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Possible Cosmic Cycle (Read 12188 times)
Alan McDougall
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Re: Possible Cosmic Cycle
Reply #30 - Dec 28th, 2007 at 1:07am
 
Dave,


I am confident that I grasp what you have proposed in this thread. I said that entropy always wins, yes it causes our physical bodies to disassemble, but the illusionary matter or energy of our body continues to exist "forever" out there in the great “somewhere” and “somewhen”.

I said in one of my replies to you that the particle smashers will ultimately not find the ultimate fundamental particle, but a “meme” or thought on the great fabric of the awareness of the infinite one we call God. Thus, we are all thought creations or "thoughts" in the mind of God.

However, we are not God, but somewhat like him in our finite awareness. We remain finite and in that sense are as far removed from this awesome source of existence,  as the lowly virus.

You see, Dave, we have being saying the same things in our different manner, in that we are not matter, it is an illusion and that in your words we are really “information” in the divine mind and in my words “thoughts” in this same source.

Spiritually we exist forever as separate awareness’s from God but have access to the awesome infinite mind, somewhat like we now do within the internet, but of course infinitely superior.

Eternity, forever and infinity all qualities that can only apply to God and do not relate to something like linear time etc etc..

Alan
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LaffingRain
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Re: Possible Cosmic Cycle
Reply #31 - Dec 28th, 2007 at 1:24am
 
Dave Quote: What I am suggesting has nothing to do with "matter" as we usually think of it. Actually, nobody even knows what "matter" is. The best current opinion is Einstein who equated mass properties with geometry, so that the Moon thinks it;'s going in a straight line, while the Earth's gravity curves space so that it stays in orbit, and the controversial disassembly of subatomic particles into Lie symmetry groups on the exceptional simple Lie manifold E8 by E Garrett Lisi a couple months back. In other words, we can reduce reality to geometry.
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about geometry, I think you're right. my daughter had a vivid dream of dancing with an alien guide, who then gave her a box of geometric shaped, colored stones.
we didn't know the significance, but if the universe is based on geometry, it is an orderly universe as opposed to chaos.
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dave said:
The only way we can identify mass is that it curves space. What we see is not the mass, but the behavior of space and other things in it. In exactly the same way, if what we call reality were nothing but a Divine Delusion that we are made of matter, when actually we are made of thoughts, so long as the thoughts interact the way that matter would, we can't tell the difference.
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in the same way, if we died suddenly, we might not know the difference between life in a physical body and life in a nonphysical body because for a while, everything seems normal.
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Dave said
Given a world in which everything is made of some kind of abstract stuff, I'll call it information, and by dragging Claude Shannon's work into the discussion, I call it entropy.  But in the end it's just dream stuff. That's why, as well as how, we dream up the reality in which we pass the time between embodiments, and in my estimation the only things that make life seem different is that other people share the dream while we are here.
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I agree we dream while awake or while asleep. yet I think there is a plan, and each have an outline or intentions they wish to perform or fulfill. we don't always accomplish what we wish 100%, but I always say no life is wasted from the overview. am just rambling, its late! love chatting with you Dave.
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I am proposing that reality is no more than a dream, and that the extended parts are simply parts of the dream that preceeded us, and thus are parts of the dream upon which we depend for our existence. That way we can't change them. Given that idea, it isn't too hard to think of ways that this universe could propagate itself. And, by looking at all time as one instant common to all existences everywhere and everywhen, what we see is a universal propagation of boundless reality emergent from the location of the "Uncaused Cause".
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I am proposing that reality is a finger thrust into the pie, and when we get home we get to eat the whole thing by ourself. I want cherry. I believe when a step up in frequency of higher thought occurs that Dave is right on again, there is a boundless quality to the universe, hate to keep talking as if everything is food, but everything becomes food for thought, so it's like being a kid in a candy store with a few cents to spend, is one life, when this "the skys the limit" type of speed up occurs. has to do with extending PUL, the boomarang thing. I have discovered there is a prana feed in of higher thought which produces energy in the cellular structure. in that way, prana is food.
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Then for Little Susie to decide to drop out of this world means that she will find some other potential pathway to real-ize. That is, to make real. So she carries the spark of creativity onward. In that sense, Susie is acting in the person of God, but also as herself. Thus, in this model we have to allow ourselves to be secretly God - But we can't be directly aware of that, or we'd have to stop being individual people.
____
omygod..puns...right again...the other day I coined something I'd like to write on "I don't believe its possible to be completely honest in this world and still remain physical."
look at what Monroe wrote: ...there is nothing here for me now and so my departure is scheduled." thats a partial quote, will have to print the rest for you when I get back home. what Monroe is expressing is similar to what Dave expresses, that to become too aware, that you are god, or to become aware of your creative abilities, leaves no battles with fear to surrmount. Since there are only two emotions, love or fear (ACIM) there remains only Love, as fear is an illusion. god has no fear because god is love and love has no opposite. which leads us to a nonduality state of mind, which leads to no fear...which leads to stability, maybe entropy..still thinking about that one.
_______

There was a young fellow named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster than light.
He took off one day,
In his relative way,
And returned on the previous night.

