Good Day All , i was a conversation with a friend of mine the other day regarding when its your time to leave the physically world its your time.

When we start our physical lives is there a set time when we depart this world for the next. I mean people living in a country at war have a far greater chance of dieing then those living on a tropical Island for example. So if that same person who was living in a war torn country left to his/her island paradise would they still die at the same time no matter were that person lived.

So if its your time then no matter what one does its not going to change. At first i tended to agree but now im not so sure. We all have free will so cant i determine the when , were outcome of my dimise rather then starting of with x amount of time.

Hello rNick,
welcome to the board. Glad to see yet another interesting food for thought topic.

Looking at the subject from the stand point of a human life ergo "mind", yes I agree a person has a greater chance of being "one of the quickly baked things" at war. However when I learned to look at it thru my spiritual eye, I didnt mean "religious" eye, but spiritual one, I began understanding that "life on earth" appears to me as a very cool and simply never ending stunning system of things. Let me explain using everyday examples first. I am better at that. I dont know your age, but I am assuming that you`ve gathered a few years so that you can definately follow my drift okay.

Have you ever noticed that when bills come in, they usually come more like "in freaking herds" sometimes, then all of the sudden, it slows down, then maybe stop all together and suddenly pick up again and swamp the poop out of your mailbox again.

Or the media, I`ve paid attention to the news moreso the last 5 years, than in previous years and I have noticed that when 1 plane crash takes place, that shortly thereafter all of the sudden every other day another plane crash is in the news.

Latest Stories, mothers killing their babies in germany. About 7 weeks ago I heard the first incident, then all of the sudden I turn on the morning news and have heard - no joke - at least one or two cases everymorning.

As if LIFES ENERGY attracts same situations. Hmmmm    What has this to do with your subject? Well....

If looking through your spiritual eye you will see that the "soul" sets the time and place for the crossover in the afterlife, because your soul is a part of a "system", your soul is 1 very important part of a "whole" (call it God, Gott, Allah or whatever you may want to call it) and so the stage is also set for all concerned, not just for you personally. Your family experience emotions, your friends, your neighbors, your animals, your employer and co-workers - everyone whom is involved with your physical death "experiences" "something" "because of your death. And your soul decided that it wanted to be born "to those parents, with those brothers and sisters in that city & country". I know that sounds very complex however it makes sence to me that we have a genious creator at work here and I dont know if I brought it across understandably. I am sure someone will correct me - if my opinion is incorrect.

So yes, the people in Africa dieing like flys may have the purpose to effect the mass consciousnessover the issue "world hunger", for if the mass lived "consciously" then there would be no deaths there in those amounts. We live in the age of technologie - there need notz be hunger - period- The people in Irak may have died because "the mass" was suppose to understand what its like to "live under such conditions of a dictator". The people of WW2 may have lost their physical life for the purpose of "mass consciousness" that the rest of the world "should not allow another war like that". Our souls condition and consciouness grows to perfection.

An example to that last statement : When we are "born", we can`t do squat right? Well thats about all we do really, with the exception of leaking, drink mommys milkshakes and try to focus our eyes on who`s the heck saying "gooochy-gooochy -goo cute little baby" now, but over the years we "ripen", we learn, we experience all kinds of issues in life...

When we are 14 and have fallen in love for the first time, we really think the world is coming to an end when we get dumped, if it happens several times - we adapt to the fact that "life goes on", because after the last time it went on too. When we are 50 we tell our grandkids, "honey, it`s okay - you`ll be okay" and usually know its true.

Our "consciousness" grew to perfection. The soul works that way too I suppose - its trying to experience to perfection. What a better way to do it?

So yes, in the stage of life on earth our souls take their part and one soul may want to be a person in Irak, whom lives for 21 earth years, gets married, has two children with his wife and then gets shot in the head by a military fella in front of her, him also being 21, two children same age, with a wife waiting on him at home. Well - the scenerio is obvious. The first man is physically dead, that woman is hurt emotionally for the rest of her earth days, the children grow up and then... (fill in the blanks) Its all about "what the soul wants to experience" in its life here and it chooses "epoches" "places and goals" according to its own wishes.

