One of the big things Jesus did was cast out unclean spirits and demons.  It is repeated many times in the New Testament.

About a year ago I ran across this book:  People Who Don't Know They're Dead: How They Attach Themselves To Unsuspecting bystanders and what to do about it by Gary Leon Hill.

Hill may not know about the Monroe and Moen, or he may be a regular poster on this forum.  In any case, he seems to have hit on the same thing they have.  I tried to find a way to email him but a short search turned up nothing.

In a black sheep branch of my family, there seems to be an amazing compulsion to keep repeating the mistakes of the past, trying even harder, with the same disastrous outcomes. 

Several of my parents generation have passed on in the last few years, and I wonder if the reason these things are coming to my attention is to get me to try to pry a member of that generation who killed himself free so he will stop screwing up his children and grandchildren.

I tried some of Moen's techniques and seemed to make contact, but was met with incredible wrath and rage.  I was not successful in even maintaining any contact.  If I did actually contact the individual in question, he doesn't want to leave.  He also believes he has power to screw up my life if I don't leave him alone.

There is a psychological concept called projection.  It is often seen in people living in psychological denial.  There is also the concept of Shame vs Guilt, which applies to individuals as well as societies and cultures.  Shame is a disabling emotion, and people avoid it with all the power they can muster.  Guilt is something that can be ended by stopping the bad behavior, but shame seems to be out of the control of people experiencing it and can only be denied and projected on others.

Is removing these stuck malicious spirits the thing that Jesus did when he cast them out.  Did he free them to move up higher and leave those on earth alone?  Being forgiven should end any feeling of shame.

Islam is known as a Shame Culture, as opposed to the Western Guilt Culture.  Does this afterlife mechanism explain the behavior of Islamic suicide bombers, and the Islamic Religion's belief in demons and assorted evil spirits which they believe have a lot of power on earth.  Is part of the belief system they find themselves in after death a belief that they are in even better position to kill Jews and infidels than when they were on earth. 

I know I intruduced several questions in this rambling post, but any comments from those more experienced than me would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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We who live in the 21st century tend to mix up all kinds of imagery that we have inherited from the past! It sometimes might be like comparing apples and oranges. I'm not sure what level Jesus was purportedly talking on when he cast out demons. I'm not sure it exists in the same framework as guilt and shame. Or maybe it does but people in the first century couldn't understand that because they did not have the conceptual framework to understand it. The concept of projection may have been like rocket science to them. So  I'm not sure where the ideas of demon possesion come from historicallly but I'm pretty sure they didn't mean the same thing we do.

However, it seemed to work and that was all that mattered. And you are just looking for something that works, right?

Lucy,

I am simply looking for something that will work, but I hope it also teaches me something about handling situations like this.

I would like to see a healing in the situation, which in my definition would see the black sheep members making an honest living.  Part of the problem is that they are so in debt from previous get rich quick escapades that they believe only a BIG score will get them back on top. 

The shame they seem to feel causes them to spend most of their after interest income trying to keep up appearances so nobody else will know.  What they are in denial about is that everyone in the community already knows exactly what their condition is.

The grandfather went bankrupt and his family bought back his farmland.  The father killed himself apparently when faced with a hopeless situation.  The son married well but has gone through his wife's money and is in deep trouble again.

Before he passed on, my father counseled them to go bankrupt and start over.  Their wrath was so intense it almost killed him.

REI

interesting thread Lucy, Ian and Rei regarding healing.

I was thinking in one sense what you are doing we might call a retrieval on the black sheep, as I perceive retrievals as an integration process Ian speaks of, I perceive it as the atonement JC spoke of, or healing the separation.

I have two more relationships to heal myself in my family before I can say I'm done here. my half sister and half brother.
I have an interesting little obe to speak of these things, where we are making efforts with family members.

my kid sister is 10 years younger than me. she picks men who punch her face in. she says nice men are boring. there is nothing I can do about it. she looks at me cross eyed whenever I speak of something entirely out of her belief system patterns.
I had to realize she's not the toddler anymore I held in my arms once.

