Conversation Board - The omni-potence of god put to the question

Alan McDougall

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The omni-potence of god put to the question
Feb 5^th, 2008 at 3:17am

Hi,

What about these vexing thoughts on the omnipotence of god?

1) Can God make a rock so big that even God can’t move it?

2) Can God make triangles that are round?”
or

3) Can God make circles that have 4 equal sides
at 90 degree angles to each other?”

or
400 Can God kill Godself

I could add many others but leave it to you guys to muddle over.

alan

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Alan McDougall

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Nanner

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #1 - Feb 5^th, 2008 at 5:26am

My answer to all of your 400 questions is equally "YES!" Kiss

The only reason why the human mind uses such "comparisons as you have left here" is because the human mind is yet developed to fully comprehend the "seemingly impossible". Wink

Its all about how one percieves the term "God". I percieve God to be everyone, everything and all there is. So if "all there is" is "all there is" then "All there is" is "capable of doing all there is", regardless of "what it is". Huh

Hugs,
Nanner

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Alan McDougall

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #2 - Feb 5^th, 2008 at 8:25am

Nanna Brilliant answer, brilliant answer to my 400 questions, that I did not ask. Is 4+4=7 therefore, maybe, Einsten said this can occure and who am I to go against this awsome intellect. But if the answer to all those questions is true and god destroyed himself, "existence would cease" and a state of "absolute non existence", come about would it not.

Quote:

My answer to all of your 400 questions is equally "YES!"

alan

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Alan McDougall

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Nanner

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #3 - Feb 5^th, 2008 at 8:51am

Quote:

or
400 Can God kill Godself

Assuming you simply skipped all the other ones in between.

Alright Poohead, you`re in a devious mood today... Grin

I like that.
makes the conversation quite intriging.

Did you however understand that
"all there is"
is
"all there is"?

So therefor if

"all there is"
is,

then there is nothing more nor less than
"ALL THERE IS"

I know what I read and said! ..lol..

Love,
Nanner

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dave_a_mbs

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #4 - Feb 5^th, 2008 at 3:17pm

Hi Alan-
I'd say that you've discovered a class of sets that I call "imponderables". Other members of this group are sets that are not members of themselves, and similar unthinkable thoughts.

Actually, now that I've had a moment to think about it, it's a category that also includes speakers who say nothing at great length, thinkers who postulate a dream and conclude a fantasy, and those who are so dedicated and absolutely certain of righteousness that they cannot be botherd with trivia such as experiential facts.

The interesting characteristic of this group is that no matter what we ask of it, our answers are certainly not operationally correct, but at the same time, they're not even wrong.

I have a big circular fle next to my desk where I usually keep such things Grin

dave

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Alan McDougall

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #5 - Feb 5^th, 2008 at 3:31pm

Dave yes trivia, but a little humor is a good thing, dont you think?

Nanna You really make me Lol untill i want to cry. You are one sharp girl.

Nanna Quoted

Quote:

Did you however understand that
"all there is"
is
"all there is"?

So therefor if

"all there is"
is,

then there is nothing more nor less than
"ALL THERE

Yes there simply is not an isn,t is there. It is is and will always be is god or no god!

IS IS ALL THERE IS

ALAN

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Alan McDougall

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blink

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #6 - Feb 5^th, 2008 at 3:38pm

Alan McDougall wrote on Feb 5^th, 2008 at 3:17am:

Hi,

What about these vexing thoughts on the omnipotence of god?

1) Can God make a rock so big that even God can’t move it?

2) Can God make triangles that are round?”
or

3) Can God make circles that have 4 equal sides
at 90 degree angles to each other?”

or
400 Can God kill Godself

I could add many others but leave it to you guys to muddle over.

alan

Alan, what do you think, God is Stupid or something?

1) Why would God need to move a big rock when He/She can get someone else to do it? He/She's the boss, right?

2) Why would God make a round triangle when He/She has a perfectly good circle to work with? How wasteful is that?

