Conversation Board - Mindfreak Criss Angel

Justin aka asltaomr

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #15 - Jan 10^th, 2008 at 11:58pm

Even then, even when one presents "facts" or "proofs" to others, people can and will still doubt, people will still disbelieve.

There was this guy a long time ago who did all sorts of unusual things like walk on water, completely heal bad cases of sickness and even death on occasion, and all sorts of uncommon in his day, kind of stuff.

Yet how many, even some of his friends and followers, doubted him at different points? And the masses, and the other so called spiritual experts of his day kept saying, "more, more, more, we need more proof before accepting.." Look how many having after witnessed what they considered "miraculous" occurrences, later on doubted what they saw and experienced? Talked themselves, or others talked them out of believing it.

For most, it was never enough. It's so easy for us to convince ourselves contrary to what is considered by the masses as the norm. Such is the nature of beliefs and how they influence perception.

Thankfully, we're a little more open collectively speaking, nowadays, but only just a little for the most part.

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Rondele

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #16 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 11:53am

Hi Raj-

Just a couple of points....first, the contestant on Phenomenon was actually attempting to make the audience think he was receiving communication, via automatic writing, from someone in the afterlife. Criss Angel (and thank goodness for him!) demonstrated to everyone that the guy was in fact a phony.

Also, a few months ago you mentioned the death of Sean Taylor and asked if someone could contact him. I'm wondering- have you been able to contact Sean? Has anyone contacted Sean that you know of? I find it interesting that folks who claim they can contact the afterlife always decline when someone, like yourself, asks that they do so. Instead, they almost always tell you to do it yourself. That's like asking a plumber to fix a leak in your house and instead he tells you to read a book on soldering copper tubing.

Chuck raises some good questions. He asks what we know now that we didn't know a year ago. I would add this to his question- what do we know now that we didn't know 10 years ago, or 100 years ago for that matter?

The most honest answer to these questions is that we really don't know anything. We have lots of anecdotal information, lots of speculations and theories, but absolutely nothing that can be replicated by a third party. Until this can be done, we'll have to take claims about the afterlife strictly on faith.

There's nothing wrong with that. Faith is an important ingredient to our lives, as is trust. But these should not be conflated with evidence.

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recoverer

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #17 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 1:35pm

Justin.

I figure the way to really know about the fella you're speaking about, is within one's heart. This fella seemed to speak as if signs are secondary to an inner understanding of who he is and what he is about.

Quote:

Even then, even when one presents "facts" or "proofs" to others, people can and will still doubt, people will still disbelieve.

There was this guy a long time ago who did all sorts of unusual things like walk on water, completely heal bad cases of sickness and even death on occasion, and all sorts of uncommon in his day, kind of stuff.

Yet how many, even some of his friends and followers, doubted him at different points? And the masses, and the other so called spiritual experts of his day kept saying, "more, more, more, we need more proof before accepting.." Look how many having after witnessed what they considered "miraculous" occurrences, later on doubted what they saw and experienced? Talked themselves, or others talked them out of believing it.

For most, it was never enough. It's so easy for us to convince ourselves contrary to what is considered by the masses as the norm. Such is the nature of beliefs and how they influence perception.

Thankfully, we're a little more open collectively speaking, nowadays, but only just a little for the most part.

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blink

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #18 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 2:33pm

The truth cannot be found this way, Don.

You know that.

Why would you keep asking people for the impossible?

Why not go directly to the ultimate source?

Who, better than you?

love, blink

Berserk2 wrote on Jan 10^th, 2008 at 8:33pm:

Most of you are ducking the crucial point. Once it is repeatedly demonstrated and replicated that mediums mistake information gleaned via ESP as direct contact with the dead, then the burden of proof rests with those who need to believe that supposedly channeled verifications need not be explained in this way. Only the rigid dogmatism of New Age fundamentalism would draw a different conclusion. Of course, I am open to the possibility that, in rare cases, some channeled material might not be satisfactorily explained as ESP from living minds.
The rampant tendency of New Agers to overlook the relative merits of various forms of afterlife evidence (NDEs, ADCs, OBEs, etc.) undermines the credibility of their witness to their own experiences (e.g. their ability to distinguish lucid dreams from astral experiences and the proneness of some to hallucinations fueled by wishful thinking). The old cliche, "consider ther source," is essential wisdom for experiential pretensions of esoteric knowledge. I want this site to advance the case for afterlife survival. Generally, it effectively makes the opposite case by its naivite and the chronic unwillingness of posters to read literature from other disciplines that challenges their naive consensus.

