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ESP and the Afterlife (Read 14626 times)
Vicky
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Re: ESP and the Afterlife
Reply #30 - Jan 18th, 2008 at 4:58pm
 
LaffingRain wrote on Jan 18th, 2008 at 3:11pm:
     
The very act of having to prove something, is not the approach in exploring these experiences we have as it sets up a tension block in the mind right away. Thats why experiments are so very difficult to the scientific minded to establish this criteria Don is looking for as "evidence."




Alysia, thanks for pointing this out.  You are absolutely correct.  That's the whole point.  The blocks that get set up in the mind and in one's belief system affect the outcome of the experiment.
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'Do-Over' as they say....
Reply #31 - Jan 18th, 2008 at 8:37pm
 
I deleted all of my posts except two.
I left my original first post alone....and...my post to Alysia.
It was meant for Alysia and it stays.

Now this thread can get back on track.

Call it a 'Do-Over'.



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Re: ESP and the Afterlife
Reply #32 - Jan 19th, 2008 at 3:30am
 
HI there all and Bruce, I am aware that we are not a near death experience forum but believe this account explaines a lot about what we have being debating in this nice thread. It is possibly the most profound nde that I have had the pleasure of reading,
alan

 

Mellen-Thomas Benedict's

Near-Death Experience

 


For the latest updates on Mellen Thomas:

Mellen Thomas Near Death Experience NDE

The official website of Mellen Thomas

Mellen-Thomas Benedict is an artist who survived a near-death experience in 1982. He was dead for over an hour and a half after dying of cancer. At the time of his death, he rose up out of his body and went into the light. Curious about the universe, he was taken far into the remote depths of existence, and even beyond, into the energetic void of nothingness behind the Big Bang. During his experience, he was able to learn a great deal of information concerning reincarnation. Because of his near-death experience, he was able to bring back scientific discoveries. Mr. Benedict has been closely involved in the mechanics of cellular communication and research dealing with the relationship of light to life called Quantum Biology. This research is providing dramatic new perspectives on how biological systems work. Mr. Benedict has found that living cells can respond very quickly to light stimulation resulting in, among other things, high speed healing. He is a researcher, inventor and lecturer who holds six U.S. patents.

Several weeks after Benedict was born, he may experienced a NDE when his bowels were ruptured. His body was tossed to one side as a corpse, yet much to everyone's surprise he later revived. As soon as he was big enough to grab hold of crayons, he started what became a compulsive urge to create symbolic renditions of the black/white yin/yang circles of Eastern religious thought. He has no memory of why he drew those particular symbols.

He spent his grade school years in a Catholic boarding school in Vermont, and was baptized in the Salvation Army religion as a youngster. He traveled extensively because of a military stepfather until the family finally settled down in Fayetteville, North Carolina.

Then, Benedict was diagnosed as having inoperable cancer. He had retired from the frenzy of filmdom by then and was operating his own stained-glass studio. As his condition worsened, he spent more and more time with his art. One morning he awakened knowing he would die the next day, and he did. As the typical heaven-like scenario began to unfold, Benedict recognized what was happening as it was happening. The process was familiar to him because he had read many books about the near-death phenomenon previously.

Mr. Benedict's NDE is reprinted here by the permission of his friends Dr. Lee Worth Bailey and Jenny Yates. Their excellent book entitled The Near-Death Experience: A Reader, published by Routledge, New York, in 1996, is highly recommended by the webmaster. A portion of his near-death experience also appears in P.M.H. Atwater's book, Beyond the Light. Concerning Mellen's near-death experience, Dr. Ken Ring remarked, "His story is one of the most remarkable I have encountered in my extensive research on near-death experiences."

  P.M.H. Atwater has the following to say about Mellen-Thomas Benedict:

"I can attest that his case is genuine and his claims about the brain tumor and the conditions of his death are true. I have met his mother and step-father, been in his and their homes, and have followed his life since - his struggles and his accomplishments - as he sought to find a way to integrate his experience into his daily life while still honoring the mission he felt guided to fulfill."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Road to Death

In 1982 I died from terminal cancer. The condition I had was inoperable, and any kind of chemotherapy they could give me would just have made me more of a vegetable. I was given six to eight months to live. I had been an information freak in the 1970's, and I had become increasingly despondent over the nuclear crisis, the ecology crisis, and so forth. So, since I did not have a spiritual basis, I began to believe that nature had made a mistake, and that we were probably a cancerous organism on the planet. I saw no way that we could get out from all the problems we had created for ourselves and the planet. I perceived all humans as cancer, and that is what I got. That is what killed me. Be careful what your world view is. It can feed back on you, especially if it is a negative world view. I had a seriously negative one. That is what led me into my death. I tried all sorts of alternative healing methods, but nothing helped.

