First off I am new to this forum yet this is my um... third post I believe. Let me say I am here because I fear death. If there is an afterlife and reincarnation bit I would probably not come back because the fear of death is not fun at all. I am a techno geek though heavily into role play fantasies so if the afterlife does not let me live those out I will be forced to return regardless of my fear. I need to be able to log in and be Terethian the noble High Elven cleric which fights for justice and peace throughout the land. (which is consequently filled with monsters to kill and get experience points.)

Now if the afterlife let's me put together a group fantasy party in which we can basically enter a dream like state together with other consciousnesses (most likely the consciousnesses of NERDS like me) I would like totally meet with them several times a week for roleplay sessions in true dungeons and dragons style except in true lucid dreaming greatness.

Wow... so yeah... bottom line if I can't get my fantasy kick in the afterlife I'll be back right away. lol.

Dave quote: If there is even the tiniest little urge remaining, then it will redirect us into another incarnation. After all, God gives us what we want - whether we want it or not - So watch out what you wish for!
____

I'd say so Dave. at different times of my life, I'd ask for something and god would give it to me if I was serious. then, darn it, I wouldn't want it at all. god would say well, you left out some details of what you wanted. so I learned, I dont really know if when I get what I think I want, I'll still want it, so I let some higher source lead me. I don't make mistakes that way. its true, have to be careful what you wish for. its because of free will. keeps you hopping though, this having a life business.

In line with your thoughts, I am in agreement with another chap name of Cozzolini, who happens to have a more scientific view, rather than emotional view, of our afterlife areas. since I have been most of my life an emotional gal, it was no small feat to read Cozzolini but the benefit was immense, in that here was another viewing point quite foreign to me but after the 3rd time through I understood most of it.
Cozzolini agrees with Dave. and don't forget R, while you're reflecting on our afterlife areas, Dave works with his spooks..from that perspective, he most likely has much insight to offer us here on the board. Dave is someone I could re-read each post and come away with something different each time.
my god, I wish we could get paid for what we're doing here. we'd all be rich I'm sure. but we are rich when we share.
Cozzolini says for simplicity, we use a 7 layer plane construct, even though it's not quite that black and white. you've all heard the term 7th heaven?
theres some grist there. at the 7th highest level of our afterlife he would say is the merge with god level, where complete unadulterated bliss is attained.
on this level no reincarnation is entertained, after all, you have everything you ever needed and are attached to nothing at all, just one with god. there eons can go by, still, you are in bliss.  so a couple of eons go by and he says if while floating there as this little spark of god, this little unit of consciousness has any thought at all, it begins again, a cycle of lives. this can be such a thought as a little desire to awaken from this bliss and seek an adventure perhaps. immediately the soul is drawn into a circle of it's mates who are also with a single desire, or a single wish to become.

there, they draw up plans and plots, and there is no limit to human dramas which can be drawn up. why? just ask yourself why not? all these others would be like a disc of players. also a soul can join somebody else's disc upon occassion there will be graduations from one disc to another. as well, you will see disc blinking out of this universe and blinking into another universe, if everything that can be gained here, has been gained.

when the overview is gained, all the cards are on the table, it turns out to have been worthwhile. we have to keep in mind Monroe's school of thought. C1. what is C1?
by definition it means a limited type of perception. we cannot see the whole picture until we do the merge with god, then we are able to see we did choose to come here.

just to throw in my personal 2 cents..some years before my twins were birthed to me, they came as energy beings to try and get me to come out of my body and play with them. I heard their laughter and knew the sound of it, but did not know why these children spirits were upon me every night.

Years later they were adults, and one day we were all laughing together, and it was dejavous, there it was, that same exact energy signature of the laughter. and I knew, we had lived together before in another time of history. then Michelle recalled a life where we all wore long dresses and walked some grassy knolls...

I have tons of stories, and so little time left to write them!! we live, we want to live, we want to do it ALL!
why is everyone here so down on life?  we can do ANYTHING here because of our joining together to do it. It is going to be a heaven on Earth or I'll eat my hat.

Nanner, I was molested. I retrieved the molester to a higher place of consciousness. I became like an angel to him because I saw his soul needed it. he will never molest another child. I had agreed to do this. the suffering is over for both of us. He may return as my grandchild if my daughter decides upon this.
Nanner, you've lived quite the life. You've overcome much. I wanted to thank you for all that you shared.

