recoverer wrote on Jan 15^th, 2008 at 4:55pm:


No it would not. He freely admits that he is a 'Filter' and can lose the translations.
In fact when I read a couple of his books it got me going in a sense.
Things like: "Listen to your Soul"...."Ask and expect answers..."
What is wrong with that? It got me going again.
It got me going back to listening to that still quite voice in my head once again.
I see no harm in this man.
You need to actually READ his books to fully understand them.
Not just skim them in a book store...
READ them with an Open Mind and not a pre-set 'tude' toward this man.

I don't take every word from him as truth. I don't with ANYone.
Each one of us has our OWN realities.  Our OWN view point in which we 'see' as real.

I will not sit in judgement of this man. I have not walked in his shoes.

In the end we have to fall back and trust our own guidance what to believe. and I don't mean in a dogmatic sense to be pretending we know everything so that must mean we're god. it means we have to be in listening mode all the time. theres a thing called cognitive thinking which considers ALL possibilities that could happen. just to consider that having free will, self expression here, means like murphys law for awhile....anything that could go wrong, what do you know, it does. thats the same thing as somebody said man's plans are made to go astray.
kinda pessimistic of me huh? well things do go wrong, so it seems until we learn to ask and receive from a higher level of need and want. and that is one function of order that is quite logical and also works.
I'm getting to the good part! 

everybody here is having their own guidance or inner voice and Blink is making a point which Monroe makes "there is no bad, there is no good." crap happens, they made a bumper sticker from that!
therefore it's about self expression and sticking your hand in the fire to see if it's hot, that happens alot, it's the risk factor of living here that we live and learn.
I wont bore you with my adventures, but it took me two prayers and an hour and a half to get up the courage to light my hot water heater so I wouldn't have to call someone.
actually, my guides gave me instructions in a dream by showing me the thing was already lit and my fear prevented me to walk into that reality where it was already lit. thats what I call the inner guidance is there if you figure you want to get over your fear, whatever it is. Other people's writings are important only if you are not feeling "less than" them, but I think it's more important to write your own book and stick your hand in the fire once in awhile just to see if you can accomplish it.


along the lines of R's question I think of his vision also, where he saw there are forces have everything under divine order here, whether we recognize it or not.

this has been my experience. all the "bad" things that happened in my life were only bad until I understood the good that came out of them, much later. I think of that poem about the man who asked god where were you when I needed you? there were foot steps in the sand up until I went through the worst part of my life, where were you god?

then in the final stanza god voice says that is when I picked u up and carried you, thats why there were only one set of footprints in the sand then.

as for the existence of pure evil..I don't believe in absolutes, I do believe that on this Earth plane anything can happen, and its only bad if you don't understand what it says about you yourself. so I couldn't believe there are demons who have power over me, because I can see a demon as insubstantial in import, as having no power to influence what is made by god, and so a demon is like an illusion that seems real but upon examination, it has no affinity with truth, or god and must feast on a human's terror to make it more lively. fear feeds it's appearance. sending it to the light means the darkness disappears.

its the same with books...some will deal with left brain, some will deal with right brain, some with both, but they are limited to the person's personal experience and perceptions. Book burning is not the call. Praying for the right book is a good idea because there's so many books out there.
I used to be a seminar junkie too. Now, you talk about being a junkie! ha! you wouldn't believe how many folks, with self expression freedom will feed you whatever, and I burned out quickly on that route! thought I was like Dood here, "what kind of hell is this?" haha!  well it hurt too. but the intuition, the prayer will be answered which book, or which seminar, mostly when you're so far down, you can't tell which is up.
very effective to be on one's knees to pray. you will get it.

I think each person is like a parallel universe. everything they say, channelled or not channelled from god is true for them and happened that way, in their world, in their own dimension of time and space. whats true for one is not necessarily true for another. and I suppose you've heard of the "edited" version? 

so u use a prayer and discernment when you put something into your house of consciousness, and u use your heart intelligence.
and theres nothing like being totally burned out and having god step in and pick u up because you just can't go on.
thats when u start believing in miracles.

Blink:

It isn't like we're talking about higher math or rocket science, so it isn't a matter of logic.

It is more a matter of using my "common sense" and what my experience tells me. If somebody like Walsch claims that God told him things that just don't add up, am I supposed to lose all faith in my common sense, and just go with it?

I don't mind if a person shares what they found out, as long as they don't pretend to be something they aren't.  What I disagree with is when a source claims to be an all knowing infallible source of information, when it isn't. By claiming that he channels God, Walsch claims that he is sharing information that is infallible.

YOU CAN'T JUST SIMPLY ACCEPT EVERYTHING PEOPLE TRY TO SELL YOU, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SELLING ROTTEN EGGS!

P.S. Alan asked what people think, so I answered.

I'd have to say that having read Walsch's books they came across very well if at a usually physical C1 level - it wasn't like I found myself disagreeing, and his stuff is put really well.

That said I had a look at the subsequent website and would be quite cautious about the direction both he and his organisation were heading in terms of direct action in the world. Being (even a very good) channel doesn't mean you necessarily have what it takes to be a teacher or spiritual leader.