So I determined that this was really just between me and God. I had never really faced God before, or even dealt with God. I was not into any kind of spirituality at the time, but I began a journey into learning about spirituality and alternative healing. I set out to do all the reading I could and bone up on the subject, because I did not want to be surprised on the other side. So I started reading on various religions and philosophies. They were all very interesting, and gave hope that there was something on the other side. 

On the other hand, as a self-employed stained-glass artist at the time, I had no medical insurance whatsoever. So my life savings went overnight in testing. Then I was facing the medical profession without any kind of insurance. I did not want to have my family dragged down financially, so I determined to handle this myself. There was not constant pain, but there were black-outs. I got so that I would not dare to drive, and eventually I ended up in hospice care. I had my own personal hospice caretaker. I was very blessed by this angel who went through the last part of this with me. I lasted about eighteen months. I did not want to take a lot of drugs, since I wanted to be as conscious as possible. Then I experienced such pain that I had nothing but pain in my consciousness, luckily only for a few days at a time.

The Light of God

I remember waking up one morning at home about 4:30 am, and I just knew that this was it. This was the day I was going to die. So I called a few friends and said goodbye. I woke up my hospice caretaker and told her. I had a private agreement with her that she would leave my dead body alone for six hours, since I had read that all kinds of interesting things happen when you die. I went back to sleep. The next thing I remember is the beginning of a typical near-death experience. Suddenly I was fully aware and I was standing up, but my body was in the bed. There was this darkness around me.  Being out of my body was even more vivid than ordinary experience. It was so vivid that I could see every room in the house, I could see the top of the house, I could see around the house, I could see under the house.

There was this light shining. I turned toward the light. The light was very similar to what many other people have described in their near-death experiences. It was so magnificent. It is tangible; you can feel it. It is alluring; you want to go to it like you would want to go to your ideal mother's or father's arms. 

As I began to move toward the light, I knew intuitively that if I went to the light, I would be dead. 

So as I was moving toward the light I said, "Please wait a minute, just hold on a second here. I want to think about this; I would like to talk to you before I go." 

To my surprise, the entire experience halted at that point. You are indeed in control of your near-death experience. You are not on a roller coaster ride.  So my request was honored and I had some conversations with the light. The light kept changing into different figures, like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, mandalas, archetypal images and signs. 

I asked the light, "What is going on here? Please, light, clarify yourself for me. I really want to know the reality of the situation." 

I cannot really say the exact words, because it was sort of telepathy.  The light responded. The information transferred to me was that your beliefs shape the kind of feedback you are getting before the light. If you were a Buddhist or Catholic or Fundamentalist, you get a feedback loop of your own stuff. You have a chance to look at it and examine it, but most people do not. 

As the light revealed itself to me, I became aware that what I was really seeing was our Higher Self matrix. The only thing I can tell you is that it turned into a matrix, a mandala of human souls, and what I saw was that what we call our Higher Self in each of us is a matrix. It's also a conduit to the Source; each one of us comes directly, as a direct experience from the Source. We all have a Higher Self, or an oversoul part of our being. It revealed itself to me in its truest energy form. The only way I can really describe it is that the being of the Higher Self is more like a conduit. It did not look like that, but it is a direct connection to the Source that each and every one of us has. We are directly connected to the Source. 

So the light was showing me the Higher Self matrix. And it became very clear to me that all the Higher Selves are connected as one being, all humans are connected as one being, we are actually the same being, different aspects of the same being. It was not committed to one particular religion. So that is what was being fed back to me. And I saw this mandala of human souls. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. I just went into it and, it was just overwhelming. It was like all the love you've every wanted, and it was the kind of love that cures, heals, regenerates.

As I asked the light to keep explaining, I understood what the Higher Self matrix is. We have a grid around the planet where all the Higher Selves are connected. This is like a great company, a next subtle level of energy around us, the spirit level, you might say. 

Then, after a couple of minutes, I asked for more clarification. I really wanted to know what the universe is about, and I was ready to go at that time. 

I said, "I am ready, take me." 

Then the light turned into the most beautiful thing that I have ever seen: a mandala of human souls on this planet. 

