My parents are in their 90s and by definition approaching the end of the road. I've meanwhile had a few brushes with death, most recently through illness. Recoverer has meanwhile been posting about soul.

I've been thinking about some of the differing views on the above, and would appreciate hearing what you guys have to say on the subject of survival. And what experience you have to back it up.

Buddhism in essence seems to say that it's higher primordial/dharmakaya/absolute mind/awareness that's immortal, and that the characteristics that go to make up what we'd regard as a personal self are subject to ongoing change, have no permanence and transmit via karma - in the form of both mind tendencies, biology and evolving life situation.

Realisation its said puts one beyond the influence of karma, but also allows one to if required out of e.g. compassion for other humans to reincarnate (as multiple reincarnations/emanations at once if required) from the dharmakaya or absolute reality into a body in the world complete with at least certain attributes from previous lives. Which implies that this reality is far from being just an amporphous timeless blur.

Such an incarnation still has to learn to live in this reality and achieve realisation as we all do, although they are said to quickly achieve both. (there's a lot written about the amazing behaviours of reincarnations which can show remarkable knowledge and powers as children) I've no information beyond the above which in essence summarises what's generally taught as undergone by Tibetan Rinpoches or reincarnated teachers.

The bit i've no idea what the teaching on is whether or not the unrealised can also store in and transmit anything via the dharmakaya/higher mind/the absolute. We all embody primordial awareness however. Do you know anything about this Dave, Blink, anybody?

This is quite an important point because those positing an immortal soul suggest a range of possibilities. At one extreme this soul will contain all personal characteristics, and allows for reincarnation of more or less an exact physical and mind replica of self - even if this is in the afterlife.

ACIM seems to be close to the Buddhist view, saying that essentially everything to do with ego is unreal and lost on death, but seeming to say (hope I have it right) that essential attributes are retained in the absolute.

Others such as the Urantia Book I seem to recall suggest that what we learn through love is replicated in the absolute and retained with our piece of God/soul, but that anything selfish dies with the body. i.e. a wholly egotistical person will essentially die or at least transmit nothing much beyond physical death.

We could say there are four elements in play (maybe you guys have a better definition?) - physical body, thinking brain-based intellect and learning, higher/absolute mind and learning/primordial awareness, and karma.

What do you guys figure happens to each of these in the case of the death of an unrealised person? Do we have any experience to verify it?

It might be best to first off suggest a different division if needed.

I can lead off from the Buddhist perspective:

Physical body and brain based intellect/learning are lost.
Karmic influences from past lives determine both birth and life circumstances and mind tendencies, but change continuously as they play out.
Its possible that certain attributes transmit via higher mind/awareness/dharmakaya/the absolute

My most relevant experience is a 100% clear separation of brain based intellect/thinking mind from awareness (can't be sure if it's the higher variety)  in meditation.

What do you guys think?

based on just what we can call medium tendencies and obe tendencies also, I can stick to experiences as these seem to be what folks understand best.

my experiences are in what I call the astral areas or we could say focus levels 10 on up to 27 and once in awhile focus 33.

when I obed and dreamed I was dead was a time I was just beginning to do retrievals in conscious manner with phasing. there was a very real sense that I was "released". actually, in physical reality, I was freed from a role where I was realizing I was playing the role of my mother's daughter whom wished to win her love.
so you may see here that the daughter role died. In the roles we play in life a large belief system complete with attendant expectations, emotions, desires, is built into a role that we as spirit put on, and essentially, my mother and I had become room mates, in one swift moment when I realized she was incapable of being the mother I had expected her to be for 55 years. I released the need to attain her love and she presented to me her inability in this matter.

actually a burden was lifted from the heart to complete the karmic ties with her, and realize we are spirit which dons different roles life after life. so I was floating out there in the obe feeling rather free at first, noting I was no longer attached to whatever I had been attached to.

I had no memories at this level just a sense that was of the adventurous sort, in my essence which must always seek interaction with others and communication.

so perhaps we can say the memories are saved as the akashic records, and what changes in death is the roles we play, as we can come back and play different roles to one another. waking up was strange the next day as it felt like a new life was to begin and it really was all new.

also my grandmother, deceased retained her form and acted as guide to my mother, we both could see in our mind's eye her form living with us in the house. when I established contact with her, I asked her to change into her younger self for my sake to see. she did and was at once a young lovely woman. then I asked why she did not retain her youthful appearance? she replied mother had an image of her older self as she looked just before she died, and that mother would have difficulty remembering her youthful appearance.

so we are not talking about an enlightened, self realized family..just down home folks in my family, bunch of rowdies actually but admirable in a sort of rough way.

my sister died young, at 38 or so, and was astral bound for a number of years before I knew consciously to help her get on. she also took the form of a 13 yr old younger version of herself to appear to mother whom failed to recognize it was her. my sister haunted the family a bit, until she could contact me and settle our differences via a conversation. then she went to live on I think focus 27, she had a house, I saw it, she had a new beau, it could have been focus 23 though. but it was definetely a rise for her from the lower astral to something better.

and so I'm not answering the question you brought up very well Ian.