As before this issue of teachers and what we believe is like keeping clothes on a kid that's growing up. It's possible to get hung up on wearing a particular item or outfit, but it's not very sensible. We should anyway be growing out of outfits pretty quickly.

Staying light, open and rational is surely the key - meditation helps so much. Too much especially too intense intellectualisation risks blocking the heart or the intuitive side. As we grow, as our heart opens and as our understanding becomes more subtle what we believe must evolve. Hopefully we're not going to find ourselves getting far off path and needing to reboot the whole lot - intensity and grasping are the big causes of this possibility. As we open the teachings we need will also evolve, and become more subtle.

The point is surely not to get hung up about one or the other, but as the Zen saying goes 'care but not care'. Care just enough to learn and carefully apply what's relevant, but stay light enough that it doesn't close the heart or block the ability to adjust views.

We don't need to get so bought into and hung up on a teacher that it becomes all or nothing. Meaning that we either make an over the top and not very rational overcommitment, or swing to the other pole and equally compulsively rubbish everything he (or she) says. This is the egotistical grasping or attachment that Buddhism talks about so often in action - we get ourselves into a place where changing our view or our beliefs involves a loss of something - comfort, face through being seen to be wrong, a prop, a means to be holier than thou, a belief that subtly allows us to continue doing wrong - whatever.

A healthy approach might be to pearl fish, especially at the start - draw what resonates and what feel right from the teacher. It's only with more and more experience and insight that we may choose to gradually  ramp up our level of trust and commitment. (inability to commit where it's merited is another form of grasping)

Get the real deal and you can commit 100% in a 1:1 relationship, but that's not so easily done or demonstrated....

Hi Guys,

As the one who started this thread I must say your well thought out replies really impressed me. I really resonate with what recoverer said,

Alan

It's unlikely we can manage a relationship with infinite mind Alan, but it's certainly the case that an emanation of infinite mind can find a way to communicate via a human if it so desires.

The human though is not as Alysia suggests not necessarily going to be some obviously 'divine' individual. Probably by  definition not.

Because if such an individual appeared in the world in an instantly recognisable form ( followed around by a horde of angels with trumpets, for example) all and sundry would instantly slip into relating to this individual as a God - based on all sorts of egotistically derived fear, adoration, 'better get this dude on my side', 'my guy is holier than your guy' or whatever. There'd probably even be a row betwen the major religions to claim him/her. The point is that this far from assisting us to develop would have the opposite effect.

It's not by accident that in life the prompt is always available if we can hear it, the opportunity to develop is always available if we will take it. But that it's always our choice, always led by our seeing and ability to connect - it's never forced on us because that doesn't work. We have to make the first move, but that requires our being open.

It's not by accident either that the likes of Jesus, the Buddha and so on were to most bog ordinary people that happened to have a message to deliver. The point is that for the vast majority of people they were loons ranting on street corners, or even worse threats to be eliminated. (Jesus was crucified, the Buddha was the victim of several attempts at poisoning)

It's in the end about our taking responsibility for ourselves, and out of our own resonance with teaching taking it on board and acting on it to help us to live in a loving manner. Or not.

The ego needs of the subsequent centuries of the religious have effectively deified both of the above teachers. And those same needs ensure that people today also need their teachers up on a similar pedestal if they are to take them seriously. But 'seriously' is inevitably the sort of ego driven response outlined above. Until we drop enough ego to open we can't respond as we should, or at least could. And if we get to that point we don't need our teachers on a pedestal because the real action happens within ourselves.

For this sort of reasoning it's not necessary that Walsch is in some way infallible, in some way divine. But he said a lot that resonates, that's important for the world. Why do we feel such a need to get stuck into the usual 'hero or zero' stuff?? To make him and others like him a saint or a sinner, but never anything in between? That's the dualistic rubbish the the tabloid press go on with with sports stars.

Why not simply draw on what resonates in what he writes while treating him as an ordinary person who may or may not have been used as a channel, no more, no less. If his stuff continues to stack up over time then we can assign more confidence and capability to him....

Alysia:

I agree that many of us can make contact with light beings, but this doesn't mean there aren't any fakes. It would be quite unrealistic to expect that fakes don't exist.  I believe your choice of the words gossip and bashing is a bit unfair and off base. If fakes don't want to be exposed, then perhaps they shouldn't become "FAKES." Would you consider it realistic for a person who takes part in another con game, perhaps a person who sells real estate that doesn't exist, to suggest that nobody should ever, ever, ever expose them, because that would be unloving? Should we allow them to just dupe whoever they feel like duping? Dupe, dupe, dupe away!

I do agree with you when you referrred to the message I received.  Despite how many fakes exist, there are still light beings who look out for us, and in the end they'll have the final say.  Perhaps it would be easier for them to do so, if fake sources didn't pass out false information.





LaffingRain wrote on Jan 16^th, 2008 at 3:12pm:

Recoverer,

Say "fake" "fake" "fake" a million times.

Will it really make the "bad guy" go away?

love, blink