Now I came to this with my negative view of what has happened on the planet. So as I asked the light to keep clarifying for me, I saw in this magnificent mandala how beautiful we all are in our essence, our core. We are the most beautiful creations. The human soul, the human matrix that we all make together is absolutely fantastic, elegant, exotic, everything. I just cannot say enough about how it changed my opinion of human beings in that instant.

I said, "Oh, God, I did not know how beautiful we are."

At any level, high or low, in whatever shape you are in, you are the most beautiful creation, you are.

I was astonished to find that there was no evil in any soul. 

I said, "How can this be?" 

The answer was that no soul was inherently evil. The terrible things that happened to people might make them do evil things, but their souls were not evil. What all people seek, what sustains them, is love, the light told me. What distorts people is a lack of love.

The revelations coming from the light seemed to go on and on, then I asked the light, "Does this mean that humankind will be saved?"

Then, like a trumpet blast with a shower of spiraling lights, the Great Light spoke, saying, "Remember this and never forget; you save, redeem and heal yourself.  You always have. You always will. You were created with the power to do so from before the beginning of the world."

In that instant I realized even more. I realized that WE HAVE ALREADY BEEN SAVED, and we saved ourselves because we were designed to self-correct like the rest of God's universe. This is what the second coming is about. 

I thanked the light of God with all my heart. The best thing I could come up with was these simple words of totally appreciation: 

"Oh dear God, dear Universe, dear Great Self, I love my life." 

The light seemed to breathe me in even more deeply. It was as if the light was completely absorbing me. The love light is, to this day, indescribable. I entered into another realm, more profound than the last, and became aware of something more, much more. It was an enormous stream of light, vast and full, deep in the heart of life. I asked what this was.

The light responded, "This is the RIVER OF LIFE. Drink of this manna water to your heart's content." 

So I did. I took one big drink and then another. To drink of life Itself! I was in ecstasy.

Then the light said, "You have a desire." 

The light knew all about me, everything past, present and future.

"Yes!" I whispered.

I asked to see the rest of the universe; beyond our solar system, beyond all human illusion. The light then told me that I could go with the Stream. I did, and was carried through the light at the end of the tunnel. I felt and heard a series of very soft sonic booms. What a rush!

Suddenly I seemed to be rocketing away from the planet on this stream of life. I saw the earth fly away. The solar system, in all its splendor, whizzed by and disappeared. At faster than light speed, I flew through the center of the galaxy, absorbing more knowledge as I went. I learned that this galaxy, and all of the universe, is bursting with many different varieties of LIFE. I saw many worlds. The good news is that we are not alone in this universe! 

As I rode this stream of consciousness through the center of the galaxy, the stream was expanding in awesome fractal waves of energy. The super clusters of galaxies with all their ancient wisdom flew by. At first I thought I was going somewhere; actually traveling. But then I realized that, as the stream was expanding, my own consciousness was also expanding to take in everything in the universe! All creation passed by me. It was an unimaginable wonder! I truly was a wonder child; a babe in Wonderland!

It seemed as if all the creations in the universe soared by me and vanished in a speck of light. Almost immediately, a second light appeared. It came from all sides, and was so different; a light made up of more than every frequency in the universe.

I felt and heard several velvety sonic booms again. My consciousness, or being, was expanding to interface with the entire holographic universe and more.

As I passed into the second light, the awareness came to me that I had just transcended the truth. Those are the best words I have for it, but I will try to explain. As I passed into the second light, I expanded beyond the first light. I found myself in a profound stillness, beyond all silence. I could see or perceive FOREVER, beyond infinity. I was in the void. I was in pre-creation, before the Big Bang. I had crossed over the beginning of time - the first word - the first vibration. I was in the eye of creation. I felt as if I was touching the face of God. It was not a religious feeling. Simply I was at one with absolute life and consciousness.

When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That's a mind-expanding thought, isn't it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event which created the universe. I saw that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by supercomputers using fractal geometry equations.

The ancients knew of this. They said Godhead periodically created new universes by breathing out, and de-creating other universes by breathing in. These epochs were called yugas. Modern science called this the Big Bang. I was in absolute, pure consciousness. I could see or perceive all the Big Bangs or yugas creating and de-creating themselves. Instantly I entered into them all simultaneously. I saw that each and every little piece of creation has the power to create. It is very difficult to try to explain this. I am still speechless about this.

