Lucy, Thanks again. I had a look at the site. Looks interesting and when I make my way into town I will have a look at a book store for more info. Having never been polluted by reading a bunch on the spiritual, I look forward to reading what he had to say. Thank you.
Joe

"There is no good, there is no evil.  There is only experience (Robert Monroe)"  "Sieg Heil!"
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The greatest mass murderer in US history is Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahome City Bomber.  Tim was an altar boy in Good Shepherd Catholic Church about 2 miles from where I used to live in Lockport, New York.  When the day of his execution drew near, the national media descended on the Lockport area and virtually camped out on the front lawn of Tim's Dad. There were the usual senstive questions: e. g.  "How does it feel to have a son who is the most hated man in America!"  "How do you feel about your son getting "juiced" next week?"  The attitude of the locals was reported as hostile and uncooperative.  I was in a unique position to understand why.

Tim was remembered as a very normal, likeable teenager, who had served as an altar boy and latern worked at the local Burger King.  His high school teachers remembered him as a sweet young guy that everyone liked.  I knew a woman who had a dating relationship with Tim before he joined the army and was sent off to Desert Storm.  She recalled that he was a good boyfriend--thoughtful, considerate, and fun to be with.  The locals did not want to cooperate with the media because the media were trying to dig up "dirt" on Tim, and the locals knew that no such "dirt" existed.  More importantly, they preferred to remember Tim they way he was before Desert Storm.  When I was a college professor,

I had an extremely polite and hard-working student who took 3 religion courses from me.  In his senior year, it was discovered that he was making a devastating bomb in his dorm room.  I was shocked.  He was the least likely suspect imaginable.

Evil is a great mystery and the human heart screams for an easy explanation.  But the journey towards Evil often goes through a subtle maze of seemingly innocent decisions that ultimately create an evil persona overnight.   We must resist the temptation to trivialize the complexity of this journey into darkness.  Those who have studied that Nazi Holocaust in depth are most struck by the sheer banality of the mounting evil and the difficulty of grasping the cruelty of the Nazi guards from the perspective of the background and upbringing of the German soldiers involved.  

Don

Berserk2 wrote on Dec 20^th, 2007 at 3:50pm:


So true, Don. Does innocence exist, for anyone? It seems to be a very fleeting thing in a human life.

It is so important that we try to remember that there but for the grace of God go I.  However, to remember this with true humility is very difficult at times, for each of us.

In fact, it seems to be even more important to reach the conclusion eventually that "there go I."

love, blink

My apologies to the board.
Joe

Theres quite a bit of Testosterone being sprayed here for the moment and that demonstrates exactly how a "harmless intent" can get out of hand and hurt many in the process - I believe it was the threads whole intention to begin with, to show the difference in peace, understanding, and view trading with the goal of trying to see what the Hitler regime did wrong.

Are the testosterone sprayers trying to "run me off" by having a peeing contest? If so, your doing a pretty good job of it. Can we agree on allowing other peoples views be it whatever it may be, to simply be accepted in an unconditional way?


Nanner

Joe,
the apoligy you wrote to the board I find should be farmost directed to Justin, you were referring to him as being an A-hole and if thats the case then I must like A-holes. Which is fine by me. I find he contributes very broad minded and adds a great deal of carisma to the topics he answers on, his view points are of equal importance to me as yours providing these are non-distructive to the concept of communication. So I just hope you take a moment to reflect where your anger really comes from instead of what happened in that thread.

If you were my biological brother I would right about now ask you to go change your tampon, but since your not I`ll settle for "please go blow your nose, it`ll clear your head abit honey"..

We are here constructively speaking to each other about some pretty sticky subjects and its just not okay to disrespect an opinion. Speak against it yeah, but not disrespect.

I`d really like to hug both but I`m affraid I`d get hit.. Think about it for a min.

Love,
Nanner

  Hi Joe, i apologize to you if i am in error about the possibility that i brought up.   Please try to understand that its only recently that i've become more fully aware that there are those in the psychical/government/private interest world who try to mess with some people.   This has made me a bit more wary and suspicious than i normally would be with my Jupiter Rising, Sun Merc CON trine Jupiter, Leo Rising in Sag. decant, Aquarian Venus in 7th almost exactly sextile Neptune.
  I'm basically an open and trusting person, or have strong tendencies to same, but if you get messed with, manipulated, deceived, etc enough in your lives, like i have, then you begin to keep your eyes and ears more open and discriminating.   Thankfully, despite all my really challenging experiences with people in this life and in others, i still basically love people and look for the good in life and in others.