3) Same answer, different version.

4) Why would God need to kill Himself when so many people think He/She is dead anyway?

Isn't it more fun to just disappear from view, showing up unexpectedly on special occasions to make a Grand Appearance?

love, blink

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Alan McDougall Super Member Offline Posts: 2104 South Africa Gender:	Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question Reply #7 - Feb 5^th, 2008 at 4:21pm Brilliant Blink God being the ultimate management ("manage" "men") Get he is boss so why do the work? alan
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Nanner

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #8 - Feb 5^th, 2008 at 8:17pm

I am glad I make you laugh and cry Alan, both I believe will do you a world of good sweet `tart.

I still remain in my stuburn female frame of mind "cause its my prerogative".. Smiley

If you truely believe that God is all there is,
then God is everything and the nothing.

lol.. (are ya laughin and cryin yet)

Nanner

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Alan McDougall

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #9 - Feb 6^th, 2008 at 4:00am

Nanna,

Quote:

If you truely believe that God is all there is,
then God is everything and the nothing

In the biginning there was something, the state of absolute nothingness never existed. But you reply was very clever indeed.

An infinite nimbers of zeroes still equal zero if they could be added together.

alan

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Alan McDougall

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Nanner Super Member Offline Theres only AGAPE Posts: 764 Hamburg, Germany Gender:	Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question Reply #10 - Feb 6^th, 2008 at 4:50am Alan... please "define" the words "ALL THERE IS" for me? Love, Nanner
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Alan McDougall

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #11 - Feb 6^th, 2008 at 9:46am

Nanna,

Emptiness space or void You will agree that a space or void or an empty spaceare real dimensional somethings.

So everything is void/space and everything else. There is no such 'thing" a nothing. Nothing is non-exitenseand this is an impossibleconcept to rap your brian around and you could go crazy trying. I have,

Try to compress the everything I descibedto aninfinitely minute point and then let it vanish from your mind. what is left is nothing, but I am wrong usingthe term "is" bacause "is" denoted asomething and we get stuck in a paradox. So

nothing

.

gone. Got it Nnna

alan

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Alan McDougall

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Nanner

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #12 - Feb 7^th, 2008 at 1:59am

You avoided my question Alan dear. I asked you to explain the term "All there is", not give me a rhetoric on the "nothingness".

There are readers here that can explain the concept of reality much better than I can - they can explain what "matter and antimatter" is, theres even some that are very much versed in meta-physics as well - all I am asking you to explain to me is what you understand under the term "all there is".

Do you find it is: the up and down, side to side, the light and the darkness, the being and the not being etc. or what do you understad under that phrase?

Hugs,
Nanner

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Alan McDougall

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #13 - Feb 7^th, 2008 at 2:46am

You know Nanna I just realized we are trying to define the ultmate mystery and if I could give the abslute correct answer to you I would be god.

Giong into this mystrious area oth thought we meet with the really great minds of the human race battling to answer this most vexing of questions

In 1923, almost a decade after Einstein published his general relativity theory (no longer a theory, of course: now it is a law), the French physicist Louis de Broglie introduced an idea that was even more bizarre in its assertions than Einstein's claim that matter really was a form of energy.

De Broglie claimed that all matter has related to it a wave length and a frequency of that wave, a certain number of wave cycles per second. Not only had humanity learned that matter was not matter, we now had to believe that everything is a wave. Everything—you and I included. Seventy years of experiments have sustained both Einstein's and de Broglie's preposterous, counterintuitive claims.

The floor upon which you stand and the bedrock that supports a skyscraper are 99.999% empty space. What we perceive as solid matter is actually de Broglie's waves separated by open space, made impermeable by invisible, immaterial fields of force that somehow pervade the space. The world simply is not as it seems. A superficial reading of nature finds differentiation and disparate entities — stars and stones and bottled water and even life and death. Reading that same nature at a deeper level reveals that it's all a manifestation of a single underlying unity. I'm on our balcony. The afternoon Jerusalem sun is filtering through the yellow-green finger leaves of a eucalyptus tree planted a century ago to mark the property line. De Broglie tells me the leaves and the light are one. Not poetically — though that also — but physically, they are one.