It took me years after I returned to assimilate any words at all for the void experience. I can tell you this now; the void is less than nothing, yet more than everything that is! The void is absolute zero; chaos forming all possibilities. It is absolute consciousness; much more than even universal intelligence.

Where is the void? I know. The void is inside and outside everything. You, right now even while you live, are always inside and outside the void simultaneously. You don't have to go anywhere or die to get there. The void is the vacuum or nothingness between all physical manifestations. The SPACE between atoms and their components. Modern science has begun to study this space between everything. They call it zero-point. Whenever they try to measure it, their instruments go off the scale, or to infinity, so to speak. They have no way, as of yet, to measure infinity accurately. There is more of the zero space in your own body and the universe than anything else!

What mystics call the void is not a void. It is so full of energy, a different kind of energy that has created everything that we are. Everything since the Big Bang is vibration, from the first word, which is the first vibration.

The Biblical "I am" really has a question mark after it.

"I am? What am I?"

So creation is God exploring God's Self through every way imaginable, in an ongoing, infinite exploration through every one of us. Through every piece of hair on your head, through every leaf on every tree, through every atom, God is exploring God's Self, the great "I am". I began to see that everything that is, is the Self, literally, your Self, my Self. Everything is the great Self. That is why God knows even when a leaf falls. That is possible because wherever you are is the center of the universe. Wherever any atom is, that is the center of the universe. There is God in that, and God in the void.

As I was exploring the void and all the yugas or creations, I was completely out of time and space as we know it. In this expanded state, I discovered that creation is about absolute pure consciousness, or God, coming into the experience of life as we know it. The void itself is devoid of experience. It is pre-life, before the first vibration. Godhead is about more than life and death. Therefore there is even more than life and death to experience in the universe!

I was in the void and I was aware of everything that had ever been created. It was like I was looking out of God's eyes. I had become God. Suddenly I wasn't me anymore. The only thing I can say, I was looking out of God's eyes. And suddenly I knew why every atom was, and I could see everything.

The interesting point was that I went into the void, I came back with this understanding that God is not there. God is here. That's what it is all about. So this constant search of the human race to go out and find God ... God gave everything to us, everything is here - this is where it's at. And what we are into now is God's exploration of God through us. People are so busy trying to become God that they ought to realize that we are already God and God is becoming us. That's what it is really about.

When I realized this, I was finished with the void, and wanted to return to this creation, or yuga. It just seemed like the natural thing to do.

Then I suddenly came back through the second light, or the Big Bang, hearing several more velvet booms. I rode the stream of consciousness back through all of creation, and what a ride it was! The superclusters of galaxies came through me with even more insights. I passed through the center of our galaxy, which is a black hole. Black holes are the great processors or recyclers of the universe. Do you know what is on the other side of a black hole? We are; our galaxy; which has been reprocessed from another universe.

In its total energy configuration, the galaxy looked like a fantastic city of lights. All energy this side of the Big Bang is light. Every sub-atom, atom, star, planet, even consciousness itself is made of light and has a frequency and/or particle. Light is living stuff.  Everything is made of light, even stones. So everything is alive. Everything is made from the light of God; everything is very intelligent.

The Light of Love

As I rode the stream on and on, I could eventually see a huge light coming. I knew it was the first light; the Higher Self light matrix of our solar system. Then the entire solar system appeared in the light, accompanied by one of those velvet booms.

I saw that the solar system we live in is our larger, local body. This is our local body and we are much bigger than we imagine. I saw that the solar system is our body. I am a part of this, and the earth is this great created being that we are, and we are the part of it that knows that it is. But we are only that part of it. We are not everything, but we are that part of it that knows that it is.

I could see all the energy that this solar system generates, and it is an incredible light show! I could hear the music of the spheres. Our solar system, as do all celestial bodies, generates a unique matrix of light, sound and vibratory energies. Advanced civilizations from other star systems can spot life as we know it in the universe by the vibratory or energy matrix imprint. It is child's play. The earth's wonder child (human beings) make an abundance of sound right now, like children playing in the backyard of the universe.

I rode the stream directly into the center of the light. I felt embraced by the light as it took me in with its breath again, followed by another soft sonic boom.
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Blessings and Light

Alan McDougall
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Bruce Moen
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Reply #33 - Jan 19th, 2008 at 9:55am
 
To All,

I do not like to have to suspend anyone's posting privileges here and tend to cut folks a lot of slack, but on occasion the person involved leaves me no other choices.  Don (Berserk2) has been suspended for a period of 7 days due to repeated violation of the Posting Guidelines.  