I have heard from another explorer that his parents he has contacted whom passed over and he said they were not as emotional as they had been in life but they were still together and were pleasant to him.

I think perhaps in relationship to Buddism, we can say where we have been defines to some degree where we are headed, in that our experiences produce an essence, which experience cannot be the whole of us, but we distill our characters from the many experiences and roles we play life after life.
I'm reading of root races at present. apparently the 6th and 7th root race has begun its work of evolvement here, these are the ones who were born after 1900, these are the ones who can reach enlightenment the quicker.
some say there are nine root races, just depends which book.

a personal self versus an impersonal self, I don't know what that means. you'll have to explain it better Ian.
Basically PUL runs the universe and it adds to a soul, but does not take anything away from a soul, so I don't see loss in the term, personal loss of self. in enlightenment an expansion of awareness occurs instead of a contraction of awareness and I would think on the other side, a continuation of this expansion process occurs, what is started on this side.
there are a loss of anger, hatred, and lust upon death in a process where the emotional body, as these are building blocks, these are real material of finer nature, does disintegrate gradually within the lower astral field, which I am sure my sister was trying to burn off all her bitterness over dying young and she finally did. also while she did this sloughing off of her hurt and anger, she took care of abused horses, and was burning off some karmic thing doing that, as she had a great love of horses.

while the self is being cleansed, it feels like part of you is dying, because we get so attached to the idea that an emotion, or a role is us. so it wants to live. if it's no longer useful and slows us down, it has to break away from us, and I think the Buddhist are talking about the negatives are dying, but whatever is a fruit of the soul endures along with the sense "I am."

what I think this is, is a person begins to realize they own their soul, but before claiming ownership they may go thru very difficult trials.

thanks George. u reminded me, I came in contact with my twins souls 7 years before they were born to me. I recognized them when they were born. they used to pull on my legs to get me to come out of body.
I also recognized my husband to be a year before we were married by a stream of light in the eyes, and the room sounds disappeared for a second and I knew we would be together.

Monroe met his future self also in his books. he met a past self with the name Munroe, spelled with a u instead of an o...so there is something to predestination.

Hi,

We retain the same awareness, consciousness and continue as a unique being forever. We are not absorbed into the universal mind, source call it what you may. The Buddha concept of loss of self is no different to eternal death or elimination of the spirit and soul and is a horrifying concept from which that all people flee.  I did not neon to sit in a cave for twenty years contemplating about an existence and place that I will only know for sure is real when I die. I could sit and meditate forever on the city of Istanbul, but until I have been there myself will never know if my contemplations and visions about this remote place from my perspective were true or not.

I know I dont have to muse, hypostatize, postulate about he continuation of my self and my beloved ones that have passed over before me. I have died , retained my  knew I has  still Alan over there and my parents greeted me in a way in my brief sojourn in a loving way that I could still recognize them. Maybe further into the death experience one change and evolves into a higher exalted state of spiritual energetic awareness Alan

Regards

Alan

Good post Vee.
May I suggest something with out sounding 'lordy'?
Could you break up your posts a bit into paragraphs? It is hard for me to read them and I like to read your thoughts.
Far be it from me that I am some expert on grammar. My kids and Mrs Dood love to point that out to me.

As for on topic: What I would like to know is how did the 'Centers' in focus 27 look lets say 100 years ago. 200 years...500 years?

Did they have high tech looking screens then?  I would not 'think' so.  
Was everything on a Scoll back in Roman days for example?
Has anyone that has traveled there asked about this?
Like the 'Re-Entry Tower'.  Was it a tower back then or some kind of wooden machinery?
A 'mill' that squeezed us down to a curl?

I always think of weird stuff like this.  I assume since we are a TV generation things would look like what we are use too.

Thanks for your thoughts and wonderful summary of it all, Vajra, you put it all so well. What is always so nice is to see that everybody is thinking about it all and I wonder if we will ever know the answer really, even when we leave our bods. And I will start paragraphing, Dood, thanks for mentioning that, I agree it's hard to read all in one big bunch. I've really enjoyed this thread and reading everybody's thoughts.

Vee, I'm glad u posted about how we create the afterlife, I'd been trying to say that, but you put it into perspective for me.   darn, I can almost see forever!!!

When we go to sleep at night,we have no idea of time.its like we do not excist.Than we wake up.Lots of people die in there sleep,and this makes me wounder.maybe we will go to the spirit world,and stay there for a 1000 years earthtime,after the 1000 years we might want to go back to earth for another life.then we wake up as a new born baby,and start another lifetime here.but we will forget about being in the spirit world.1000 years is a long time,but to us its the first time we have been here.right or wrong