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Question: Is there a hell in the afterliffe?



« Created by: Alan McDougall on: Dec 6th, 2007 at 7:17am »

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Is hell a reality in the afterlife? (Read 3947 times)
Alan McDougall
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Is hell a reality in the afterlife?
Dec 6th, 2007 at 7:17am
 
I am not trying to promote any religion, but put Christianities view below as an example."I think if the list Angry below is really true it is horrifying beyond comprehention



Annihilation vs. Eternal conscious torment
Which fits better?
"Once burnt - always burnt" or
"eternal conscious punishment"?      Annihilation      Eternal conscious punishment
The devil and his angels:
Rev 20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.       


Wicked men:
Rev 14:10-11 he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."      


Punishment that goes on forever!
Mt 25:46 "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."      


Hell is a place of darkness reserved, not annihilation
Jude 13: "for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever" "outer Darkness" Lk 13:27      


Hell is banishment away from God’s presence
2 Th 1:9 And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord      


Hell is banishment away from God’s presence
"there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth there when you see Abraham in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being cast out." Mt 22:13      


Hell is banishment away from God’s presence
"outside are the dogs" Rev 22:15
"assign him a place with the hypocrites" Mt 24:51      



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Alan McDougall
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PhantasyMan
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Re: Is hell a reality in the afterlife?
Reply #1 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 9:25am
 
I think we have to take to word "Forever" cautiously.  For me it's:  It will last forever until something is done within us. 

And what to do?   Make the choice to get out of it, and make _effort_ to reverse the inertia that put you there (focusing   toward the choice we've made)
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Re: Is hell a reality in the afterlife?
Reply #2 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 3:21pm
 
Alan:

You might find the attached interpretation of the book of revelations interesting.  Forum member Berserk (Don) who is a Biblical scholar supports it (I don't know if he supports every single word). According to this interpretation, John was speaking about things that were happening when the book of revelations was written, not some unknown time period far in the future.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/gentry-ken_pp_02.html



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pratekya
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Re: Is hell a reality in the afterlife?
Reply #3 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 4:34pm
 
  Hell only makes sense to me if there is still some choice involved in the afterlife.  Otherwise I don't think you can get around the problem of having eternal suffering for temporary sins - which seems to imply a God that is unacceptably harsh (or just not congruent with a loving God).  That would make God into a worse being than Hitler in my opinion.  At least there was an ending to the torture that Hitler and the Nazis inflicted on others.
  Howard Storm had a great Near Death Experience where he clearly illustrates how someone could choose hell over heaven.  His story is told here, or in his book My Descent Into Death:

http://near-death.com/storm.html

Basically people have a life review and see how themselves and their actions have emotionally / spiritually affected others, and get a sense for how those things have spread in a domino affect throughout living beings.  Howard comes to feel very loved in the presence of Jesus, but realizes he is not worthy to hang out with him, and prefers the company of like minded spirits who tortured him when he first arrived after dying.  He knows he is in the presence of a holy being, and that his own actions have been very unholy, and he knows that everyone else knows this too.  And so he prefers to hang with like minded beings, in a state of hell - like attracts like.  This sort of judgment or hell scene avoids the problem of God being worse than Hitler, and it also correlates with the very great respect that God has given to our free will.  God's respect for our free will is so great that it gives the justification for the existence of moral and natural evil.

Also, I'm not a biblical scholar but I believe the words used in the Matthew passage suggest a very long time, like an age of time, but not necessarily forever.  It may seem like a small difference, but to me it is huge; since it means the difference between God being loving and respectful of our free will or God being a torturer worse than Hitler.
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pratekya
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Re: Is hell a reality in the afterlife?
Reply #4 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 4:41pm
 
Just one more thing to add -  Bruce Moen's description of Max's hell also supports this belief in a hell that has some choice involved.  Max does have the eventual possibility of being freed of this hellish experience but in the place he is in he has very little reason / opportunity to change his thinking in such a way that would draw him out of that spiritual existence into a higher one.  Max is abused but importantly he also engages in the abuse of others, which keeps him bound to that existence.  Only when he has learned to reject the abuse of others has he progressed enough that he can be drawn out.
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dave_a_mbs
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Re: Is hell a reality in the afterlife?
Reply #5 - Dec 6th, 2007 at 7:23pm
 
Regression work has never discovered evidence for a hell. However, there is excellent evidence that those who feel like they need to be tormented get their wish, and those who are too proud to accept God, or even their fellow beings, wind up in their own self-imposed isolation.

