Hi Nanner - Of course you use a vacuum cleaner - this is the jet age!

That's quite a compendium of historical maladaptions of truth in service of alliteration - or did it go the other way?

Next time I bump into God on the street I'll have to ask her what she likes to be called - meanwhile, howsabout "Bob"? Of course it doesn't alliterate quite as well. - In Aramaic that would be "Allel lu Bob".  I can almost hear it now, like the Morman Tabernacle choir in Vatican Square.

As far as I can see, this whole thing is endless. The solution is to stop doing it. The chasing after the ultimate name of God - hmm Bob, that is -  must ultimately end in silence. How much simpler to handle this aspect of history like the large circular receptable on the floor near me - dump it and start clean.

Besides, lookng at the way all this mess was begun, another perfectly useful and totally valid name of God is "Nanner".

Allel lu Nanner - hmmm - ?

dave

Hey Dave - they have these new little vacume cleaners which "zoom about all by themselves" now..lol..

Blink - I agree for the most part, however the point of starting the thread is to vividly "point out" the many errors in mankind and his/her interpretation. How a dogma manipulated by mankind can become the absolute "reality" for which an indiviual or many individuals will even fight, fuss or kill over.

Its just too easy to ignore the one very important fact:
THE ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES WERE WRITTEN IN ARAMIC, HEBREW AND GREEK.

In the course of my research I am finding in the beginning that the originals were used as a type oppression cause. The "church" was created, people were slaughtered and then the scriptures were eventually translated into other languages. Many many people had the opportunity to "translate" the originals but there were only a chosen few whom dared.
Now looking at the circumstance of the timeframe it must have been quite scarey for the translator - for he wasnt able to translate without having to worry about someone knocking on the door, get my drift? In the rush of things he naturally made mistakes in the translation.

However until that was then corrected by other translators approx. 2000 times - many people had already been killed in the name of God, as back then the Kings and Lords sent their armies out in the name of the church to fight.

Eventually more translations took place and then anyone whom practiced anything other than what had been written in that bible - was burned at the stake without a side dish of a bake potatoe and salad! They were called witches, sorcerers, wizards, devil worshipers etc.

To me its interesting to see that only 1 word had been kept in its original pronounciation: "Halleluja" although written incorrectly, everyone in every language there is today, still pronounces it "identically"...lol.. But yet the names of the people written about has always been modified and also the true name used by whom we call God. You can check this yourself.

Now lets bring that into our reality of today.

Considering the translations were partly incorrect, and alot of names and places were changed, some of the information was added or omitted for the sake of a church government - what does that leave us with? A MESS when people really start to find out! That brings us somehow to the year 2012, as by then the rest of the found scriptures are suppose to be finialized and let out to the public. (Although there are many which are still out there to be found)

In our day and age of technologie its very simple to get the word out. Theres going to be a big clash with the major religions of this world and I believe that the "people" are going to freak out for being lied to over so many centuries.

I firmly believe there is a higher justice in our universe, I believe this justice is filled with unconditional love for every soul not of a certain race etc..

If looking from a christian standpoint I would want to know what the name of my father is whom I am praying to, but what if someone out there told me the wrong name and I believed it without question only to be decieved by man, I`d be angry...
If looking at it from a catholic standpoint I would want to know where they got their infos from,  but what if I found out that the man translating did it wrong, so inturn I followed the biased instructions and was decieved by man, I`d be angry..

And what if a "nation" ends up killing other nations because the church biased governments say that that particular country is bad and in the name of God we have to correct that country -but in reality its because that country holds information which would be devasting to other church governments - if it were let loose.. Hmmm, thats what we are facing right now unless "people wake up and see that most of that which is going on is because for the lack of "unconditional love for thy neighbor".

I think before one can even let a sentence loose over another culture or someone elses religional beliefs they should stay open minded and if nothing else get educated on that before making a judgement. Then half of the problems we have in the world wouldnt be.

Love you all,
Nanner

I wasn't intending to suggest you are a witch Nanner, but now that you mention it....

My take on this stuff is very hard to express. I've struggled before with wondering 'am I missing something' big. But this has eased. So this won't be a very satisfying answer. Maybe others have more to say on the subject.

We in a sense inhabit a moment of awareness, that's all. But as we meditate, study and reflect and gain experience the nature of that awareness evolves with insight and improved seeing. (or the opposite if we're on the ego path) Our 'view' (to use a Buddhist term) evolves.

This means that 'truth' such as it is is relative, and that as we progress along the path we'll come progressively to see higher truths. These can be quite prosaic (see the thread on social illusions I've just put up), or highly esoteric as we awaken to higher realities and start to deploy the insight and deep wisdom that this can if approached correctly bring.

What's ultimately required of us is that we learn, open, and evolve spiritually - that we shed the illusion of ego. What's required of us right this minute is that we work on whatever issues life is presenting us with to best develop our wisdom and compassion - our ability to live through love.

Every one of us gets a custom training course which karma makes sure responds exactly to our needs.

There's no magical high level formula that we need to know. The one requirement is that we take responsibility for ourselves and pro-actively set out down this road of working to become. You already know what to do, and if you get it wrong you'll get lots of feedback which will mean you'll know for the next time.

I'd caution that we're not necessarily required to do exceptional things, just live our lives right. Flowers are fine if they fit the situation, as is setting up a $20m charitable foundation, but just a form of acting if you're just role playing. Actually spiritual materialism in the latter case. (see the Chogyam Trungpa book reference in the thread on illusion)

God/higher mind has it in hand. Our task is to connect with and engage in the natural flow of life. The Tao. Not to meddle out of selfishness and lack of trust, and bugger things up.

