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Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea (Read 3762 times)
Desert
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Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Jan 27th, 2008 at 10:48am
 
There are variations on this story mostly in the details but the basics of it remain the same regardless how it's told.

An interesting thing about this story is that when I discussed it with others nearly a couple of years ago I was surprised to hear comments that the turtle should have simply minded his business and said nothing about the sea to the frog.

I'd be interested in the comments by the members of this forum on this little, "fable".
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The Frog in the Shallow Well

A Chinese Fable


Once a frog that lived in a well bragged to a turtle that lived in the Sea.

"I am so happy!" cried the frog, "When I go out, I jump about on the railing around the edge of the well.
When I come home, I rest in the holes inside the wall of the well.
If I jump into the water, it comes all the way up to my armpits and I can float on my belly.
If I walk in the mud, it covers up my flippered feet.
I look around at the wriggly worms, crabs, and tadpoles, and none of them can compare with me.
I am lord of this well and I stand tall here. My happiness is great.
My dear sir, why don't you come more often and look around my place?"

Before the turtle from the Sea could get its left foot in the well, its right knee got stuck. It hesitated and retreated. The turtle told the frog about the Sea.

"Even a distance of a thousand miles cannot give you an idea of the sea's width; even a height of a thousand meters cannot give you an idea of its depth. In the time of the great floods, the waters in the sea did not increase. During the terrible droughts, the waters in the sea did not decrease. The sea does not change along with the passage of time and its level does not rise or fall according to the amount of rain that falls. The greatest happiness is to live in the Sea."

After listening to these words, the frog of the shallow well was shocked into realization of his own insignificance and became very ill at ease.
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juditha
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #1 - Jan 27th, 2008 at 11:13am
 
Hi desert   From what i can make of it is, that both of them should be content with what they got so really the frog has no need to bragg to the turtle as he's got it all ,his own happy little world and should be content ,just because the turtle said the sea was wider and all that,does not mean to say the frog would be happier in turtle sea world as he's got more chance of being eaten by a shark so he's better off in the pond,i think if the frog sat on a lily pad and thought this out propaly ,then he would know how well off he is.The turtle  did not need to be jealous of frog nor was he as he had got his own special little world, if i met someone like the frog,i'd tell them to get a life and stop bragging,but we are all frogs  sometimes.

I  would say that this fable is a bit like the old saying"The grass is'nt always greener on the other side"

I think if  any of us are happy in our own pond,then thats great but if some of us are not happy in our own pond,then perhaps we should try the sea,who knows we maybe a frog or a turtle.

Love and God bless   love juditha
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blink
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #2 - Jan 27th, 2008 at 12:08pm
 
Perhaps the frog needs this experience of the turtle visitor in order to begin to dream...to dream of a different world. This knowledge, of possibility, stretches the parameters of his frog-imagination.

Once the little frog-ego gets over itself, the discomfort eases. Curiosity takes its place. If the turtle returns later, he might find the frog jumping over and over and over, obsessed by trying to exit the well.

Another time, the turtle might return to find the frog praying to God to release him from the well, so certain he might be that there is somehow more to his frog-life.

Eventually, a visitor might find that the frog has again become content with his life, after his many attempts and prayers, finally realizing again and appreciating what he has. However, the frog might now have a new story to tell to the turtle, if indeed it ever returned from the sea....

a story of reaching out, trying to fly, leaping about, holding out his very heart with all its wishes...and how it felt to "almost" fly....

The turtle, in reply, might again try to describe how amazing his freedom is, out in the vast sea, and how weightless he feels, and how fascinating the views are...out there. He might begin to describe what it feels like to arrive back at the beach.

Pehaps they have a meeting this time, a little different from the earlier meeting. Maybe they get to know each other a little better. Maybe they feel a little more alike this time...Who knows?


love, blink Smiley

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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #3 - Jan 27th, 2008 at 7:00pm
 
A very similar story is told about Krishna who was talking with Arjuna. Arjuna was saying how he would love to be ruler of the world, like the World-God Indra. Krishna listened for a while, recalling that Indra arose with ther world, and then as the world ended in each cosmic cycle, Indra sort of lost his job. Eventually Krishna pointed to what seemed to be a trail of ants meandering across the floor. Arjuna asked what it was. Krishna smiled, "Indras all."