Collectively speaking "we are all helping each other" through mass consciousness. Bruce Moen is no coincidence, I`m no coincidence, neither are you or anyone else.  

The timer is set everytime a new and to add to Bruce`s thread remark: The oven ain`t gonna quit working, it has the best ingeneurs making sure its always got the best `baking tempature.

Sorry it got a little long.
Sending good thoughts,
Nannerghost

Hi rNick,
I did not understand that statement, pls. explain what you mean so I can comment.
Quote: But has we have freewill and im saying this in inverted commons has a large amount of countries a persons free will well lets just say does not exist.

Re: Freewill.
Freewill in my understanding is the "variability to choose" - yes, you`re soul can choose where, when and how. Your soul opted to live in South Africa, inorder to experience whatever it is experiencing. Your soul may have planned for your human life to be a part of a great movement of consciousness, or even to move to another country after experiencing life in South Afrika. Your time of physical death is pre-destined I believe. There are no variable options, as the "soul" has a mission and its mission is called "experiencing". In the human consciousnesslevel no one "knows" the time or date of crossover.

Example: Using an automobile and its driver. Your soul is the driver and your human life is the automobile.
Szenerio:  
a) your "driver" decides to take a trip whereever he wants to with his car. Your auto drives down a long scenic country road, your driver & your car experience the beauty of the wild life, trees, flowers on side of the road, the holes in the road too - the car drives over a broken coke bottle and thus bursts the tires. The car can no longer continue in this scenrio. The driver chooses what happens next.

b) your "driver decides to take a trip into the city at night, your driver & your car experience the many city lights, all the wonderful side streets, sees the 1000`s of other cars, hears beeping of horns and looks at all the hugh buildings side by side, the car collides with another car, the motor gets mashed. The car can no longer continue in this scenrio. The driver chooses what happens next.

In other words the "driver" ergo "soul" made the first choice of movement for the "car" ergo "body" and the driver will make the continued choice of movement for the car.

re: Karma:
I find in such, that Karma is determined by "consciousness" of the task ordained by the soul. Keeping in mind that the "soul" sets the rules in each incarnation, one can hardly say that because your soul decided to live in S. Africa, maybe with internet connection, food, water, light and love this go around, that it shall be "punished" and have to live in a 3rd world country in the next incarnation, where there is no internet connection, food, water, light and love.

Whereby here I must say that the term "3rd world country" lays in the eye of the beholder of standards and that again is "human way of thinking". A country without electric, internet, modern technologie doesnt neccessarily mean that they are "poor" matter of fact the souls of these people are "enorm rich" as they do not clasp onto "material" things but rather clasp onto toegtherness, love & understanding helping another. So WHO exactly sets the standards on that freaking discription anyway.

I rather would say, that Karma has to do with WHAT AND HOW YOU ACT OUT THAT WITHIN YOUR INCARNATION. Again "freewill".

Your soul is here the driver again. No matter what situation one is in, when looking at it thru a spiritual eye try to dig underneath ones own skin color, denomination, birthplace, titel and gender and identify oneself as a "soulbeing" instead of a "humanbeing", accept that oneself is part of a beautiful incarnation and is just as important as the next incarnated soul one meets, sees or hears about. That oneself contributes to the "whole" by "being" and that one has incarnated inorder to "ripen". In the process of "ripening" one reaches "consciousness" and one "reaps" Karma, I would think. It is the "consciousness level" which determines if one has understood the many ways to understand AGAPE. And AGAPE is the only lesson there is.


Nannerghost

rNick,
I firmly believe its not that simple, although I would just love to give the subject two colors or two words to choose from. black/white - right/wrong. But I dont think it works that way.

I believe part of "consciousness" is taking responsibility for actions through experiencing, for the conscious experiencing is what ripens the soul.  Its not as easy as saying: "okay, I`m goinf to run down to the next soul searcher and find out thru regression what my last 5 lives were like, so I can balance out the stuff in this life"... ergo Karma Reading.