Oh well - at least it isn't quite as dry, eh Alysia?
___

oh yes, this was not dry Dave. thanks! errr...is this me?



In my estimation, one of the untapped ideas is to use thorium plus a small percentage of uranium in a reactor. This type of reactor can't go into runaway and meltdown, is very stable, and produces very little plutonium.  It's a new technology with fewer economic gains, but would allow every city to have a local generating facility that was safe. That's one answer to CO2 emission. Availability is about ten years to implementation if anyone is interested.
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do u have a patent Dave? this is good idea actually.
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Alan - I think you've got the idea I was working on. It means that we must reconsider our nature, since the implication is that we are wholly spiritual in nature, and that the appearance of obdurate matter is more of an accident. As spiritual beings, emanated by a spiritual Source, we then are not different from God, while at the same time, we are not exactly the same either. Fiat lux, indeed!
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what is obdurate mean? yet I do disagree that we incarnated accidently, I do think we can get caught up in physical in an addictive sense of "trying to do better." I believe we each have between 700 to 1200 lives approximate, general sense, of simultaneous proportion, until full enlightenment and more choice is attained.

nice chatting...love, alysia

dave

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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Possible Cosmic Cycle
Reply #32 - Dec 28th, 2007 at 4:43pm
 
Hi Aysia
"obdurate" means ... Hmmm, it means that the dictionary is upstairs. Oh well - I'll fake it.

That which is fixed, stubborn, immovable, solid and constant without change is obdurate. The ideal fireplug is obdurate, a neighborhood anchor, a place of solace for canines, and an important consideration for my house insurance.

Reincarnation seems to be imposed by our nature through the attachments that we carry into spirit at death. Aside from that, the specifics seem to be stage props so that we can act out our lives. Most of them occur without our efforts on their behalf, so I'd call them accidental. As for reincarnation itself, I've heard too many complaints to think of it as voluntary.

A man said that he had been offered a wonderful healing bath by "Helpers". He wass up to his neck enjoying it when he realized that there was no floor, and the bottom of the bath was just a chute that led to a new life. He had harsh words for the "Helpers" who had fooled him.

Or a person who was just resting and enjoying the spirit world when something like a big suction thing came by and scooped him up.

Or the guy who simply was resigned to his fate as he went off to rebirth, "Oh well, I guess it's that time again."

And then there was the angelic woman who said that she had been leaning over the edge to look at the Earth because it was so beautiful, and she lost her balance and fell into birth.

It seems that most of us would be happier as spiritual beings.

dave

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Re: Possible Cosmic Cycle
Reply #33 - Dec 29th, 2007 at 4:03am
 
thanks Dave. for the new word. we had this question on the other board I go to, "if you could live your life over, would u do it the same way?" or would you want to?

brief sidenote: when in the spirit world getting ready for another dive, things look really great Dave!  Smiley some of us are really eager. maybe even overconfident.

well, would you live your life over the same way? some would answer, oh yes, I had a great childhood, etc. I'd do it over in a new york minute.

ok, I woudn't want the same first 50 years. no way. but I'd agree to do it over if it brought me to the peace of mind i have now, if the first 50 was the price of it.
the sense of knowing is that mistakes don't need repeating and that greater choice in life circumstances increases with evolvement.

I like fooling around with guides...I was probably one of them that put that guy in a chute just before I followed him in...
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Alan McDougall
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Re: Possible Cosmic Cycle
Reply #34 - Dec 29th, 2007 at 5:33am
 
Hi  Here is what Kabbla says about existence, creatin etc

Kabbalah & Mysticism
KABBALAH AND HASIDISM | KABBALAH IN SAFED | GOD’S WITHDRAWAL


God’s Withdrawal
Isaac Luria’s theory of creation.
By Louis Jacobs
This selection from Louis Jacobs’ Jewish Ethics, Philosophy and Mysticism includes a translation from Hayyim Vital’s Etz Hayyim (Treatise 1, Part 2) with a commentary by Jacobs. The passages from Etz Hayyim are in bold, and Jacob’s commentary follows. It is reprinted with permission of the author.



