Some would say Alan that that we can actually perceive in non-ordinary reality is only that part capable of conversion into forms that can be expressed via the symbols and conceptual structure of our thinking intellect. Some that comes across as making no sense at all may just be a case of this not being possible.

I'm no expert, but limits like the speed of light seem to be particular to whatever logic it is that we have agreed it is that underpins this 'normal' space time reality. It doesn't answer the 'why' but we seem to quickly step beyond that reality and these limits in the non-ordinary. Dave's posts on the physics underlying electricity seem to suggest that when we create new (even very temporary) reality with our minds that the rules can be whatever we want them to be. The problem though is that we then have to keep shoving energy into that reality to maintain it's existence.

Whatever concensual agreement it is that keeps this whole samsaric reality of birth, death, afterlife and rebirth in existence while still relative doesn't seem to entail the same limits as our 'normal' C1.

The highest primordial (the only in Buddhist terms) true reality or the absolute being timeless, directionless and not built on individuality and separation seems to operate on a wholly different basis - it's non-dualistic or not even relative, and seem to compute in C1 only at the level of the tendencies like love, creativity and so on that somehow bleed through...

Hi Alan and Bets-  This is one of my favorite topics because it has a great deal to do with gravitation.

Permit me to make a suggestion here - prompted perhaps by one of the nameless science oriented spooks that periodically wander through my inner spaces.

Quantum mechanics tell us that their world is indeterminate, meaning that as we get closer and closer to the nitty gritty of an event we discover that it has a lot of loose ends the wander off into other places. That means that the location of the event is not fixed, but is smeared out over participatory states and other events, so that when we have finally done all the tracing and investigating, we find that every unique event, as tiny a picking your teeth after eating corn, is connected with everything in the universe. The way that this looks to us is that the event is statistically distributed over the entire cosmos.

It also means that if you hire a Quantum Mechanic to work on your car, he can only tell you when it's probably finished, because nothing is known absolutely and for sure.

If we look at a typical "bell curve" that depicts the statistical distribution of some event, we notice that the tails of the curve run right off the page to the right and left. In other words, the statistical distribution of the event is probable, although to only a tiny degree, at any point within the entire universe.

Now if you look in the mirror you will discover another event, your own presence. That too is distributed over all the points of the entire cosmo. Next time that you really feel scattered you might remember this - you are.

Now we have the event and also the observer distributed everywhere at once. Do we need to deal with the speed of light? I say, "No!" - And here's why. The statistical distribution of an event means that at some remote point there is a real and finite probability of the entire event being present at the point. The statistical aspect is made up by the fact that the event is only present for the fraction of existence suggested by the probability curve - so if the probability is 10^-9, then the event will effectively be present at that point one time in 10⁹ times, or one instant out of a billion instants.

This is a sneaky, but statistically valid, way to bypass some of the restraints implied by Special Relativity. The way we avoid Lorentz contractions and light cones is to recognize that the statistical distribution of everything carries the present nature of the thing that's being distributed. What we might expect to get, using this type of vision, is a fractional image, either dim but continuous, or bright, but momentary, or some similar way to express the probability.

Now, let's look at the other way that things are indeterminate. An event can neither be pinned down in space, nor can it be pinned down in time. That means that we also exist at all instants over the entire duration of the cosmos. So, at least in principle, we might go back and watch Werner von Heisenberg shudder at the abuses we've made of his PhD disserrtation on indeterminacy.

Sorry Werner -

dave

Hi, Dave and Bets

Dave Replied
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Dave I like your take on this, what we see especially when first passing into the afterlife is an illussion of our earthly reality.We are sort of eased t the weird strange other realms in the afterlife, to avoid shock to the non-physical mind or soul

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Spot on as  Given enough "time" anything that can happen will happen. The spirtual realm does not run on energy as we conceive it in our universe , because like you stated for it be be sustained new sources of energy whould have to be constantly supplied as you so rightly stated.

Energy in pure spiritual realms as an analogy might be something light cold light of a fire fly, or non-heat   As spiritual beings we vibrate in resonance with the Divine source in the ever changing moment of now non-time.

Thus we resonate everlasting within the vibratory glorious multi dimensional infinite colored lights of God.


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Bets I can but now prefer Bruces approach. I do not like the extreme buzzing and vibration I feel when   going into a concious OBE. Perhaps I still have much to learn from you guys.

alan

since mind is non-localized, to be able to be in two places at once, then time/space itself is the illusionary device employed in C1, CI is partial and limited conscious awareness. then we are electro magnetic units of consciousness, of holographic thought dimension projected outwards and somehow end up generating even more consciousness through the efforts.

its all relative? btw, I have no idea what I just said about electro magnetic. lol.
just that little bit and already I'm exhausted.

I'm working on something. it takes time. theres a friend who is the positive charge (male) expressing as outward manner, the negative.
I am the negative charge (female, think in terms of polarity opposites) and I express outwardly the positive.

blip blip duh...vroom! zzzz...what the bleep?