Or we could go live on Aldebaran  Wink

dave
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #4 - Jan 27th, 2008 at 7:38pm
 
I  would say that this fable is a bit like the old saying"The grass is'nt always greener on the other side"

Grin

Juditha speaks for me on this one. u keep surprising me Juditha, your insight.
love, alysia
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betson
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #5 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 1:25pm
 
Hi,

At first I thought it related to the fable/question, "Is it better to be
a big frog in a small pond or a little frog in a big pond?"

But it doesn't seem exactly fair as a story because turtles could live
in a well, but frogs can't live in the ocean--- Undecided  can they?

So in that case, I'm going with Juditha's answer too.

Bets
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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare
 
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #6 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 1:53pm
 
haha! Bets...if we really want to carry this on...then we get out of household chores while sitting here... Smiley  soo....what is a frog? it used to be a tadpole, thats why it likes to brag, it can jump around now, catch flies with its tongue..mmm. taste good.


along comes this big old turtle with a shell on it's back. thats its house. carries it's house everywhere. how strange. it can't jump. poor thing!
however, little croaking frog found a friend wandering by sluggishly with its house on its back and froggie has to croak so croaks about whatever...
soon if enough croaking starts, the whole pond is doing a revit..revit..revit..sound all over the pond, as well, we won't speak of the crickets right now who do this practically all night long.

humans are weird. they put cricket sounds into their music CD's, but not the sound of a frog. and of course the turtle does not make a sound at all.

then we must question, why is a turtle trying to get into a well? is this turtle bored?

in any case we might suppose the turtle is friendly and is doing one of these tricks:


...


in this case, if that is what the turtle is doing shouldn't the frog be quite amused instead of feeling insignificant?  yes, I think that is the solution to this whole story.
Roll Eyes
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Desert
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #7 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 3:24pm
 
juditha

With regard to, "The grass isn't always greener on the other side", I think it would require some modifications if for example the "sea" meant the afterlife. Unless one believes in some of the experiences related by NDE'rs and others of nightmarish conditions verging on Boschian imagery instead of the more pleasant aspects. 

blink

I can see the possibilities you mentioned but I'm not too sure on the "praying" aspect. Then again I've never bothered to research theological dynamics in the frog population. 

dave_a_mbs

Aldebaran: It is 38 times the diameter of our Sun and shines 150 to 200 times brighter. Wow, imagine the sunsets. Smiley

Oh, and let's not forget Antares. Super-Wow!

Here's a little visual:
http://www.rense.com/general72/size.htm

betson

Yes, juditha makes a good point in the case of the shark. I imagined the frog having a Rodin's Thinker moment and then deciding that he would visit this "sea". He arrives at the seashore and the sight of it knocks his flippered socks of his flippered feet. He runs into the water and immediately knows something is wrong - it's not fresh water. He quickly scrambles to get back to the land but swiftly a shark comes by and gobbles him up. Realistically it could be just any big fish but it doesn't lessen the tragic dénouement. 

LaffingRain

Hmm, I must say I've never seen a turtle be so acrobatic. You learn something new every day.

I didn't glean much in the story as to the turtle's psychological disposition; I think that he was basically curious but opted for some turtle-sense.


Desert
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #8 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 3:33pm
 
A related tale is the woman who asked the preacher what the world was like. "The world", he said, "Is a crystal sphere resting on the back of an elep[hant that stands on the back of the Cosmic Turtle."

"OK," she replied, "And what is that turtle resting on?"

"The cosmic turtle is resting on the back of a still greater turtle."

"OK," she replied, "And what is that turtle resting on?"

"That turtle as well is resting on an even greater turtle."

"But what does that turtle stand on?"

"Madam, have no fear. It's turtle's all the way down."

Wink
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #9 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 5:23pm
 
and with Dave's comment I think we've exhausted the subject  Roll Eyes
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #10 - Jan 28th, 2008 at 6:59pm
 
Well, I say at least that friggin frog was told the friggin truth, right from the friggin beginning and wasnt friggin lied to!  Smiley Which can not be said of many of the turtles in charge we have had around us frogs for a lot of friggin centuries.

I wanna talk to that friggin turtle, and none of the others right now!

Wink
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Re: Of Frogs, Turtles and The Sea
Reply #11 - Jan 29th, 2008 at 10:29pm
 
It's a bit like a belief-system-crash Bruce talks about. One might be content and all seems fairly good. Then this one comes across something which makes this one realize that there are other ways of living this one had never thought of. With this new knowledge, nothing will be the same, you can't get back. You'll never look at your old life with the same eyes again.

Spooky
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"I'm going where the pavement turns to sand"&&Neil Young, "Thrasher"
 
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