We can progress faster if we meditate, study and reflect as above.

If we can do this lightly enough and with sufficient opening we eventually see that we don't actually need a road map. Just keep on asking the questions and life brings the answers you need....

That's very true Nanner. I've written about this before so pardon the repeat, but it brings us back to the cocoon - the ego made system of self sustaining beliefs and orientations we surround ourselves with that ensures that our response to every situation is pretty much wholly predictable. Preconception ensures that we only connect with the data from it that reinforces our view of ourselves as victim, hero, saint, long suffering helper, intellectual - whatever our particular game is based on, although in practice our games are usually much more subtle than these grosser forms. (like say Deanna's churchman)

As result we normally don't perceive the questions being asked of us in a given situation. So the problem  is to create 'opening', or 'seeing', or 'awakening' - whatever term you like. And to then have the courage to act of this seeing. (which is normally accompanied by an intuitive knowledge of what's required of us) We won't necessarily always get it right, but we learn and do good compared to circling endlessly in a self made goldfish bowl.

We've nothing to loose, because if we snooze on watch we'll just accumulate more negative karma and waste more of the chance this precious life gives us to progress.

The first key to this is to create a lighter, or more spacious mind. In our usual frantic state the intensity of mind is normally such that the 'still small voice' of our true seeing is drowned out by the chattering of the ego. The second if we still can't act from the heart without more assurance (in the West we like to test things intellectually) is perhaps to intellectually figure  out why a certain course of action makes sense by applying the love based logic taught by the spiritual traditions rather than the 'gotta get ahead' logic of society.

We progress anyway through trial and error even if we remain unconscious, but it's slower. So 'spiritual work' is important - the meditation (to slow down the mind and create space) and study (so we can figure out how to act correctly) mentioned above.

The other important ingredient is mindfulness. We can know all we like in intellectual terms, but if when situations arise we're not mindful enough to catch ourselves heading off down the old habitual path of the cocoon then it's useless.

So we need to watch ourselves all the time. Meditation helps this - helps us to remain calm, and improves our ability to stay on topic. Its important to avoid getting uptight and guilt filled about this. Often it'll only be after the fact that we catch it. Sometimes the power of the urge to act will be so great that we can't contain it. Other times we'll nip it just as the feeling arises, before we've even had time to attached a rationalised justification for action to it. This feeling arises even upstream of attachment or aversion. It's called 'shenpa' in Tibetan Buddhism.

That's the C1 scene. Working at higher levels of consciousness often as we've been talking about in the 'demons' thread can bring more rapid progress, as can times of illness, suffering and grief that force us into recognition that out beliefs don't stand up. It's in these moments of groundlessness - when we've no beliefs or anything else left or available to cling on to that we get the breakthroughs.

The sense of rawness or emotional unprotectedness that results from partial falling away of the cocoon  (we're not playing from the script any more, but instead are truly connecting with our heart) is the classic sign that something is going on in this regard. Some traditions speak of 'warriorship', precisely because it requires mindfulness, grit and bravery first to see, and then to act correctly.

With enough time (and maybe lives) the intensity of the shenpa fades and eventually we're acting naturally with the Tao or from flow most of the time.

People approaching this state are remarkable to be with. Conversation flows naturally, there's none of the typical sense of it being like a competitive game of tennis. Because they have no agenda to force on the situation you somehow find yourself at ease and likewise not needing to push. Verification in a sense that aggression (lack of love) breeds aggression and vice versa....

All of this is reason why path and spiritual work are so important. Amusing ourselves intellectually with interesting 'spiritual' topics without work is better than nothing but in the end not all that useful...

I'm not too sure about that. For example, how would that apply to the Iraqi people? I'm not trying to make this a political post, I use their example because of all that's happened to them. I don't think the majority of them 'wanted' what they were on the receiving end of.

Ignore it and it will go away? From my own experience I have found this not to be the case. I could understand a balance of some kind, but that kind of balance-tipping seems rather tenuous.

Or are there karmic considerations in your estimation?

Desert

It was in reference to Dave's last posting, specifically the last paragraph.

Thanks Desert for clearifying that for me.   I really didnt know.

And to you Vajra : As Bob Barker would say: "vajra...cooooome oooon down..." (Doesnt anyone remember the good old shows..lol..)

Maybe the fact that multiple persons are "relating to the Iraqi situation" is an indication, that Karma is well on its way, as its course is thank goodness not stopable. Prior to this, everyone kept their nose pretty much in their own backyards.

Ongoing propaganda? Ummm since I live close V - I can`t really say that the neighboring countries had felt the effect of the "proceeding" propaganda prior to the invading of that country. Things dont happen over night. Understand what I mean? Wouldnt we living directly or near neighboring that country have felt the utterance of  the "switched sides, manipulated elections, removed rulers and armed and fermented violence to suit their short term advantage".. Especially if it would have effected the economics of residing european countries.

It had initially been the 9/11 incident that lead europe to believe that there was something fishy going on here in Iraq..Subsiquently a man had gotten "hung" for doing something that other country leaders do "legally"..Bloody hell man, where is the happy medium in any of this?

"Meaning that karma, whether old or recent is now playing a large part in driving events too".
Yes, I understand "but how"?

Hugs,
Nanner

Bet Bets - you`re the one whom taught me at the beginning of my journey here with you guys, with your kind loving words that a human mind must only "think" love to be able to "send" love. So gal - we are sending love clear across the world with every thought we make. Sort of changed my view of using the air- and phonelines inorder to tell someone "I love them"...Now I send it to everyone with my mind and get far more places and most definately quicker every second of the day..

Nanner