R, I think reincarnation is not the same thing as linear life after life type of incarnations. there are sojourns inbetween lives to account for. we don't all have the same number of incarnations. some souls only incarnate one time, and thats enough for them and it's off to another planet. while some really become quite attached to physical Earth, for what it offers; we tend to think of it as addiction or obsession maybe in some cycles. always there is this thing in a person, which says, I know I can do it better, I see where I went wrong, I just need to try a little harder then I'll get it right.
its something inside of us, we want to taste it all and be winners. just to have one life is like having only one potato chip...no can do...
it's not hard to see myself without a body as I was moving about as an orb one time, and once was enough, I might add for that adventure. so if the mind is intact without a body, and indeed, we might notice here, we move outside of our body frequently enough, it's not hard to understand that we have been able to occupy a flesh and blood body before and will do so again perhaps. the body is only some water and some minerals, that return to mother Earth...its a car one drives around...no big thing, don't get attached to it too much, but take care of it well.

love, alysia

Quote:


Yes Alysia - and thank you,  however I am now at the point where I have successfully come to realise that it is "I - the real "eye" that had chosen to live this type of life" and thats a very special step forward, I (eye)  thinks..lol..? My tires  ... lol...

I am so so happy for you that you retrieved the molester to a higher place of consciousness, see I had no idea of how to go about this that way, at the time. So I am very proud of you gal. Anything coulda happened, but you had no fear and you had enough love for the both of you. Thats a very special step forward!

I now really do find that its all about: learning PUL, (which if realisation kicks in what that one word really means entails is very friggin hard to learn to put into place, as you have come to learn the hard way too!) overcoming and recapping the invested emotions learned.

And the end when one can say: I understood the messages, the homework lessons and the gifts I had been given in life, then it turns out to be just as Elisabeth Kübler Ross said: "A graduation party from a school called earth"..

Hugs,
Nanner

    I agree with a lot of what you said Albert, but you seem to missing something key here.   You speak as if we as probes of our Disc are somehow separate from our Discs. 

  We ARE our Disc and vice versa.    While we individually as a probe, may not have to reincarnate over and over again, thousands of times.

  Our Disk is still projecting oft hundreds or more lives into space/time to come to the point of totally transcending same.   

    Our Disk's are "stuck" too, just to a lesser degree than its average probe tends to be in a physical life.  Bruce clearly outlines that it was originally the Spirit self, which got stuck in all this, but after waking up enough, it kind of pulled out to some extent, but still being stuck, starting sending individualized aspects of itself into space/time cycles to complete the process.

    So, while there are some differences between the perspectives, they really boil down to the same thing.   We have Earth lives to help get ourselves unstuck.    Some Discs probably originally became involved, not because they needed too, but because they were originally trying to help unstick other Discs and probe members of same.   

  The Cayce readings talk about how a Soul group came with the Jesus Soul who was their 'leader' in a sense, way back when, to help out those who were becoming ever increasingly stuck.   

Some from this original Soul group of helpers, started to become stuck somewhat themselves, and thus the process of "learning" and multiple incarnations happened for them.   Some of it was addiction, and some was necessary karma balancing, and learning.   

   So while the distinctions aren't completely the same, the whole process and end result is basically the same thing, except that one views it more linearly and the other non linear, but spiritual development is spiritual development and the physical is best catalytic experience for that. 
  We learn to attune to enough Light, and then we don't have to experience it anymore as a Total Self/Soul, but all selves connected to our Disc must be retrieved first, and we also try to retrieve probes from other Discs.

Hi Recoverer-
First, your collection of criticisms of methodology involving hypnosis are excellent.

This is to the point of all research in which we use subjective feelings. Both the experimenter and the experimental subject bring a host of extraneous and confounding data to the situation. Both must see in terms of prior fixations and beliefs, both those instrumental in the clinical situation under test, and those gained by exposure in society. When I was teaching methodology, the mst difficult points were the subtle ones like this.

The experimenter can, by selection of appropriate words and pharases, minimize any suggestions, so that what is obtained relies more on the subject. However, there is always freight carried over from the socia origins of the terms we use. The subject responds in words and phrases learned, together with their contexts, in a social setting, so that social factors enter the situation. Language alone confounds us.

There is no point in trying to argue about the worship of a dead Savior as opposed to the worship of a live guru. The Savior is unavailable, hidden behind millennia of books and revisions, and the guru is hidden behind social circumstances that many of us would prefer to avoid. The key is in the attitude with which we approach our own situation in life, and not the objects to which we point in justification.

That most of the people on this forum have had extremely persuasive psychic experiences does not mean that those experiences can be carried over into the lives of others and accepted unchanged. Even the descritions would differ. Each individual sees reality a bit differently, else we'd all be the same. So too with our metaphysical realities.  It is this diversity that makes this topic so difficult.

If we line up a dozen people, each of whom has had a transcendental experience of a spiritual personage, we would find only a very few lines of correlation, while there would be a lot of dfferences due to innate bias derived by living in society and having diverse experiences, ideas, drives, values, education etc. It is unavoidable. That doesn't mean that any one of those experiences is valid - or invalid. Nor can we tell whether they were obtained by ESP, memories, imagination, falsehood or other means. What we can suggest is that for a dozen people there are a dozen equally fervent belief systems. I've had dozens of people describe visions of saints, Jesus, Mary and assorted other holy manifestations - My aproach is to accept them as valid, because I can't do anything useful by denying them their beliefs. However, I can ask how their spiritual leader would lead them out of their conflicted situation. Often, that's all that's needed.