  I've gotten repeated guidance in relation to the above 2nd sentence issue and i'm not going to start mistrusting my own guidance, or my Twin Soul's, at this point.   I may not be interpreting completely accurately, but the general gist is pretty straightforward and obvious at this point. 

  Hence, i'm a little more suspicious of people i don't know, and especially those who say they have strong spiritual beliefs but who argue with me that eating meat is ethically fine and spiritual, start asking me all kinds of questions which i know aren't just purely honest curiosity, etc.   

   So, let's consider a hypothetical situation for a moment, with all the above in mind.   Say you were really Joe M. and that Joe M. truly was someone who still works for the gov. or some private and corrupt self/materialistic interest group and his job is to mislead people about spiritual and earth changes info or to uncenter those unusually spiritually attuned, do you think they would really say "hey it's me folks" if someone said that this was possible out loud and in public?   
  Come one, that would be a little too naive of me to believe, wouldn't you say.    These deceptive forces are just that, deceptive, and i've realized that the best way to deceive people, is to inject just enough truth so that it may ring a person's Soul bells, but to twist the rest, and otherwise lie and manipulate.  My sense is that Joe M. is a very bright, intelligent, very perceptive in some ways, and cunning guy.  I'm good at reading people's auras, and especially so when in physical proximity to them, which i have been with Joe.

  Also, I asked him a direct question about the nature of time while at TMI, and his response was totally b.s. and inaccurate.

   As far as Yeshua goes, his name, and the fact that i vibe with my name having a more ah type sound, its not because i over identify with him (in some respects i do sometimes, but not in this particular case), but because it seems to fit better and i'm energy sensitive enough to know such things like that.   Ah seems to be a feminine vibration, and i'm very in touch with my feminine side.   Hence why my  guy friend who is gay, nicknamed me Justina and only partly jokingly.   

  Dunno, does that bother you?   And what if i did identify myself with Yeshua?   Since i don't believe i'm him and i know i don't live up to his example, and just look to him as my teacher and example, what's the big deal?    Fact of the matter is, i know i do have deeper karmic and spiritual connections to him, and in a sense everyone has spiritual connections to him (whether they know it or not), so really its no big deal either way.   I just really, really love and respect the guy, i respect him much more than i respect Cayce, Monroe, Moen, etc.    He did what none of them did.

  When i first started the in home Gateway set, i started having dreams about both Yeshua and Christ.   I've been intensely attracted to him and his teachings since age i hit puberty, and i was raised in a non religious and laid back environment, and my first deeper studies were into Eastern belief systems primarily.   I don't think i would have had the experiences i've had with him, if he thought i would start to think of myself too much in an egotistical "special" kind of way.   Yeshua goes out his way to deconstruct such limiting notions in others.   He realized i could spiritually handle it, just as my Greater self realized i could handle all the "past life" info i've gotten and which has been verified in many, sometimes even surprising to me, ways.

  Joe, perhaps you are projecting a bit onto me.   Many spiritual teachers or guides have noted that oft what we find fault with and emotionally judge in others, or something about someone that makes us irked about them, is something we really dislike in ourselves.   Something to think about perhaps.

  Again, sorry if i am wrong about you, but please realize that i have good reason to be a bit wary and suspicious of some right now.  Maybe if you have had the experiences and guidance that i've had, you also may be more inclined to be more tolerant of this?

  Either way, i didn't say that i definitely believe that, and that you must be Joe M., i just brought up the possibility.   I do find it interesting that i've seen you toot his horn rather blatantly a few times, but then later say more critical things about him when i directly pointed out some things.    I'm a pretty observant guy, and like Joe M., a Capricorn Sun.   We're good at reading between the lines and seeing things that many others miss, kind of like Scorpio Sun in that respect.
Putting the whole Joe thing aside for now, you seem to be quite familiar with TMI and all, would you say that there are gov. connections to same right now?   Would you say that the U.S. government is completely benign, spiritual, and loving in its practices?  Would you say that it lacks corruption, materialism, strong ego and selfish tendencies?

   Dunno, these are important questions in relation to the Whole of the issues that i've brought up.   There may be others who are also aware of the same things that i'm aware of, but apparently they are either brighter than i LOL or have more fear in them.    Seeing as i hold Yeshua as my teacher and example, i would be a false student if i lived my life in any lesser way than he did, and he had no fear in him regarding being harmed.