Unfortunately, Vajra, the better option to replace SSRIs is a swift kick to the posterior and strong counsel to get along with life. Or, as Rei might appreciate, "God didn't make junk, so there's nothing really wrong except that you don't like it. Stop whining and take responsibility and it will change. We are here to help, but we can't do it for you. Now move your arse."

But with only rare exceptions, people aren't ready for that.

If we didn't take ourselves so seriously, life would be a lot simpler. Maybe that's why the Egyptians weighed the heart - lighthearted people tend to have their world together.

In case anyone still feels that hypnosis has some arcane powers, it doesn't. Hypnosis is nothing but guided meditation. Viewed the other way around, meditation is nothing but self hypnosis. When the mind shuts down its internal babble and is aware of whatever is going on, then that's the basic state, whether hypnotic or meditative.

The reason that hetero-hypnosis works better than auto-hypnosis, is that it's easier to have a guide direct you, so that you aren't halfway caught up in trying to figure out what to do while you're trying to do it.

It's no big deal.

dave

Re the kick ass method Dave. Just to say that it works in some cases (tough love so to speak) but that it can be problematical too. People can benefit from being forced to get moving, although a change in life circumstances together with some tacit recognition of their problem is probably better than pure advice or instruction (no matter how loud) which they may be unable to act on.

It takes a lot of wisdom, self mastery and care to make the right call on this. Sometimes it's flat the wrong tack. Given our cultural conditioning it's very easy for it to spill over into criticism or be interpreted as such - which actually worsens the situation.

My own experience was that I developed a big problem with low thyroid which had really bitten by the early 90s and the resulting fatigue left me unable to do more than minimal work without getting physically ill. (chronic sinus and other infections flared up when I got tired) I repeatedly tried to ignore it, but after numerous episodes of high temperatures and weeks in bed with bad flu symptoms it got to me. The brain fog low thyroid and mercury poisoning produces meant that my focus and thinking were dodgy anyway. I got gun shy.

Then the guilt  and inadequacy set in - I was very heavily conditioned to achieve in conventional terms, and to get into self blame and denigration when it didn't happen.

A not too physically demanding and blame-free environment where I could have worked on stuff not requiring a lot of thought might have helped me. Although maybe not  - as things were I was forced to confront the issue and find ways to stop hating myself while undoing the damage I'd already done. If the pain had been reduced I'd probably not have done this. (the benefits of karma again  )

I've seen it happen with geriatrics of this disposition as well (it's a bit of a problem where the Anglo Saxon work ethic holds sway) when they reach the point where they physically they can't work any more and through mental intensity and brooding take themselves apart.

I was lucky enough to discover meditation and some other tools to work on myself, but lucky was the word. My every instinct was to fight when actually what I needed to do was to relax and accept the situation for what it was. I was lucky too that my wife was not inclined to push. Fighting just tightened the noose....

Dave said It's no big deal.

but I'm still happy at least some people do it, I know its a service nontheless.

I regressed my own kid. she wanted to know about Dan, her first boyfriend.
I relaxed her and asked her what she saw. she didn't see anything, but I started seeing things, so i told her, his name was Dirk. you were in the 60's, early on. you started a romance that didn't get off the ground. He loved you very much, vowed to track you down in the next life. I saw her get trampled by a protest crowd and die under the feet of them. she was flower child. she came to me this life, and was a flower child for awhile, we even got her a VW bus and painted "love Wagon on it." lol. the neighbors were not impressed!

shes not hippy anymore, she took up roller derby, to learn to be tough. she still likes her pot though and it don't hurt nothing to smoke that stuff. its even good for certain medical conditions, but I'm not attracted to it myself..

but I still like the way you are helping people Dave its very interesting.
love, alysia

SSRI - Selective Seroronin Reuptake Inhibitor. Prozac, Effexor and so on...

Serotonin is your natural inhibitor and moderator. People who get all freaked out and agitated can benefit from a brief period of anything (meditation is ideal, of course, but drugs work) that slows things down and allows them t get straight again. This is what these things are designed for.  Unfortunately, they produce a nice zombyfication allowing people go off into a rosy glow with little interest in reality. - And they're all addictive, meaning that there are severe depressive episodes that accompany reduction and termination of use. Catch 22 - if you're depressed we have something that will solve that, but you can't stop taking it or you'll get even more depressed.