In the obe I traveled out there once to just check up on her spiritual state of being.
it's relevant to say she has a problem with money too. phones are often disconnected, and living quarters change as rent not paid, her kids do not pay room and board, now they are adults and she has a problem disaplining them to make them indendent.

so I travel out there concerned. I glide up to her, there she is buried in the Earth, only the head is just peeping up from water in the hole: I bend down to focus on her face. her own special guide, a woman appears from nowhere and gently lifts her head from the water to keep her from drowning.
I am feeling love and grief at the same time. possibly compassion. I look at her face as she slightly turns it towards me and she is sending a little smile to me, a very tired smile, but nonetheless it says to me, that and the guide lady, that she's going to be ok eventually as long as this lady stays beside her.

I do believe in helpers out there, who want to be of assistance, and as long as sis was being cared for, I could release my worries to her, the guide, knowing that sis has these things to work out on her own.

I don't have much of a relationship with her, maybe once a year I get a HELLO! I'm still alive! a little more used up but still kicking! gotta go! the man just walked in the door! lol.
she has quite a few relationships to work through.

my main point is maybe we just use visualization to see a person's perfect highest good to come, and we don't know exactly what that looks like often enough so we keep the faith while thinking love for them.

I have only to fall back on Religious Science premise: 1) treat 2) move your feet

which means affirm their good in prayer, then release it the universe, this desire to be of service to life, knowing it will happen.
love, alysia

Hi Rei-
The works of Edith Fiori on entity depossession give as good a generic introduction as I've been able to find. However, there's seems to be a bit more to it.

Samuel Sagan has written an interesting interpretation called Entity Possession in which he classifies four levels of intrusions. The lowest is mindless and grossly material, the next somewhat instinctive with a little life force, the next is deliberately adaptive, but without a sense of self, and the highest level of Sagan's hierarchy has a well-devloped ego structure and personality. The system Sagan presents is logical and clear.

In my practice I've encountered two main types of hitch hikers, the obvious everyday spirit with personality, and the other with utter undirected panic that overwhelms all personality. On one or two instances I've found a aethereal being that had stuck onto a person, claiming to have been misdirected by other spirits, plus a very rare third instance of bundles of spiritual energy more or less maladaptively stuck onto muscle and organ groups.

For the general case, such as family members etc, it's a matter of ego and pride, confusion and projected expectations, plus hatred and rejection and the fear that accompanies it. The "black hatred" that we occasionally encounter comes out of the level of anxiety and fearfulness that these guys feel. I've had hitchiking entities who were afraid to go into the Light because they were certain that their tormenters awaited them there. I've had people killed by animals who felt that they must now act like an animal. And I've had a few spooks who thought that they were demons - because it had been so long since they stopped being people, and they had adopted ways of parasitic existence.

The treatment is essentially educational. First, it is necessary that everyone be aware that these are dead people. Death is OK, because it is never fatal. (When a spirit laughs, then we're OK.) If necessary, we review life, how death happened, unresolved desires and fractured dreams, and also what is the purpose of being a "stuck-on spook" as compared to going into the Light to learn a better way to accomplish all those good things etc.

Then we have to develop the sense of clarity a little. The entity has extremely imited abilities. Attachment to the everyday world is only through those very few traits that overlap between the spirit world and the material world.  These especially include the extremely basic strong emotions. The entity has no proper memory, so the causes of events must be perpetually present in order to think about them. That means that if Uncle Louie is attached to Willie's hatred of rutabagas, then that will be an obsessive thought about which the attachment will revolve. Usually this turns into a few moments of expressing emotions, as well as realization that there it is really not possible to "help" or "cause" the host to perform in any specific manner. The entity's awareness is thus turned to the global situation and away from the specifics of attachment.