As for the technicalities of reincarnation, to my mind it makes sense to explain my recollections of evolution, the thousands and thousands of incarnations as hairly little critters, and hulking apelike things, in terms used since Egyptian days - that we work our way up from something like a protozoa - or perhaps a bundle of abstract energy. I've spent weeks going through this stuff, and it convinces me. Theres no particular reason that it should convince you.

It is also possible, and nobody can as yet tell the difference, that we get born as a single shot, one-time-through human, just like we appear to be. But my experiences tend to disagree. Your might tend to agree. - OK - Works for me.

I can feel my mind failing, as words, ideas and concepts flee my aged memory. It's called senile dementia, and there's no known treatment, much less cure. (Alsheimer's is a specific, highly aggressive syndrome of this general condition.) We all get to experience it to some degree. I feel that at the present rate, by the time I die I will lack any higher mental functions whatsoever. Any cognitive activity will be in a primary process modality, because that's all that's left. This is like trying to think while asleep - and is the state I believe we enter as we die and go into the afterlife. But if you don't like that idea, then you can imagine whatever you like - and you'll be just as correct, until one of us discovers how things actually are. What I suggest is more useful at this point is finding a method of dealing with the situation that will serve us in either case.

Unless you can define enlghtenment, I respectfully suggest that you might choose a different term for whatever it is that you mean. Otherwise, it would be more clear to start with a working definition, such as "enlightenment occurs when we turn the wall switch to the UP position".

dave

I think enlightenment needs re-defining. its not like it's some far off goal. enlightenment seems to come most often to the person who gives up trying to find it and just decides to leave it into the hands of a greater power. somebody today said theres no rush.

if a person is in a rush all the time they miss out on whats to be enjoyed in the moment of time given to you, as it can be said tomorrow is not promised to us. that makes each moment precious. one way of praying is to accept you already possess what it is you hope for. therefore if one wants to be enlightened, just see it as already done. this clears the mind of all that teeth grinding action of trying to measure up to somebody else's ideals (cults, limiting type thought systems where everybody is ab libbing their own interpretations)

Faith is what builds mountains..that means you have to come out from among them and go into your closet..it's between god and yourself then. thats where true happiness originates along with sharing what you learned, without being overly enthusiastic about the sharing. we will be misunderstood always. but when you make the contact with that inner Light force all questions are answered there, not on the outside of yourself.
fellowship is good, but can entangle and mislead. thats why it's necessary for each to conclude what enlightenment is for you. Reincarnation was taken out of the bible or never was there. it does say Ye must be born again.
yet if you think about, each day I am born again, into each day. When a peaceful mind is attained it matters little about reincarnation and enlightenment and the process.

its just not a concern because the day is full of joy and peace because something is taking care of us when we give it to god.

one time I asked god what do you want me to say once I get there? I am afraid I am in lack of words.

God said, never mind. I'll tell you when you get there. just start walking.

sounds like a plan.    it really is exciting to live in this century, each of us doing our small part.

Dave, you just reminded me of a cute story I'd like to tell. this is recent history.

a friend just sent me a cartoon where two ducks are yelling at each other 'YOUR MY BEST FREIND! then the other duck is yelling back NA AHH! YOUR MY BEST FRIEND!"

well I moved recently and obtained for myself a slightly obnoxious neighbor. he began to tell me of all his wondrous psychic deeds he had performed to be of service to others. for some reason I was not too impressed but continued to listen to see if I could be of service to him in any way and it's difficult to ignore neighbors on your doorstop even and especially obnoxious ones.

A couple of times he exhibited somewhat frightening behavior; he would move close to my face and reminded me of how an evangelist works to bring a sermon of power to the people. his voice would get louder as he told of his wondrous deeds and I felt my space was invaded as his body circled the room in awe of himself he was.

I sought advice of a friend how to deal with him in nonthreatening manner. my friend, a male, told me what the man was thinking. he said he was thinking I was easy game.

not I became fortified with the truth. here comes the good part. lol.

I never get angry with people because anger doesn't serve me or them. so the next time he called upon me to tell me of his wondrous escapades I was ready. During a break in conversation just before he was ready to invade my space again, I broke in to say, you know what Sam? YOU ARE MY GUIDE!  lol. he looks at me with a dazed look in his eye and it was funny as one of his eyes is glass but you can't tell, it looks real, but for a minute his eyes looked crossed...and he shakes his head no, YOU ARE MY GUIDE ALYSIA!



we did this back and forth for a minute and ended up laughing. he never was obnoxious again from that moment forward.

we really are each other's teachers in that sense. love, alysia