that it is this one which is particularly vulnerable to magical associations. Cayce's accuracy was so great that, even when he did this, he was able to apply it constructively. But it does not follow that this was a genuinely constructive approach.
(the full page of this reference is found here: http://courseinmiracles.com/urtext/chapter_3/section_3.htm
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blink
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #69 - Feb 14th, 2008 at 10:36pm
 
Don't be mad, Bets. If this is the worst they can do, well blow me down with a feather!

You know, boys will be boys...

Love on 'ya, blink Smiley


betson wrote on Feb 14th, 2008 at 6:13pm:
Desert's gone, Alysia.  Huh

He was run off by a gang of belligerent bellicoses who beat him up with their all-too-familiar verbosity.
Individually these gang members are wonderful fellows, but put them together and their contentious combativeness is enough to make one want to seal them all up in a back alley called "Off-topics." They do not bring out the best in each other and are resorting to repetition of the same comments they make in many of their other posts.

This community needs diversity of opinion, not shattered lights hammered down. How many more are you going to run off 'your turf,' guys?  Undecided

Very Angry and Sad Bets  Angry Angry

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Justin aka asltaomr
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #70 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 1:35pm
 
  Hi Bets,

I have come to consider that perhaps there has been too much focus on "speaking against" and not enough speaking for.   I'm speaking for myself mostly.   

At the same time, when i feel moved too, i will speak in a critical manner regarding certain sources.  I don't believe that this innately wrong, destructive, or the like because it was something my Teacher occasionally did.  If it was good enough for him, then its good enough for me, i just have to make sure that i'm coming from a similar space. 

  It can become destructive when it becomes too much of a focus, too much of an attachment, if "self" is too involved. 

  I know i have spoken critically of Eastern beliefs here and there in a general sense, but truth is i highly respect and agree with much of what Buddha taught, particularly in relation to attachment and suffering, though i wouldn't say i completely agree with all teachings connected to him.

Anyways, i guess what i am saying is that i will try to tone it down in regards to speaking against and try harder to speak for in a more positive sense.  And by "positive" i don't mean necessarily, fluffy feel good p.c. words, but focusing more on what i believe and why and not at the detriment or focus of what i see as off, limiting, harmful, etc.   

Ironically, this last issue is one of the major issues i have with a certain channeled source that i've very occasionally have spoken critically about.   I've been, and this latter source is, too polarized.
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Justin aka asltaomr
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #71 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 1:39pm
 
Grin  Alsyia...  why do i get the sense that on some level, either consciously or more likely unconsciously, you are trying to bait me with the above?   

  Well, all i can say is, what does last reply have to do with either Osho or reincarnation?   

  I may start a thread in the OFF TOPIC section in response to some of the issues you brought up, in a more general way regarding what the body is and means to the Soul and Spirit, and relate that to the Cayce readings to some extent.
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Justin aka asltaomr
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #72 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 2:00pm
 
Quote:
Don't be mad, Bets. If this is the worst they can do, well blow me down with a feather!

You know, boys will be boys...

Love on 'ya, blink Smiley



Thanks! ...i think...  Huh Undecided Wink

  Yes, us "boys" sometimes need to be put in our place by the wiser and more intune women of the world.   Personally, i would like to think its a two way street myself but....

  Well Blink, you have inspired me to start a thread in the off topic section regarding Yin/Right brain/Feminine/women expression and way of being and Yang/Left brain/Masculine/men expression and energy.

  Because, truthfully i sense more than a little of the "us women know better and are better than men", kind of vibe going on with your above quote.    I'm not saying it is, but it could be construed as another form of "judgment" which is something you seem to speak against somewhat consistently.

  I would like to put that in perspective and bring both more of a balance to it, and yet to get a a clearer understanding of the differences in expression and trends in tendencies so we can better recognize imbalance and projection in ourselves.




  Btw Dave, funny enough, i started showing symptoms of the flu towards the end of yesterday myself.   My wife and most of the people i work with on a daily basis, have already been and/or still sick, so it seems to be quite a virulent and adaptable strain.  I've held out for a long while, but i guess its time for me to practice of that alkalization stuff i preach eh.   Grin   I took the day off from work to rest, and to practice the above, and it already seems to be running scared.  (crosses fingers)

  Part of my job is fairly physical, and plus i don't want the risk of my client to get re-sick (nor my other client).  I have to do daily stretches with a youngish boy who has C.P. really bad.   Takes me about 45 mins. to do, and because of the nature of the process, is physically difficult.  Definitely can work up a  sweat.     Plus i carry him around here and there.
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #73 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 2:18pm
 
Justin -
Hey - no problema. -

Good dietary advice. Avocado and cottage cheese seem to do better than my usual spicier fare. This bug's a real bugger - Wink

My essential point is simply that we can, and should, learn from anything, and that just because I don't like, understand, or feel I can tolerate some other person's trip through reality, that doesn't mean that they are worthless. I recall that when hanging a picture I often get a quick lesson about how to hold a nail - usually by whacking my thumb.

Hope it's all a false alarm for you!

dave
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Re: Osho and reincarnation
Reply #74 - Feb 15th, 2008 at 3:45pm
 
no I don't have time to bait you Justin, I thought of you when I was reading the material because of our discussion so long ago about Cayce. I felt then that I always loved Cayce since I read him as a teenager. I admired his work a great deal and wondered about someone like this, that he worked so hard to help others at the expense of his own self.

so I admired him and wondered about his soul. somehow theres a connection between him and yourself. don't know what it is, but I assure you, I'm not looking to bait you but I do feel you have some of his knowledge inside you, and that you either knew him or was living around him as a part of his disc, I'm just not sure but that u might even be his next incarnation. but I'm certain to get laughed right off the board for saying that.

take care, alysia
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