Considering how many savants and idiots have conspired to produce the Bible, I'd say that the descriptions are remarkably close to the actual truth.

The chronic negativity arises in large part from the severe conditions of life in arid regions. is is tempered as conditions improve. As an example, the Arab historian, Ibn Khaldoun, in his Muqqadimah, stated that society, with its social limitations to freedom, occurs only because we cannot live as individuals apart. In more fertile Greece, Aristotle's maritime biology emphasized cooperative existence. In luxurious India, it seemed self evident that God provides everything in bountiful proportion.

Thus, the sense of danger and finality arise in part from the tradition of 5000 years of persecution, supoprted by physical and social conditions and history. Take away the "forever" and replace it with, "so long as they remain unchanged" and we have precisely what people have been reporting in regression.

dave
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betson
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Re: Is hell a reality in the afterlife?
Reply #6 - Dec 8th, 2007 at 11:16am
 
Greetings,

I like polls for the overview they are capable of giving. But when I tried asking
some questions using polls in the past, turn-out was light, so I asked why. People
then responded that they felt afterlife issues are more complicated than a few choices
can reflect.
(On this poll I tried to make my answer fit my beliefs by checking several.)

What I'm pointing out for the new guy  Smiley  is that it's the format that's a problem
for some and to not to take low turn-out personally.

Bets


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There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Shakespeare
 
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LaughingRain
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Re: Is hell a reality in the afterlife?
Reply #7 - Dec 8th, 2007 at 3:16pm
 
Hi Alan I like all the responses here in regards to your poll. I chose hell is in the mind and I see that selection is in the lead. most interesting.

I believe we are capable of building our own afterlife situation by the thoughts we generate while here and now in this place we call C1. Consciousness level one, waking mind, also known as limited perception mind.
during meditation, different levels of the mind, dimensions of that are accessed. there is a concept we could call it little mind and big mind or mind/Mind.

I have perceived we are when not in a body or C1, we are energy systems of a mind/Mind units of consciousness and carrying around our experiences which generated our unique perceptions, and these include self image, as well our entire ego structure we have made in our life. we are all different, like snowflakes, unique, all are like designs and patterns.

I have not surfed outward to view a hell yet there have been times in my life when I, as well I'm sure some others here, have thought that they were visiting hell right now, here, while still yet in the body. In hopes to avoid feeling THAT bad, one learns to generate the higher thoughts through meditation and develop as we have been told, a love for our brothers and sisters so that they won't sink into hell areas. it is a development project of the soul. so thats why I picked hell is in the mind.
Someone already mentioned god gives free will of choice where to focus the mind. I heard a tale of lost souls, where we may presume go into some sort of hell, but we cannot know what that is like unless we find them or join them. I heard of what could happen only in the most rarest of circumstances to a soul who would be very consistent in choosing to separate their self, during their lifetime, and to adhere to negativity and selfishness to an intense degree, such as a Hitler perhaps, and to never allow love nor understanding enter the mind or heart for what is consistently hated; that this one upon death is caused by his thoughts of separation from the hated thing or persons, to indeed, be as he so wished, isolated in space, floating, alone, and not a thing could this unit do to find others to relate to. this would only apply, I was told in this tale, to perhaps a black magician who was using voodoo to inflict harm over a span of years, it was explained this behavior is what we call evil if applied for years, it is not allowed into the heavens where it could harm others.
so its a self made hell from lack of participating with others in the pure celebration of the life or lives we are privileged, in the end to have. after all, we were never promised a rose garden here, but whatever we may be going through, at the least, we will not lose our souls and we will not be harming life, as that becomes an impossibility after a certain point in the soul's evolution.

we so often have these sort of discussions about hell, about evil. I think the answer would reside in your heart intelligence and having the faith of a mustard seed.

love, alysia

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