Don

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hawkeye

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #19 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 3:00pm

Asethaa, One place you can communicate with others you know(or will know) can be found by doing a course offered at TMI (Monroe) called "Exploration 27. Infoemation can be found on their web site. Although this is far from the only place this is possable , it is one way. I am sure that Bruces books could offer you a way to get there also. Communication is not only possable with those living and joining you in the "park" but is also avalable with those who are no longer in body. This includes family, friends, helpers, others you may want to help, etc. You may also find some of the posts made in the partnered exploration area of interest.
(this communication should not be confused with channeling, this threads subject)
Joe

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Berserk2

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #20 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 3:00pm

Chuck,

What you contribute in your recent post urgently needs to be said on this site. New Agers here imagine that I am judgmental, unfriendly, or driven by a hidden agenda. But all I seek is a minimal display of rationality that can potentially advance the case for an afterlife. Progress is seriously blocked by the inability or unwillingness to sustain an attention span. The subject of this thread is channeling, and many posters wrongly construe challenges of its merits as an attack agains all forms of afterlife exploration. Also, it is frankly cultic to hide behind unverifiable personal experiences, as if subjective certainty cannot be rightly challenged. I have probably had as many paranormal experierces as anyone on this site. In addition, I have had OBE and retrieval experiences that were subjectively certain at the time. Only later, when I confronted my need to believe, did it dawn on me that they were merely lucid dreams of OBEs and nothing more. Subjective experience is worthless for public dialogue if the credibility of the percipient is not confronted. Some are prone to hallucinations, self-delusions, and wishful thinking and are therefore not insulated from legitimate skepticism. In an atmosphere of mindless tolerance, the discerning public will rightly dismiss astral claims as the product of cultic kookery. The courage to doubt is a prerequisite for true knowledge.

The quest for proof seems unrealistic. But the quest for "persuasive" anecdotal and research evidence remains promising. The myopic focus of the New Age ghetto prevents many from reading scholarly books in fields like parapsychology that challenge their preconceptions. As a result, they lazily restrict their research to idiosyncratic blogs that do not reflect the intelligent research of mainstream investigators. Not surprisingly, then, we get posters who imagine themselves to be the reincarnation of St. Peter, posters who are so ill-informed about European history that they believe Hitler was controlled by nameless Puppet Masters, and posters who think we should welcome any experiences without critique, sing Kum Bah Yah, and thus bog down this site in ever increasingly cultic conformity. So, Chuck, we need your voice to enhance the sanity of this site.

Don

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blink

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #21 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 3:05pm

Don said,
"The courage to doubt is a prerequisite for true knowledge."

Excellent point.

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be satisfied."

Someone very important is waiting for you. Right? Why are you waiting? Why the delay?

love, blink

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Berserk2

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #22 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 6:00pm

blink,

Many on this site would like to believe that my experience of the paranormal is severely limited. In fact, as I've repeatedly reminded people, my paranormal experiences are awesome and continuous. I lead a small group in my church that shares and analyzes some of these experiences. Our group members have an honest and open spiritual quest that makes them open to and eager for the requisite interdisciplinary approach.

For example, Leah's car slipped into a remote ditch in a blizzard in NE Washington state. Suddenly a tow truck pulled up and towed her out of the ditch. The driver drove off without asking payment. More signficantly, the driver's towtruck left no tracks in the heavy snow! Leah's experience is a textbook example of miraculous angelic intervention, no matter how "angelic" is understood.

Dpn

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blink Ex Member	Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel Reply #23 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 6:27pm That's an amazing story about Leah, Don. I would say that is astounding. So, your group members have an honest and open spiritual quest. They study hard. That's great! I wonder what they have that we don't have here? I'm so completely puzzled.... love, blink
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Vicky

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #24 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 6:37pm

So Don,

Why are you here on this site, hanging around for as long as you have? Is your goal in life to change the world one website at a time? I'm very curious to know what other websites you infiltrate with your viewpoints and goals of saving everyone's sanity!

There's a group of us who feel at home here because we come here together to share and learn and support. We don't, however, go knock on your front door and hold meetings in your living room. You probably wouldn't like that.

I'm just wondering why your continuing mission here on this site is to change our minds, beliefs, and viewpoints. Your word choice continues to remain belittling and obviously trying to demonstrate your superiority of the rest of us.