Vajra is totally correct that most people are not ready for rapid relief. My practice aims for ultra-brief hypno-analytic therapy, which amounts to going directly back to the event and dealing with it. This is not something that can be used with fragile temperaments, nor is it appropriate for long term supportive needs. Instead, my approach is confrontive, robust, dynamic and can overwhelm people who need a more gradual approach. I do the psychological equivalent of kick-ass, with a major dose of clearing away old issues and wreckage. I play from love, but have no time for Poor Me types. Those with actual needs for support generally get referred to people who offer that type of work. I view my job as "getting rid of people" - not as lifetime income security. (Actually, at the present time I'm building a restaurant in Morro Bay, California - I don't have time to do long term supportive work.)

dave

That sort of experience I think Alysia probably really underlines the creative nature of mind, and the problems our inevitably uncontrolled use of it creates. We talked earlier of god and demons as separate self created entities. Your story suggests that we even do this from moments in our own life which we get 'stuck' in, or can't forgive or can't let go.

They produce a 'kink' in our mind (the mind?), and then somehow time moves on leaving it (actually perhaps the vibe attached to our initial perception of it) intact or in some way existent (as some sort of negative energy or sentiment attached to what we perceive as a deep memory, but perhaps it's actually real in some way) before we have time or are able to unravel and release it. This kink, while after some time beyond our everyday awareness still lives on as a god or a demon that sucks energy out of us  - causing effects that we feel today without necessarily being aware of the cause.

It's a kind of catch 22 problem anyway - we need time and more life experience than we have available when it happens to be able to on the spot unravel and release it, yet the very fact of time's moving on somehow leaves it with a more or less infinite existence unless much later on we can with our new found 'view' somehow get back to and release it.

If our view was wholly correct or realised from the start so that we were 100% forgiving of these events as they happened then somehow the kink would never have formed.

Not sure if this makes any sense, but it's sobering to think that (a) this may very well be analogous to the process by which this reality and self is created, and (b) that every time it happens it takes us deeper into, extends and leaves us more tightly bound to this samsaric reality - with more work to do if we are to escape. That the more problematical our life the deeper the mess gets.

Clear as mud??

How's about a not very good analogy to this situation:

The Sausage Factory

Think of a sausage machine bringing together all sorts of ingredients and extruding this continuous strand sausage. You are the minder of that sausage machine. Your job is to keep it fed with material, and to make a simple adjustment to keep it working right. You have other tasks elsewhere in the factory too.

As the minder you can detect when something you think is nasty (dark meat maybe) comes through in the sausage. You're very concerned about the sausage because it's an important part of your diet, and of other's too.

The problem is you are a young and very impressionable sausage machine operator. After one or two nasties have come through you start focusing really hard on the  the string where it leaves the machine to catch what you think are the bad bits. Trouble is no matter how hard you focus you can't seem to catch them - they somehow slip by because you can't quite figure what to do.

It'd make a lot of sense to consult with the factory owner, but somehow you get such tunnel vision that you can't take your eyes off the machine. Not wanting to eat what you think is bad sausage you meanwhile bust a gut trying to  remember where all the nasty bits are in the string of sausage.

Every now and then the factory owner allows a short break and you manage to go back and cut out the odd bad bit. But you can't seem to get close to them all and eventually you end up frantic with worry that you'll end up eating bad sausages, that others will too, and that you'll be in big trouble with the boss.

Eventually it all gets out of hand. You end up stressed out and in melt down, you haven't a hope of catching up with all the bad bits and meanwhile you're so focused on the one bit of the string where it exits the machine that you forget to adjust the machine or to feed it with fresh material. You're doing none of your other jobs elsewhere in the factory, and have forgotten all about the rest of the string.

The other workers have all quit and long started other things, but you don't notice.

Production gets very slow, quality is variable and occasionally it almost stops. Eventually the factory  owner comes in and looks to see what the problem is. You're scared silly and hide, but eventually he finds you.

Upon being asked what the problem is you deny its existence, try to blame others, the crappy machine, the bad ingredients, everything except yourself. Gently and persistently he shows you that this can't be the case, that the problem is the way you are seeing the job.

You're amazed that he's not blaming you for doing harm, he's more worried that you're not upset and troubled. And that you're missing out on the fun work the others are doing.

But then he blows you away by bursting into a great laugh, throwing his arms around you and saying -  but the sausage filling was fine. The dark stuff is no problem. The machine checks this automatically, I designed it so that it will remove any really bad bits itself before they get into the sausage. Your job is only to keep it fed with material, and to adjust it as needed to maintain the flow.