Don's influence is often a welcome asset to these forums for its insightful questions and intelligent discussion.  But I could not in good conscience allow the other side of that influence to continue degenerating threads into painful experiences of name calling and bullying argument for other visitors. It is my hope that upon Don's return things will be better.

You will notice that all of Don's posts to this thread good, bad or indifferent have been removed to the Admin Private Board.  This is a procedural record keeping part of this suspension process.  Those of you who have posted directly to Don in this thread may wish to review your posts for relevance to the topic and modify or delete them.  I will leave that up to each individual.

The Admin  (aka Bruce)
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Re: ESP and the Afterlife
Reply #34 - Jan 19th, 2008 at 11:26am
 
Dave,

When you said:

>>  The only implication for pure logic is that observed ESP phenomena are bound by the same criteria of logical consistency as all other phenomena. That means that we can guess at what's happening, but aside from looking at the logical consistency with other datas, we have nothing solid. <<

Dave, that's the clearest statement of what I too see as the only criteria upon which to base a methodology to gain more understanding of whatever ESP, or appearant afterlife existence is.  I really appreciate your ability to objectively and clearly think through the issues, and distill them down to their essence.  You are in my view absolutely correct, we have nothing solid here that can be measured and tested.  All we have are the many and varied, subjectively gathered "data sets" from a very broad range of observers, each with their own expectations, assumptions, beliefs and other biases that directly influence their perception, analysis and understanding of their own data sets.  

If our goal is to get closer to whatever the Truth is, it is entirely pointless for individual data set providers to argue with others over whose data is correct.  Since the only tool available to us is logical consistency between data sets, progress toward our goal is best served by increasing the number of data sets available and openly sharing whatever our entirely subjective experiences lead each of us to believe we  find.  In my view it matters not one twit that an individual provider may be misinterpreting their experience, deluding themselves, etc. because we are ALL, inescapably, doing that.  

I remember when, as a 19 year old no longer able to accepted the internally conflicting beliefs of my Lutheran upbringing, I naively set out in search of the one, "True" religion.  I examined as many different religions as that pre-Google era allowed time for, but always discovered the same basic problem with every religion I investigated.  They all had at least some internally conflicting, logical inconsistencies within their own belief structures.  Then I began to see something that I felt might at least point in the direction of the one true religion if it existed.  I began to see a pattern of logically consistent, common threads that ran through most all of the religions I studied.  That led me to conclude that whatever set of such beliefs was common to most religions, that set of beliefs was probably closer to whatever the Truth was than any single religion in the group.  And it implied that any new logical inconsistencies between this emerging pattern of internally consistent beliefs and any new beliefs found while investigating a new religion were a challenge to the reality of the emerging pattern.  Such challenges must be resolved or they could invalidate any or all of the beliefs in the emerging pattern.  These challenges became highly prized targets for further investigation.

I gave up my search for an already existing, one true religion and began instead building a belief structure of my own.  Over the years of other kinds of explorations I took on it became my habit to be on the lookout for any of my own experiences that conflicted with my own, developing set of beliefs.  Finding one of these logical inconsistencies within my own experience seemed to automatically trigger an intense desire to dig for more understanding and experience in the hope that the inconsistency would be resolved in some way.  Sometimes I'd discover I had misinterpreted the triggering experience, it was a delusion, or too heavily influenced by my expectations, etc.  Sometimes more experience would only serve to make that inconsistency more glaringly obvious and I'd be forced to change my beliefs to accommodate the implications of that experience (aka belief system crash).  Through it all I recognized I would probably never know and understand enough to have the Truth, but I found it satisfying to just be getting closer to whatever that Truth is.

So, Dave, I completely agree with you.  If we are looking for a methodology by which to gain greater understanding of ESP phenomena, or the reality of survival of consciousness beyond death, logical consistency with other data sets is at the root of that methodology.  And it makes me wonder how we would begin to define what the trunk and branches of the rest of that tree would look like.

Thanks Dave,

Bruce
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Re: ESP and the Afterlife
Reply #35 - Jan 19th, 2008 at 12:44pm
 
Greetings to Pratekya,

You have been here a long time, to remember Chumley and Spitfire !
I've appreciated your posts ever since you started as Pratekya. (  Smiley Now I wonder if you had a previous avatar back when those two you mentionned were active here?)