Surely what you seek, "a minimal display of rationality that can potentially advance the case for an afterlife" can be found in any number of other websites. Other places might make you more happy than what we are able to provide. So why stick around here? Just curious, honestly.

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Author of Persephone's Journey (Amazon.com)

http://www.vickyshort.blogspot.com/

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blink

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #25 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 6:56pm

I just had an idea, Don.

Why don't you ask your group to pray for us? Ask them to pray that the angels, Jesus, God, however it fits in with their belief system, will allow us to deliver irrefutable proof of an afterlife for the world, right here on this website.

These people are obviously talented, or in touch with spirit in some wonderful way. I have no reason to doubt it.

I respect them, and I respect you. I have no reason whatsoever to think that we all can't make this happen. Why shouldn't we?

love, blink

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recoverer

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #26 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 6:57pm

In response to what Vicky wrote, since this forum is called "Afterlife Knowledge," as opposed to being named after a particular way of looking at things, I believe it is okay that Don is here. Sometimes I don't agree with him, but that's okay.

Regarding what members have or haven't experienced, it is up to each person to decide for his or herself if his or her experiences are valid.

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hawkeye

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #27 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 7:16pm

Don... Ya know how I hate that"my church" stuff... It's not God's church I guess? You didn't happin to have some sort of a clairvoyant message telling you that the masses should be following your beliefs in "your" church did ya? I do love the story though...I had a similar thing happin to me when I was young and living on the streets as a hippy. I was hitchin through the center of BC in the mountains during the winter time. I had been stuck on the side of the road all night and haden't had a meal in a few days. I was desperate. I was outside of this diner and in the morning a man came in and opened up the place. I got up the courage to go inside and ask him if he would sell me a coffee for the 11 cents I had to my name. He looked at me and laughed as he kicked my cold and hungry butt out the door. As I left the place I demanded that God prove himself to me and made the threat to give my soul to the devil. As I left the parking lot kicking and brushing the dust from my shoes I expearenced hate like I have never had before. As I got to the highway a car approached and stopped to pick me up. In the drivers seat was a man dressed as a priest. He let me in and let me warm up for a few minutes before driving down the road. He asked why I seamed so upset and I explained my anger though not the part about demanding proof from God. Over the next hill was a all night gas and grub place. He took me in and sat me down. Told me I could have what ever I wanted. I asked him who he was and he told me that he was the one who worked in this area. That was all and off he went. After I finished my meal and went up to the counter to ask who this man was. They told me that they had never seen him before but that for some reason felt obligated to feed me and allow me to stay as long as I needed to warm up. He didn't pay them and nor would I need to pay. They just sort of smiled and sent me on my way. I new at that moment the reality of God and of the Holy Spirit. Never have I doupted the existence from that second on. My understanding is that God dosen't need nor want anyone, you or I, to go down to the corner or to a building to offer a sacrifice unto him. That you only will find God within your own heart and that the best place to offer your love unto him is from within. Ideas like "your church" scare the pants off me and remind me of the worship of false idols and misdirected beliefs. I did like the story.
I don't want to see Don go anywhere. As much as I disagree with you(him) and what you believe sometimes, you do belong here just as any one else.
Joe

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Rondele

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #28 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 7:19pm

I for one hope Don stays. He challenges us to think and to be rigorous in our own beliefs. Nothing wrong with that.

I suppose Don and a few others like him could go to other websites. But then this one would be pretty monolithic and predictable.

I do know that Bruce encourages folks to think for themselves and not to be influenced by him or his writings. That, I think, is a far more mature approach than to encourage Don to leave.

R

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Rondele

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Re: Mindfreak Criss Angel
Reply #29 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 7:28pm

Joe-

Great story. It seems as tho guardian angels (call them what you will) have a knack of showing up just at the right time. My own life as a child was saved by one, and fortunately I had a witness to the whole event. I will go to my grave convinced that had she not shown up when she did, I would not be alive today. Btw, she disappeared just as quickly as she appeared, driving up from out of nowhere alongside the road where a friend and I were attacked. She and her car disappeared after she ran the attacker away.

You might enjoy this story. I heard Telly tell it on a radio show many years ago. He was totally sincere in telling the story, and while he might have been making the whole thing up, I doubt it. In those days, any aspiring actor who came up with such a story would probably have been labeled a kook and no doubt would have had lots of trouble getting work.

http://www.underworldtales.com/telly.htm

R

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