Hi I was at the centre today with Deanna and Martin was sitting with us and the reason he is at the centre is because he fell out with God,he hated him and blamed him for all his suffering and also he was violent towards others and really had no respect for anyone but just lately he had started to love God again and seemed to be getting better.

Martin said to me and Deanna today that he is going to ask Tiffany our priest whather she beleives in universal salvation and will she allow him,me and Deanna to commit suicide and if she does beleive in universal salvation and says that him and us are not to commit suicide as we will go to hell,then hes going to tell Tiffany that she has got to commit suicide as well so that him and us go to heaven and she goes to hell instead of us also if Tiffany says she does not beleive in universal salvation he's going to tell her,she has no right to be a preist,he was so serious when he said this,he also said that God is a liar and Jesus should still be suffering on the cross forever.

I wonder what you all think of this as Martin hates God again.

Love and God bless   love juditha

Juditha and Deanna,

I would stay far away from this character.  First off, it is clear that there is salvation, but salvation by right thought and action, not just for everyone no matter what their thoughts or actions are.  In other words, the idea that someone could just check out of the physical world because they believe they will be saved by asking for it afterward, is, well, just nuts.

Being alive, in the physical world is special - not a thing to be wasted.  Yes, there is the good with the bad, but through it all, we are learning; making spiritual progress.

If we truly understand the golden rule (do unto others...), and the law of attraction, the laws of cause and effect (karma) and how thing manifest in our lives (good and bad) with intent, then we are learning how to become worthy of God and Heaven.  If we choose to love others, to seek for our commonalities instead of our differences, then when we are ready to pass over, we've gained much from this rough and tumble world.

The priest has no special answer for what happens to a suicidal soul; NDE.com has some excellent references about aborted suicides that give you a general gist of things.  It is not a pretty picture.  While salvation may be found - taking the quick way to a dark afterlife is going in the wrong direction.

Matthew

Hi,
To hate some one you must first know them, if this person knew god then they would know god is love and love him. Suicide people do not go to hell I have read about many such cases in nde writings where thesis troubled souls go to a place of healing in the afterlife

alan

Alan McDougall wrote on Jan 21^st, 2008 at 9:24pm:


Alan thats exactly what is said on the www.jenseits-de.com site too. It even tells one "what it looks like within that realm of healing ...ergo like a rehab resort". There is no such thing as "hell" as in being different from that which we live in now.. When Peter H. Kirchner and his team have spoken to their Guides they have gotten extensive info on that subject concerning the focus levels there etc. I agree with you on the subject. Anyone whom knows God (All there is) will automatically and instinctively focus on "love".
Nanner

Hells are made by our own consciousness.  With the exception of a few situations, taking one's own life to get onto an easier afterlife will lead to a state which reflects the person's mind at the time of the suicide.  It would be nice to think that all people who take their lives would be immediately whisked into an afterlife hospital ward, but though I think they may find themselves there eventually, initially it can be more grim  - not out of a divine imposed judgement, but because the suicidal person's own consciousness knows that life was special; that you can't run away from problems/karma, that the selfish act of suicide hurts many many others who are living in the world.  The soul must deal with these realities when it gets to the other side.  So rather than an escape to a better place, initially there is darkness and grief. 

I have no doubt that there are helpers/rescuers and that those who commit suicide find there way to a better existence eventually, but it seems to me that most of them will do it the hard way. On the NDE site, there is a particularly poignant story of a NDE of a potential suicide.  She saw what would happen to her family, grieving for her, she could not bear the pain she caused in taking her life.  She had awoken in a dark realm with little light, and people curled up into their own little balls.  She was revived, and lived to tell of this experience.

Love is the key, as is good thought and action.  I myself do not subscribe to the "faith alone" doctrine, that you can committ any crime or act imagineable, as long as you ask forgiveness when you are done.  I think salvation is there, but there is a back and forth, give and take, yin and yang along the way. 


M

My readings and sources tend to agree, but confusion or a hell are about similar afterlife experiences.  I think that the surviving consciousness feels tremendous guilt at trying to take the easy way out for them, yet hurting their loved ones at the same time.  I think, that when faced with the love of God, the knowledge that life incarnate is precious, that there is a feeling that they really "messed up."  This causes confusion, yes, guilt, and despair.  Their surroundings will likely match this state of mind (unfortunately).

I do think there is redemption from this place of consciousness.  My sense simply is that it is almost never a reasonable option - and this is the answer the Priest should give Martin.  Faith alone, after suicide, without right action and thought will not, in my opinion guarantee a spot inside the pearly gates closer to God.

We are given the free will to choose to face life, and triumph.  To love and to act positively.  If we choose hiding or acting negatively, we create more problems for ourselves down the road (karma).  Cause and effect.  So suicide is never the "easy way," for its consequences come back at the person who acted on it. 

Matthew

Alas poor Martin -
It's a basic truth that with some people as friends we don't need enemies. The same is true of people who focus on negativity. There is a time and place for uch relationships, after which it is appropriate to move on.  Unless you are seriously interested in making a cosmic experiment out of what would have been the rest of your life, you will do better to move onward.

Being angry at God is little more than an excuse to not take personal responsibility. Its like blaming your feet for stepping in a puddle. That's not your style - unless you've radically changed in the last couple weeks, which I doubt.

dave