We have to learn to "feel" again, do you understand what I mean. "WE" tend to hand someone a "tissue" when they cry, instead of telling them its okay to "cry", do it I`m here for you. "We" tend to teach our little babys "big girls (or boys) don`t cry" instead of teaching and allowing them to "feel what they are upset about". "We" tend to walk away from a stranger sitting on the street in torn clothing instead of "simply asking that person" can I help you in any way? (We turn away because we are ashamed of our society and that people like that even exsist) "We" teach our children "not to speak out" because they don`t see us "speaking out" when our country goes to war with other countries. WE don`t "FEEL" anymore, as if we are lame inside until all shit hits the fan and we get a wake up call from nature.

What Karma are we seariously reaping here, yes its an indiviual thing, this Karma - but its developed collectively.

Example:
By Adolf Hitlers regime killing all those people in WWII, did he reap bad or good Karma? Lets look at possible equal perspectives, without personally judgement.
a) Millions of innocent people left there lives - of many countries - (Our History books tend to only mention one group of people that died, but there were so so many more.
b) A mass consciousness had been born after the war.  A mass movement towards betterment in tolerence took place in europe ever since. Without that war it could hae never been reached.

Did Hilters regime do good or bad Karma?
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Even though President Bush is not very much liked in european countries anymore, the Irak ordeal, Gulf war N° 3, etc.

a) Some innocent people have left there lives.
b) A mass consciousness is being born.  A mass movement in shift of consciousness is happening everytime another person says "NO to this and any war!" People are coming together.

Will Bush`s regime reap good or bad Karma?
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See, I try so hard to reach for higher spiritual thinking - I love the "people" of the world you see. I dont care if they are black/white/green/red/ catholic/christian/islam/mormon I try to go beyond their "outer masks" and find the good in them, the contribution which they give to the term "LOVE" and treat them accordingly and sometimes I snatch a knot in their tail too   but I`m forgiven for it because its done lovingly.

So Karma to me is a "ruler" which has a type of mathematical inch skale which we have not yet learned to understand, for what might appear to someone else as being "a bad deed for one individual" may have the "longterm effect of positivity for a mass"...  What does Karma say then "one deed was  1/2 good and one 1/2 bad"?

I do what I feel has positive side effects in life,  for I "feel" it is the right thing to do at the time, not because I feel I will get good karma, I feel that would be like trying to cheat in a game. I recognise the fact that Karma exsists, so I make sure to try everyday to remind myself that "the person standing infront of me I might have hurt very badly in a previous life, so heres my second chance to set it right!"  

I don`t want to cheat, my soul wants to "experience"....
Hugs to ya,
Nanner

I'm not sure if this is an accurate interpretation in Buddhist terms, but my sense is that our lives are pretty heavily pre-determined if we live throughout without transcending ego - that it's pretty much a clockwork, albeit an incredibly complicated network of cause and consequence mediated by karmic tendencies.

The ability of astrology for example to quite accurately predict individual tendencies while anathema to some tends perhaps to bear this out.

We on the other hand can it seems influence this if we choose  - perhaps to the extent that we can transcend selfishness and ego in the way we respond to karma influence our life path.

Quote: 'it helps explain why the USA is much more Christian than most European countries'. I'm unsure what to make of that. Perhaps if you term Christian as membership of churches defined as Christian in some specific technical sense.

What's the basis of this view Don???

Hi , when one is living on the physical plane that person is an individual and is in control of his own thoughts and thus actions , again I say this in inverted commons has we know that on the physical there is those in power who like to control those that are not.

If I commit a crime on the physical and get caught them I shall receive some form of punishment , one reaps what they sow. People like Hitler was a individual he knew what he wanted and even if those that died , died for the greater good to show the world the evils of war But Hitler made his choice then surely that person must have some form of retribution .

If our purpose while living on the physical is to learn and experience new things , but our ultimate aim is to give unconditional love and to progress back to the source / god. To be rewarded so to speak then why is there not a unreward for those that are bad. For every Hitler there’s a Gandhi for every Nelson Mandela there’s a Robert Magabe , people in similar positions different choices. While im sure we all believe that a Gandhi was pure and good and shall progress in the afterworld while shall people like Hitler not suffer in the afterworld and his next few thousand lives.

You make your choices so you have to live with the outcome.

Regards rNick