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Labority supposed virtual reality induced OBE? (Read 2816 times)
Alan McDougall
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Labority supposed virtual reality induced OBE?
Feb 5th, 2008 at 4:11pm
 
HI Guys

What is your take on these experiments?


Supposed virtual reality induced OBE

Last year, two research groups induced out-of-body experiences in healthy participants with virtual reality techniques. The experiments, described last August in studies by H. Henri Ehrsson and Olaf Blanke and colleagues in Science, demonstrate that out-of-body experiences, previously confined to the realms of psychiatry, fiction and the occult, occur when the normal processing of sensory information is disrupted. This research provides an important tool to understand how the feeling of self is generated by the brain.

The participants wore virtual reality goggles connected to video cameras that filmed the participants’ backs. Thus each participant saw his or her own body from the back ... To complete the illusion, the scientists used two plastic rods to stroke synchronously, for 1 or 2 minutes at a time, the participant’s back and the back of the virtual body. Next, the participants were asked to complete a questionnaire to evaluate their subjective perception of the illusion. Amazingly, they reported feeling as if they were being behind their physical bodies and looking at them from this location. The illusion failed when the stroking was asynchronous.


Case Two

tickery
Researchers equipped subjects with virtual-reality goggles that showed images from a stereoscopic video camera setup—two cameras spaced like a pair of eyes. When placed behind the person wearing the goggles, the cameras acted as a "virtual self" that looked at the subject's back.

As subjects watched themselves from behind, an experimenter prodded their chests with one hand while prodding the air just below the cameras at the same time. Because subjects could see the experimenter's hand but not the spot it was poking, researchers said subjects felt as if they were being poked in the chest—outside of their body.

“This was a bizarre, fascinating experience for the participants," Ehrsson said. "It felt absolutely real for them and was not scary. Many of them giggled and said ‘Wow, this is so weird.’”
Where's my body?

But the researchers didn't stop there. They also performed the experiment with cameras behind a wigged mannequin to test the brain's limits of self-perception.

"When they saw a bodily shape, they still felt it was them," said Bigna Lenggenhager, a psychologist also with the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. She explained that touching both the fake body and the real body at the same time tricked many of the subjects.

"They felt a touch was there but couldn't pinpoint it," Lenggenhager said, noting that some felt as if the mannequin was their own body.

Going even further to test the effect, researchers removed subjects' goggles and asked them to move to where they believed they were standing during the experiment. Almost every time, she said, they overshot and walked back to their virtual self's location—and not where their real or simulated body was situated.

"They didn't localize themselves where their real body was," Lenggenhager told LiveScience.com. "Where the camera was is where they believed they were."

Hammer time
Ehrsson's group also tested the technique's limits by swinging a hammer just below the camera setup, or virtual self. By measuring how much subjects sweated—a bodily response to fear—Ehrsson said he showed that subjects felt threatened by the hammer swings.
Lenggenhager noted that the setup, while an extremely useful tool for testing the limits of self-perception, is only the beginning of better research on the brain.

"We've shown the body and self is somehow separate in the brain, even though we didn't invoke a completely realistic [out-of-body experience]," she said. Lenggenhager thinks the next step is to monitor the brain's activity with special electrodes during similar experiments. By doing so, the researcher and her colleagues hope to better understand which regions of the brain are responsible for self-perception

alan
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Alan McDougall
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Terethian
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Re: Labority supposed virtual reality induced OBE?
Reply #1 - Feb 8th, 2008 at 1:55pm
 
I look at this as simply an illusion. If one walks into this type of experiment with the understanding that they are wearing a head piece they can pretty much laugh at any experiment is performed because they know what they are looking at is simply a different point of view and not in fact where the consciousness "is" The consciousness is still within the body staring into the head unit. This type of test proves nothing except how easy people can be fooled with an optical illusion.

I own a head tracking VR head set and It's really wierd to play games with too. Imagine playing a game in which you have to move your head and look directly at a target to shoot it. This isn't realistic at all since in real life you would have a gun and would be able to look slightly to side of the actual object and still shoot or even completely to one side and shoot blindly. (worked for robocop why not me!)

My cheapy Head set: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/virtual-reality-headset-review.ars
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Labority supposed virtual reality induced OBE?
Reply #2 - Feb 8th, 2008 at 4:21pm
 
Terethian,

Your Quote

Quote:
I look at this as simply an illusion. If one walks into this type of experiment with the understanding that they are wearing a head piece they can pretty much laugh at any experiment is performed because they know what they are looking at is simply a different point of view and not in fact where the consciousness "is" The consciousness is still within the body staring into the head unit. This type of test proves nothing except how easy people can be fooled with an optical illusion


Really nicely refuted and debuncked in one short paragraph.

alan
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Alan McDougall
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spooky2
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Re: Labority supposed virtual reality induced OBE?
Reply #3 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 12:26am
 
Quote Terethian:
"The consciousness is still within the body staring into the head unit."

It is not that simple. The consciousness isn't a bodily thing which is located somewhere like a body is. Therefore, we can't say it is in a body, or anywhere. We only can notice where we feel we are located.

And yes, it doesn't prove anything, except you can do funny things with VR. Actually, in some exercises to achieve an OBE, you do almost the same things through imagination, as it was done here through technical means. So, it might be that this can trigger an OBE.

Spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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hawkeye
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Re: Labority supposed virtual reality induced OBE?
Reply #4 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 7:18pm
 
Skip Atwater summed it up at the end of the article when he stated that "this study falls short of reproducing "full-blown" out-of-body experiences...... and also "People who have had such experiences (OBE's) seek no explanation because these complete dissociations from the physical body are so vivid as to convince the experiencers that what is happening to them is more than a hallucination or an illusion." (Taken from "what is enlightenment" Feb-Apr 2008 issue, Out of Body.Be back soon by Paul Bloch and Tom Huston. Page 31-32.)
I know my OBE's are very real and I hold no doupts at all.
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Terethian
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Re: Labority supposed virtual reality induced OBE?
Reply #5 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 10:21pm
 
Ok since I have the equipment anyways I will do some tests myself, tape them and post them on my youtube when I get the chance. It will be interesting and I am sure someone will be interested in watching someone using VR. My youtube link is listed as my web site for this user name. It will take me a little while to put the video together.

Anyone have any suggestions for test ideas?

EDIT: I can't do this right this second, I need to borrow an additional video camera and figure out some test ideas.
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asethaa
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Re: Labority supposed virtual reality induced OBE?
Reply #6 - Feb 11th, 2008 at 11:29pm
 
Good luck with this, man. I want to see wonderful results!

Home in on me or my post. I've just written 3 numbers on a piece of paper sitting on my computer. What are they?

-Chuck-
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Labority supposed virtual reality induced OBE?
Reply #7 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 1:29am
 
You Guys are right not in one wildest imagination is this virtual reality an OBE but simply an illusion of vowing self from the immediate outside.

alan
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Alan McDougall
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hawkeye
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Re: Labority supposed virtual reality induced OBE?
Reply #8 - Feb 12th, 2008 at 1:19pm
 
asethaa, it would seem that you may have some confusion between OBE and remote viewing.
Joe

alan, I am not sure what you are saying but if what you just wrote is that you think the OBE's are just imagination.. then you are just so wrong. Having had had OBE's I know that they are real and in present time reality. Anyone ever having had an OBE or in some cases a NDE will confirm.
Joe
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