I had a problem with Theosophy and Leadbeater, although they have a good basis in Kashmir Saivism. But I tend to be intolerant, and perhaps unfair, when I disagree with "just so" stories without a little more meat. If we look back beyond both Mme Blavatsky's Tibetan days and her Saivist philosophy,  then we get to the common Eastern philosophical themes. Leadbeater seemed to me to be too cute - but that probably says more about me than him. Still, his "spirilae" and vortical flows didn't tell me much.

Googling Cozzolini produced a Noetic Sciences site, with a summary of what appears to be another scientific approach to reality. I suspect that we can find as many explanations as there are explainers, and I'm certainly not a be-all end-all myself. I think the point is to realize that we arrived here naturally, and that there is nothing unnatural about our capabilities. We lack understanding in some cases, but that's not because it doesn't work, but because we haven't completed the necessary analysis as yet.

The only thing that I personally can tell from this level is that I find it easier to deal with ideas that begin in nothing, and develop into a reality, as opposed to ideas the begin in our everyday reality and try to deduce void initial conditions. I recall some years back how excited I was to discover that there was a way to connect nothingness to everything - and today I marvel at the nearly infinite number of different ways to do precisely that same thing, and to do it in ways that hadn't occurred to me. It's like being a happy cabbage and suddenly discovering that I'm living in a rose garden.

dave

Hi Nanner-
I personally believe that what we need first to do is to decide on what we're trying to show. If you're a physicist and are trying to build a cosmology that explains your work, then you need to take your work as a starting point. For the meta-physicist, the same is true, but it's a different place to work from. It's either starting with roses and trying to explain dirt, or starting with dirt and trying to explain rosebuds.

My practical choice is always to start with my experiences because I have them and have no doubt about their existence. But in terms of developing theory, I would prefer to start with emptiness, since I'm certain that emptiness is available if we go past the everyday definitions of reality and back to the instant prior to ts beginning - or simply go outwards in the direction of expansion, until we have passed beyond the defined world into the nowhere that it expands into.

As to the number of levels, the 7 chakra system is probably basic to most ideas. It thus is a favorite way to express sequences.

I don't see any reason that any eigenset (fundamental collection of terms that can be turned into any of the other needed sets of the same order, by simply multiplying its terms) would be rejected.  For example, a pair is a basic set, and that gives us live or dead, this world or spirit, and all the other two-way comparisons. With three aspects we have dynamic, relational and substantive terms that can handle the world. For seven terms we can get the basic properties of elementals, as well as gravity and charge. And the next group has 127 members, which is enough to define elements, and which can be analyzed in terms of dynamics to yield the entire atomic particle zoo as a geometric description. (This is recent work by Garrett Lisi.) This is about the level at which this kind of model describes creation of ideas.  And if we go bigger, the next group has 1.7E38 members, and relates how chemistry can create asteroids and planets etc. The next numeric level of organization exceeds the physical universe in number. However, its subsets can be mapped to show correspondence to some degree with the number of galaxies and clusters. That is a five level system based on everyday reality.

There are some systems of analysis that are arbitrary. For example, adding up your birthdate, the time of day, and the number of spots on your dogs nose, we can play with numerology. Or we can force our observations to fit into an arbitrary framework proposed by someone else and based on some other criteria - like the Christian model of one-chance-all-or-nothing-forever - or we could force our data into a form that would fit the expected Egyptian journey of the soul after death. And then we have astrology, in which case we have 8 fairly major planets, plus an uncertain number of additional fat asteroids in the Kuyper Belt that are trying to act like planets, and an equally inappropriate relationship might be made from a Tarot deck etc.

It is because these models each carry their own freight, as well as implications for their future evolution, that it seems important to discover their source. That has nothing to say about whether a model is "right" or not, but simply what it is trying to tell us.

Unfortunately, Alan is willing to post, but not to explain - or at least not as yet.

dave

"Hellow Dear Forum members, I will undertake to find out where I got this article and let you all know asap. Here is another article that has the same theme, by "Friderick Myers"



According to Frederick Myers, stage one is the earth dimension. As soon as the earth experience has been thoroughly comprehended – either through reincarnation or through the exchange of experiences with others in other dimensions – the soul may proceed to dimensions beyond the reach of the material dimension.

Stage two is called the Intermediate Realm or Hades. This is the spiritual condition, which is referred to in the ancient religious traditions as "hell." This is the realm where all must go upon experiencing the earth realm. Here, memories of our entire past lives flash before us. Whether or not this experience is "hellish" depends upon the memory of the particular person. If it contains sinister episodes and terrifying experiences, these will drift by the person's vision along with the more joyful happenings.

Some persons begin at this stage to feel what is called "the earth pull, the birth pull" and the person may decide to return to stage one, the earth realm. For others, stage two is brief and is followed by entry into a more stable world, which is stage three, the Realm of illusion.

The Realm of Illusion is a dimension where things may be created with the mind and shaped by the direct action of the imagination. Though a person may linger in this stage for undeterminable period of time, an eventual decision must be made. The soul returns either to earth or to progresses to stage four. Before leaving, however, the more enterprising souls may have an opportunity to experience one of the great wonders of this dimension of consciousness – a tour through some section of "The Great Memory." Just as on earth, one may go to a library and see newsreels of important earth events of history, so, in stage three, one may witness any event that occurred from the beginning of human experience. The Cosmic Memory has recorded everything that has ever happened.

Stage four is the Realm of Color. This dimension is an indescribably lovely existence. Here one must leave behind all rigid intellectual structures and dogmas, be they scientific, religious, or philosophical. An infinite variety of new sounds, colors and feelings are experienced here and souls find a much wider freedom to function with highly energized intellect and spirit. If, in this dimension, the soul becomes free from the earth pull, it is qualified to experience cosmic ranges beyond earth's confines, such as the next dimension.

Stage five is the Realm of Flame. In this dimension, the soul acquires a body of flame, enabling it to tour the stellar universe without being harmed by its temperatures and turbulence and to return with a fuller experience of these cosmic reaches. (I like this as my nde was similar)

Stage six is the Realm of Light. Souls in this dimension are matured spirits, having lived through, with conscious comprehension, all the aspects of the created universe. They are capable of living now without form, of existing as white light in the pure thought of the Creator. They have joined the immortals, thus fulfilling their final purpose of the evolution of consciousness.

Stage seven is the Realm of Timelessness. In this dimension, souls enter full partnership with God. This dimension is of an advanced spiritual nature, so close to the ultimate essence of creativity that no adequate vocabulary has yet been evolved to describe it, and hence it is difficult to communicate to earth-level beings.

Very very true
Alan