But your comment about those two makes me wonder if you are as keen a judge of character as your post re: Don asks us to believe. Spitfire, for example, was a sensitive seeker of answers who was driven to extremes by severe pain and deformation that he hoped to find the justice for. He cared enough about spirit to launch his own website dedicated to Spirit in order to seek answers he couldn't find here. His pain was severe enough that he spent a year in the Orient undergoing a torturous procedure that broke his legs in seventeen places !!--and still he sought for Spirit's justice.
To call such a suffering soul 'evil' IMO shows, at the least, a lack of consideration I did not expect from you.

I suspect many Spiritual seekers are driven by some negative personal experience, possibly tragic or traumatic. Those who speak now from a positive fullness of Spirit often received that Spirit after much trauma/suffering also.
I suspect Don and many other souls most active here may also have that motivation.
So how can any be judged as evil when they are so keenly involved in seeking spiritual knowledge?
(I also wonder how anyone can say that any path to the Supreme is wrong when it has provided Spiritual meaning to any wounded souls, but that's not for this thread or you, P.)

We're all learning. We never know enough!

Betson


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Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
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Re: ESP and the Afterlife
Reply #36 - Jan 19th, 2008 at 3:06pm
 
thanks Bruce , its always good to read you. I experienced an emotion this morning complete with the sound of myself crying.
I am not ashamed to be emotional about the well being of this board. I think there was  a time I couldn't say that so I must have grown somewhat.

I may be deluded and still allow myself that delusion for the time being, that we are supplying a need here and making it easier for others to get off their chest the many strange things which conflict with their belief systems.

Dave certainly does put things into perspective for me time and again. I agree Dave, a lite went off when I read what you wrote too. what Dave does for me personally is get me grounded. I fly too high, and he acts to get my feet back on something solid because its like living in two worlds. it can be most distressing.

thank god for this board

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Re: ESP and the Afterlife
Reply #37 - Jan 19th, 2008 at 4:09pm
 
Hi Bets-
I like your perspective. When I do marital work I always point out to people that the reason they are so terribly frustrated with one another is that they are in love. That doesn't always make for happiness, because marriage takes hard work, but it definitely keeps emotions flowing. Wink

Bruce-
I kinda wish I were a better methodologist - I just used to teach the stuff. However, my feeling is that we've tried to get excessively precise and localized, when what we have is more like a spring breeze that sweeps over the hillside, but can't be reliably located at any specific point, nor can we predict what it will do to this bush, that tree, or those clouds forming over there.

From the top of my head this morning, if we want to view this on a wide screen, so to say, then one option would be to gather a lot of individual experiences by class, using cluster analytic math. This can be analyzed with Bayesian estimates. This does not provide "proof" in the sense of a controlled experiment, but it gives predictive data against which we can test observations, with a null hypothesis of chance correlations.

The value of this kind of approach is that we can define the clusters rather arbitrarily, so long as they are populated reasonably. That allows soul retrievals, hypnotic regression, meditative epiphanies, CS skill building, and whatever else, all to be defined in their own terms, and then reduced to numeric frequencies which could be later manipulated.

To do that kind of thing would require us to establish a collection of commonly observed attributes for cluster sorting, from which to pick our favorites. My preference would be to try to find natural sets that are statistically discriminable, This is just a matter of lots correlations on the data set so that clusters would separate along lines of greatest variance.

In all of this, my personal fear is that we lack a sufficient number of samples. As a rule of thumb, any set of 30 or more data will be normally distributed (because Student's t deviates from normalcy by less than .01 for n=30) so any kind of analytic work would hopefully have at least 30 members of any subset cluster. However, this might be made up by sampling workshops, or by running a general questionnaire on the forum.

That's about all that comes to me today. (I feel that I should now give the pages of next week's readings and the date of the Midterm.)

I find it interesting that your background took you through so many different religions. I was a malcontent who got sent to a military school to "fix" my attitude. (It didn't. I set some kind of school record for marching punishment tours - 50 minutes walking the quad carrying my rifle. I even wound up in charge of some of the extra-duty details.) One of the profs sensed that I was "restless" and rather than advising me, he mentioned that he once had a friend who had more or less worked his way through all available religions prior to coming to his own conclusions.  My personal search took me into the Haight-Ashbury area and a few years as a hippie, until the authorities closed down my kitchen lab and suggested that immediate employment would probably be better than a long vacation at state expense. I took the hint and went back into electronics, and later, to school. There's definitely a great deal to be said for a wide scope in belief systems. Smiley

Incidently  - thanks for the forum!

dave
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