The third part is reintegration, abandonment of fear and hatred and acceptance of infinite lve and forgiveness. This can be scary, because we're all pretty imperfect. But the story of the Prodigal Son has served me the same way as a sniper's rifle, tergeting and eliminating fear of judgement. In a few cases I've had to point out that the well-meaning fire-and-brimstone preachers who threaten hell and damnation were simply wrong. There's neither hell nor is there any kind of rejection from God. The worst we get is a feeling of embarrassment that we didn;t do a better job - but we get that wth the ability to go back and do it right.

I work in a chatty friendly manner, as these are they guys that I've dedicated my life to serve. There are no souls so needy as those wh fancy themselves damned and dominic. What a pity! Often I ask the entity if there are friends in the Light from their past lives - and there always are. Then I ask their friends to tell the entity whether or not the Light is a universally better place to be. I also often point out that they can return from the Light -and get the friends to verify this. In that way, they are not losing anything, but they are gaining abilities.

Once in a while someone doesn't know how to get into the Light, or feels inadequate to go there because of past issues. Then the friends can reach down and give them a hand up. I've had some pretty rickety souls perched on a cloudy outcropping in fear of falling back into chaos, but once they get there for a moment, it is possible to point out how much easier it is to accept that in spite of all the ways we screw up, it still is OK, and God is accepting of all of it.

I have a protocol for basic past life work on my web site mbs-hypnoclinic.com as well as a written booklet at Lulu.com and if you want a complete text I have a text "Introduction to Hypnotic Regression" and another book of related readings "Developmental Psychopathology", available at BookSurge.com or Amazon.com under my name "David P. Armentrout, PhD".  Please note that these are simply complements to Bruce's books. If you've read Bruce's books then you've already gotten the same ideas, and it's simply a matter of application. And, in all honesty, Bruce is a more competent and more readable author. Oh well.

I hope this helps-
dave

This is one area of life in which we are all doing the same thing in different ways.

I recall one spook who was being a real pain in the backside. I was geting nasty words, angry thoughts and so on. I finallly brought out the "Big Guns" - a quote from the Prajanaparamita Sutra in Sanskrit, literally "Om namo, arya prajna paramitaya hum." Which actually translates into something like, "Paise be. the highest spiritual transcendental kowledge. So mote it nbe." - And amazingly it worked, he calmed down and all was peaceful.

Ya never know.

d

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and insights.  I started the reply I just posted hours ago and just finished it to find several other good posts had gone up in the meantime.

That was a nice piece Dave. I should have said that higher states of awareness are involved in working on yourself with Chod for example too - this enables access to mind at levels and in a context where self suggestion is effective.

Presumably too in healing a third party too as Jesus is described as having done. I'm not sure how it works there as I've no experience, but I imagine it's to do with accessing a high enough state of awareness so that the minds are effectively joined or at least in communication/influencing is possible  at a high enough level as above.

I guess hypnosis must be another way of placing a third party in a state of consciousness where suggestion reaches a sufficiently a sufficiently high/deep level of their mind for this to happen too.

On the doormat issue Alysia. It's possible I guess to work without too much C1 involvement of others as above, but it's often so much about getting this stuff into our own conscious awareness too. Once you 'see' for example that you have a doormat problem and have an idea of roughly the way to treat the situation (stop fighting, use love) it's fairly easy to start heading down the right road.

I know nothing about Christian Science REI, but that's a really interesting piece on that link. Switch some terminology around, replace the biblical language with modern English and she's basically saying what what I very briefly paraphrased a Buddhist inspired view as. That we can access guidance on how to act  to maintain the flow or natural (God/love based) state of things via higher awareness, that all is (one) mind, and that it's when the ego gets involved and starts trying to push through it's selfish agenda that the trouble starts.

I've not been following the other thread, but the fit is remarkable. How did Mary Baker Eddie come up with this stuff? Was she influenced by eastern thought?

You're so right Dave in saying that everybody is doing the same but in different ways....