What's more it's late at night and everybody else is long gone and off having fun doing important things while you're stuck obsessing about what is not a real problem. Your obsession with this issue has been closing down your awareness and stopping you seeing how important all the other parts of your job are too.

The sausage is important, and it's important to learn to operate the machine but not so important as all the other things you need to do in the factory. And certainly not so important that the owner would fire you. he sees things in a much larger way - he knows much better than you do what your potential is and wants eventually to develop you into a manager in the factory.

So eventually you learn that you can trust the boss, that he your interest at heart, and that if you are going to do what's best for yourself and everybody else you need to lightly but mindfully keep and eye on the machine while not losing awareness of all the other parts of your life.

The sausage is your C1 life stretching back into eternity.

The dark bits of filling are those events in life that we grasp at, or perceive as problems or important - that get hung up about and can't release. With time we see nothing except these.

Our broader job in the factory is our total existence - not just C1 but at all levels of which we need to become aware and where we have work to do too.

The short breaks where we get to remove some of the dark bits are short periods of awareness of this, and of the reality of our C1 life, soon lost when we get sucked back into our obsession with the bad bits.

The bad quality runs of sausage caused by our not letting the machine run properly with just the right touch on adjustments is life getting out of shape as a result of our inability to go with the flow  - or to know intuitively when to intervene, and when not.

The skill, mindfulness, care and broad awareness required to do all the jobs properly are analogous to how we are required to learn to handle this life and our broader existence.

The great sausage of life and our operation of the machine being important to our development but not mattering in any absolute way is analogous to the way that it's only the learning that matters in life, not the events themselves. That we literally can do no permanent wrong.

The caring factory owner is of course God or higher mind.

And in the end when we get good at operating the sausage machine what matters to him is our ability to move on to a higher job.

Anyway. Hope it's not too long!! No doubt it's full of holes and inaccuracies which you'll see immediately....

I didn't know you eat sausage Ian.  that would be an ok analogy to my pov, if it didn't take 50 years, half a lifetime, to get the production line going again. but thats just another personal take in itself, that I do.

I see the mind as similar to a computer with belief system software up there running the show that can be changed out as necessary, even though seeing one's self as a computer, it can seem demeaning at first, but it's not really, once the observer part of the mind gets into the picture; this might be analogous to the inspector showing up and telling sausage cranker to use some disinfectant after work so nobody gets sick.

ok, I missed the later part of the analogy and then up pops Justin and I was sitting here laffing because of his use of the word queasy...

then as I'm reading I realized just how I function, with images from words.

as I read Ian's post, I kept seeing a giant never ending greasy sausage floating in the air. rolf!  it got in the way of my critical powers of logic. so it made me laff. which I'm sure is not your intention Ian. just rambling here.

you said something significant to me here: Your obsession with the issue has been closing down your awareness and stopping you seeing how important all the other parts of your life are too.
______
actually, this might be the case sometimes, that there is obsession in some of us.
with the sausage guy, that he wishes to do a good job, he is driven by his fear of perhaps becoming unemployed, yet in my particular story, I'm talking about the subconscious mind is like a computer program with one single pov, which closes down awareness of other points of view.

you sum up, more or less god is in charge here, so all the fuss is really not necessary, if we could only come to that perspective.
thats entirely true, yet while living a single life in waking reality, we will not be aware god is in charge until it's all over, in most cases, unless conscious pathways into the subconscious and the super subconsious even are taken up.

I believe that's why you're always telling us to meditate because you are aware of that benefit. I think its a good point. a lot of us however, do not know how to meditate.

therefore I'd just conclude theres tons of advice out there how to do it. retrievals is one of the pathways to the psyche and also Buddhism, Christian Science, A Course in Miracles, TMI, etc etc etc, prayer, etc etc can lead to inner reflections or meditation.
all the different paths are to say god is in charge of all this even if we don't realize it, we do a life review when we're dead, or earlier if possible and discover, it was all good because of the result of searching yields the meaning.

then we get into holy wars and try to define god. we try to find the edges of the universe, or measure infinity. we eat our own tails by chasing them.

In the end we get real quiet in good company and listen to the others tales, and say, yes, I am also that. I celebrate your uniqueness. then we all do a cooperative effort and things really start to happen!

thanks Ian for all your sausages, I hope I can throw some posies in there as well.
love, alysia