Know that before there was any emanation and before any creatures were created a simple higher light filled everything. There was no empty space in the form of a vacuum but all was filled with that simple infinite light. This infinite light had nothing in it of beginning or end but was all one simple, equally distributed light. This is known as “the light of Ein Sof.”

These extremely difficult meditations are those of Isaac Luria but were written down by his disciple Hayyim Vital. Vital wrote a number of books expounding his master’s theories and they are the major source of books on the Lurianic kabbalah. The Zohar holds that the world was created by means of ten emanations, the Ten Sefirot. The Lurianic kabbalah considers what happened even before these were caused to be emanated. This is more than an effort to explain the ancient puzzle of how creation came to be. By this teaching, Luria wants to explain the continuing relation between the Infinite and the finite, and to lay the groundwork for explaining how evil came into the good God’s creation. Ein Sof (without limit) is the kabbalistic name for God as He is in Himself, i.e. apart from His self‑revelation to His creatures.


Two things have to be said before reading this passage. First, reading although the kabbalists use terms like “before” and “after” in describing Ein Sof’s creative activity, they really think of these processes as occurring outside time altogether. (It is, of course, impossible for us to grasp this idea of existence outside of time, but for the kabbalists, as for some of the philosophers, time itself is a creation.)



Secondly, all the illustrations of a vacuum, an empty space, a line and the like are seen by the kabbalists as inadequate pointers to spiritual realities. They never tire of warning their readers not to take them literally as if there really is, for instance, a space in God. God is outside time and space. Similarly, terms like above and below are only figurative. Unless this is appreciated the whole subject becomes incredibly crude.



There arose in His simple will the will to create worlds and produce emanations in order to realize His perfect acts, His names and His attributes. This was the purpose for which the worlds were created.

In the “simple light of Ein Sof” there emerged a will to create. (Note the way in which it is avoided saying that Ein Sof willed directly, because this is considered as touching on a mystery too deep for human understanding.)



Ein Sof then concentrated His being in the middle point, which was at the very center, and He withdrew that light, removing it in every direction away from that center point.

In the Lurianic kabbalah, creation is only possible by God withdrawing Himself. The logic is simple. Where there is God there cannot be any creatures since these would be overpowered by His majesty and swallowed up, as it were, into His being. This idea of Luria’s is known as tzimtzum (withdrawal).



There then remained around the very center point an empty space, a vacuum. This withdrawal was equidistant around that central empty point so that the space left empty was completely circular. It was not in the form of a square with right angles. For Ein Sof withdrew Himself in circular fashion, equidistant in all directions.

If the “empty space” left after Ein Sof’s withdrawal were to be depicted as a square this would suggest that after the withdrawal Ein Sof is nearer to the center at some points more than others, whereas the circumference of a circle is equidistant from the center at all its points.



The reason for this was that since the light of Ein Sof is equally spaced out it follows by necessity that His withdrawal should be equidistant in all directions and that He could not have withdrawn Himself in one direction to a greater extent than in any other. It is well known in the science of mathematics that there is no more equal figure than the circle. It is otherwise with the figure of a square, which has protruding right angles, or with a triangle or with any other figure. Consequently, the withdrawal of Ein Sof had to be in the form of a circle.

Ein Sof is infinite and it cannot, therefore, be said that He is nearer one point than another. The great difficulty here lies in the whole concept of a limitation of the Limitless.



Now after this withdrawal of Ein Sof (which left an empty space or vacuum in the very center of the light of Ein Sof, as we have said), there remained a place in which there could emerge the things to be emanated, to be created, to be formed and to be made. There then emerged a single straight line of light from His circular light and this came in a downward direction, winding down into that empty space.

Even after God’s withdrawal there has to be something of Ein Sof in the empty space otherwise nothing could exist there (nothing can exist without God’s power). Therefore a line of light (figuratively speaking, of course) is said to wind downward into the empty space. The figure is of a kind of deep hole in the center down into which the line of light winds itself. In the empty space left after Ein Sof’s withdrawal, the various worlds emerged. In the kabbalah there are four main worlds, corresponding to the four infinitives mentioned. These are: 1) The World of Emanation (the realm of the Sefirot) 2) The World of Creation (lower in degree than the former); 3) The World of Formation (lower in degree than the first two); 4) The World of Action (or Making), the world as we know it, the physical universe (or, as many kabbalists understand it, the spiritual source or counterpart of this world of ours). All four worlds are seen as emerging in the empty space or vacuum.

Cool
Alan












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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Possible Cosmic Cycle
Reply #35 - Dec 30th, 2007 at 1:40am
 
Another excellent Kaballistic reference is the Sephir Yetzirah. Similar message, but inclination toward the early form of Tarot and the Tree of Life cosmology.
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