It took humanity millennia before an Einstein discovered that, as bizarre as it may seem, matter is actually condensed energy. It may take a while longer for us to discover that there is some non-thing even more fundamental than energy that forms the basis of energy. In the words of John Archibald Wheeler, the renowned former president of the American Physical Society, recipient of the Einstein Award and Princeton professor of physics, underlying all existence is an idea, the "bit" of information that gives rise to the "it" of matter.

The substructure of all existence, we suddenly realize, is totally ethereal, an idea, wisdom. Or in Hebrew “emet” — an all encompassing reality. Emet is the ultimate building block from which all we see and feel is constructed. Just as the secondary substructure of all matter is something as ethereal as energy, as per Einstein's fantastic insight, so, the primary substructure of energy is still more elusive. Existence is the expression of an idea, an eternal consciousness made tangible. We are the idea of God.

If we can discover that idea, we will have ascertained not only the basis for the unity that underlies all existence, but most important, the source of that unity. We will have encountered the soul of God.

alan[size=12][/size]

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Alan McDougall

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Nanner

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #14 - Feb 7^th, 2008 at 3:03am

Hey Alan I am glad you wrote it that way. You left a wonderful door open for me.

Quote:

if I could give the abslute correct answer to you I would be god.

We agree upon the fact that "you and everyone else in this realm is a part of God yes?"

Quote:

We will have encountered the soul of God.

Coming to understand that we are encountering GOD every moment of our lives, is the beginning of the new era, which we are all looking for. Wink

For the "LOVE" each and every one of us carries within FOR GOD makes us do incrediable things, we share, we cry together and for others, we do things in the name of God (which ever name he may carry in whatever culture). Considering that above....

..... imagine, when everyone realises that GOD is "ALL THERE IS" Alan. When everyone realises that part of God is in EVERYTHING - no exception -. Animals, plants, in cultures of all nations, the sky, the sea, the earth, space, the sun, the moon, the itzy bitzy mosquito that bit your butt last summer and even that Mr. Bush and Mr. Hussin, the Iraqies, the jews, the germans, the frenchman, the american neighbor, the african fella up the road or the english fortune teller ... etc ......

That means Nanner will accept Alan "just like he is" for Alan is a part of God, and for me to honestly love God, I must honestly accept and love Alan too, or else I am not whole heartedly loving God, but only parts thereof. Wink

Meaning that one takes responsibility not to "harm" that which one loves, right?

Interesting concept huh?

Hugs
Nanner

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Terethian

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Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question
Reply #15 - Feb 8^th, 2008 at 2:53am

Well, let us assume for the sake of this discussion that God exists and is omnipotent.

The simple answer is still yes but to go into more detail:

God can kill himself and yet live again. God can make the impossible, possible. He can even make the possible, IMPOSSIBLE if that is his desire!!!!!

Let us look at what God has done:

(in the Sega Genesis chapter of the bible)
(1:11-13)
"Let the earth bring forth grass"
Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19). Notice, though, that God lets "the earth bring forth" the plants, rather than creating them directly.

So as we can see here God brings plants into existence yet there is no sun yet so either he himself was the light or plants germinated and sprung to life without a single bit of light! amazing!

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Nanner Super Member Offline Theres only AGAPE Posts: 764 Hamburg, Germany Gender:	Re: The omni-potence of god put to the question Reply #16 - Feb 8^th, 2008 at 3:18am Aaaaaaaaaaah - very good point! Quote: Notice, though, that God lets "the earth bring forth" the plants, rather than creating them directly. One can definately see a larger intention here. Thanks for pointing that out, that was very much needed. Hugs, Nanner
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